Battlion25
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Interesting keep this thread alive and give us piece for piece information TS.. Add tank battles watch on the title
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Abrams is brand new because they don't have the tank, they can give to Ukraine that can do without the DU armor and pull all the sensitive equipment, they are made to export standard, maybe watered down but it would still on par with Iraqi or even Saudi order, may not be the level of Poland and Australian (the new A2, not the old A1) level.Few things:
- Ukraine is receiving older Abrams and Leopard 2s that are at least 2 decades old.
- Majority of Russian tanks (T-73B3, T-80BVM) are also just refurbished and upgraded tanks from the 1980's.
Not exactly a high tech battle
The west, bar from the UK, never looks into Armour in tank, yes, it is enough to take 1 or 2 hit in order to survive, but never being forefront of battlefield technology. Western doctrine called for a maneuver warfare, which is what Combine Warfare being a part of. I have just talked about a lot about Tank and Drone on the other thread about Pakistani Army VT-4, so I am not going to repeat what or why tank is valuable in the west.Like it or not, Western tanks can do. They have superior armour, can operate fully at night, have laser targeting, use an array of missiles depending on the target and are accurate over large ranges, and are accurate whilst on the move. The russian tanks can't do any of that. Plus, they're easy to maintain and repair. And the Leopard 2's armour is far superior to the T72. They're heavy MBT's whereas the T72 is more of a medium tank.
InterestingAbrams is brand new because they don't have the tank, they can give to Ukraine that can do without the DU armor and pull all the sensitive equipment, they are made to export standard, maybe watered down but it would still on par with Iraqi or even Saudi order, may not be the level of Poland and Australian (the new A2, not the old A1) level.
The west, bar from the UK, never looks into Armour in tank, yes, it is enough to take 1 or 2 hit in order to survive, but never being forefront of battlefield technology. Western doctrine called for a maneuver warfare, which is what Combine Warfare being a part of. I have just talked about a lot about Tank and Drone on the other thread about Pakistani Army VT-4, so I am not going to repeat what or why tank is valuable in the west.
The issue here is, can Ukraine pull the doctrine out when they were relatively new to the Western Style doctrine, because if they are using those Leo 2 or Challenger or even Abrams with the old soviet doctrine, it simply wouldn't work. Because it's ALWAYS doctrine vs doctrine but not tank vs tank. It wouldn't matter if Western tank can shoot straight or can shoot longer, it would be pointless if you mass them up like you would when you do armour assault during Soviet Time, it was not designed to do that.
As I said on the other thread, I wish @Davos is still on this forum, that guy is a kangaroo Abrams driver, and he knows shit tons about tanks, I know probably half of what he knew.
Interesting
The western tanks will not be used by themselves…IMO . During WW11 there was a mix of what were termed light and heavy tanks … for example when the M26 Pershing arrived in theatre they were assigned to units with M4 Sherman’s … basically having a ‘ heavy hitter’ when needed. I am guessing that as the western tanks advance they will be accompanied by Ukrainian T-Series tanks… use the western tanks to punch through …use the soviet era tanks to pour through the hole. The western tanks can take on the Russian tanks… and the Soviet era Ukrainian tanks take on the IVFs and infantry supported by the western supplied IFVs Thats is just my opinion
Iraqi T72 were equipped with 3BM15 APFSDS which was already obsolete by its time. They had no where near the firepower to deal with the Coalition tanks.The firing range of the Abrams, as well as the British Challenger and German Leopard, have a far longer firing range than the most modern Russ tank, the Russ T90. When the US faced Russ supplied tanks in IR aq, they didn't even engage, Americans just backed the tanks up out of their range then picked them off one by one. They didn't lose a single tank to enemy fire, and destroyed every one of their tanks as soon as engaged.
Iraqi T72 were equipped with 3BM15 APFSDS which was already obsolete by its time. They had no where near the firepower to deal with the Coalition tanks.
Ukraine is receiving older Abrams and Leopard 2s that are at least 2 decades old.
Tanks aren't that useful in modern combat. Range is too short. Easy target for guided artillery and drones.
You are talking about a 200 million population country going up against a 20 million people country.
Germany sending Leopard 2A6 its not all 2A4s. 2A6 is fairly modern.
I agree.Russian tanks haven’t done much since the Second World War.
I expect the Armata is another hype train about to be derailed.
We have to agree there,he just goes on posting threads every day and nobody stops him.Everytime you open your mouth, the world becomes a dumber place.
"Thousands" of Tiger tanks? Are you trolling or are you really that ignorant?Too few. Only 14. At Kursk Germany deployed thousands of Tiger tanks.
Iraqi T72 were equipped with 3BM15 APFSDS which was already obsolete by its time. They had no where near the firepower to deal with the Coalition tanks.
You are right.,
Iraqi tanks T72s had no Fcs and horrendous optics, no way to shoot accurately on the move. M1 tanks had the advantage he was able shoot on the move.
T72A was heavily out performed by the Coalition tanks. Coalition tanks had much better FCS, armour, firepower and mobility
That's what I'm showing you guys,the differences between the models Iraq had and Syria had. Just an old pic I had.T72A was heavily out performed by the Coalition tanks. Coalition tanks had much better FCS, armour, firepower and mobility
Ahahah....leave my superboy alone. I enjoy his post. He always makes me laugh and entertained . We need him on this site for fun. Else it's too biring.Thousands" of Tiger tanks? Are you trolling or are you really that ignorant?