Battle of Yarmouk

[Banu Umayyah]

Anything showing the fallacies of the founder of Islam can be speculation only, since all the sources of events from that time are from Islamic sources, which have been heavily censored to show the founder of Islam in good light and cover-up all the falsehoods.
What I was trying to highlight was that the founder of Islam had other access to jewish/christian scriptures other than the divine angle. Islamists claim that the only access was through divine revelation, since the founder of Islam was illiterate and could not read the Jewish/Christian scriptures.

That's fine with me. As long as you don't pretend to have proof.
I don't base my religion on speculation, the Qur'an it self says"And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah , if you should be truthful"
1400 years and not a single Arab Christian or orientalist has risen to the challenge. why?
Its divine. Even the Arab pagan tribes(who glorified them self with eloquence and poetry) when they heard it all they can say it was "magic"(17:13).
You are welcomed to ask any of your islamophobic authors to give it a try.

 

[kobiraaz]

Anything showing the fallacies of the founder of Islam can be speculation only, since all the sources of events from that time are from Islamic sources, which have been heavily censored to show the founder of Islam in good light and cover-up all the falsehoods.
What I was trying to highlight was that the founder of Islam had other access to jewish/christian scriptures other than the divine angle. Islamists claim that the only access was through divine revelation, since the founder of Islam was illiterate and could not read the Jewish/Christian scriptures.



Thats what the Islamists claim to cover up the genecoide of the jews of yatrib. History is written by the victors, who happen to be the muslims. But there are nuggets in the hadiths, even after all the heavy censoring and re-writing to show the founder of Islam in good light, which show that the founder was very unhappy with the Jews for ridiculing him. Also, its well documented that one of his last sermons included anti-Semitism..

Last sermon? Which one?

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Source: Iran Heritage


Persians worship the mono God and they pray to him Five Times a day!

Thanks for the reference, I didn't know that about pre-Islamic Persians. However I am sure that Islam did not borrow from the Persians in this case. Islam is a divine religion, it never borrows from others. All of its laws are the laws revealed by God himself. Sometimes however there are many similarities between religions, including pagan ones because in some cases a degree of the truth manages to survive corruption & alteration. The Jews also pray 3 times a day, & their prayer looks very similar to the Islamic prayer.

 

[Banu Umayyah]

OK.. try out prophet_of_doom. It will a beginning. There are plenty of other sources on the net, showing the true face of the founder of Islam and the early muslims and how they subjugated the other people..

Before you said all sources are heavily edited to put the prophet in a positive light. Now, you say"There are plenty of other sources on the net, showing the true face of the founder of Islam and the early muslims and how they subjugated the other people"
Consistency is my only requirement for debate.


So, if you excuse me I have a delicious steak waiting for me

 

[somebozo]

Thats what the Islamists claim to cover up the genecoide of the jews of yatrib. History is written by the victors, who happen to be the muslims. But there are nuggets in the hadiths, even after all the heavy censoring and re-writing to show the founder of Islam in good light, which show that the founder was very unhappy with the Jews for ridiculing him. Also, its well documented that one of his last sermons included anti-Semitism..

nothing could be a proof of your bigotry here. The above mentioned event comes from neutral source.

If you read the Islamist view on History - they call this event a rightful punishment of Jews and use it as a justification of terrorism against western targets.

I definitely did not present the Islamist view as evident.

 

[kobiraaz]

I guess his favorite website which is full of scholars is Jihadwatch.com

 

[SurvivoR]

Oye hindu shitmaster don't try to cross the line here now you pagan. You can keep your views to yourself but if you think you can come here and ridicule the Holy Prophet with your hateful and biased antics, then you have crossed the line here. Do not let your loathsome enthusiasm fool you that those idols you hold in reverence would be spared.

By the way your last post has been reported.

 

[Tamizhan]

Thanks for the reference, I didn't know that about pre-Islamic Persians. However I am sure that Islam did not borrow from the Persians in this case. Islam is a divine religion, it never borrows from others. All of its laws are the laws revealed by God himself. Sometimes however there are many similarities between religions, including pagan ones because in some cases a degree of the truth manages to survive corruption & alteration. The Jews also pray 3 times a day, & their prayer looks very similar to the Islamic prayer.

Yeah right. But the truth is Mohammed borrowed heavily from previous Christian and Jewish teachings and also from Zoroastrianism.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Yeah right. Mohammed borrowed heavily from previous Christian and Jewish teachings and also from Zoroastrianism.

This allegation has already been refuted by many members on this thread.

 

[Tamizhan]

This allegation has already been refuted by many members on this thread.

Refuted by quoting your own scriptures ?

By saying that Islam was there before Judaism and Christianity and that they were distorted versions of Islam.

Sorry mate history says Islam came a good six centuries after Xtianity and "n" number of years before Judaism.

Anyway there is nothing wrong in creating a religion based on already existing religions. Every religion does that. I dont know what is there to be ashamed of that.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Refuted by quoting your own scriptures ?

By saying that Islam was there before Judaism and Christianity and that they were distorted versions of Islam.

Sorry mate history says Islam came a good six centuries after Xtianity and "n" number of years before Judaism.

Anyway there is nothing wrong in creating a religion based on already existing religions. Every religion does that. I dont know what is there to be ashamed of that.

If you refer to our previous posts, many of the Muslim members here used logic to counter the derogatory allegations made against Islam. I am busy with more important work at the moment & am in no mood to resume this argument. Our religion isn't a copy. You being a disbeliever are obviously not going to agree to that.

By the way, you claim that Islam arrived 6 centuries after Christianity & "n" number of years before Judaism. Now that, is a logical fallacy.

 

[shuntmaster]

If you refer to our previous posts, many of the Muslim members here used logic to counter the derogatory allegations made against Islam. I am busy with more important work at the moment & am in no mood to resume this argument. Our religion isn't a copy. You being a disbeliever are obviously not going to agree to that.

By the way, you claim that Islam arrived 6 centuries after Christianity & "n" number of years before Judaism. Now that, is a logical fallacy.

The logical debate included genocide? The Jews were the founders of Yatrib (now named Medina). They lived there for centuries in peace, like Jews all over Arabia, who had spread throughout the world after the Romans dispersed them from Israel in 74AD. Then they give refuge to the founder of Islam and his small bunch of followers, who were persecuted by their own people in Mecca. The Muslims were so dependant on the Jews that they used to face Jerusalem to pray, just like the jews of yatrib did in rememberance of their glorious past. Within a few years all the Jews of Yatrib and its surrounding areas were completely wiped out, and the Islmic Qibla was changed from Jerusalem to Mecca. Arabia gets completely wiped out of any Jews within a few years after the death of the founder. All this we are made to believe happened because the Muslims were purely acting on self-defence. What a load of BS.

 

[shuntmaster]

Before you said all sources are heavily edited to put the prophet in a positive light. Now, you say"There are plenty of other sources on the net, showing the true face of the founder of Islam and the early muslims and how they subjugated the other people"
Consistency is my only requirement for debate.


So, if you excuse me I have a delicious steak waiting for me

Yes .. heavily edited and censored to hide most of negative aspects of founder of Islam. But the facts of history cannot be changed and researchers can dig out the truth from the available sources. Even the islamic sources give plenty of indirect and a few direct evidences from which the scholars can deduce the real picture. In some cases it is direct comparison of the Islamic version of the events with the original jewish/christian scripture version of the same. Questions like why did the founder of islam tell his followers to purge all jews from Arabia, if he had only problems with jews of Yatrib, gives us a clue what he was afraid of the jews.

I have tried beef steak many times. But I like pork chops better.