UK to send Challenger 2 tanks to Ukraine, Rishi Sunak confirms

[Beny Karachun]

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July War Diary: South Lebanon Turned to Graveyard for Israeli Soldiers, Merkava

In the 30th day of 2006 July War, Lebanon southern border towns witnessed epic confrontations betwee...

english.almanar.com.lb

First massive IED no tank would survive

Second tank - crew perfectly safe, engine was designed to protect the crew, that particular Merkava was hit by a few Kornets to the front and crew compartment was not penetrated.

Third tank is literally a Merkava Mk1 from 1982

Israeli Merkava Tank Is The Most Survivable Tank Of The 21st Century

The Merkava tank has an impressive record at war... and it's probably the tank that has defeated the most Soviet-made tanks in history.

www.theinfographicsshow.com

52 Merkavas got hit by Kornet/Metis/other missiles, only 3 were destroyed by ATGMs, 2 were destroyed by massive IEDs, shows you how superior Merkavas are to the rest of the world's tanks, and especially garbage Russian tanks.

Let's not start talking about the joke that are Iranian tanks lol

 

[MajesticPug]

If you look at Europe - even Poland has turned its back on Germany as a tank provider and is now purchasing them from South Korea the K2 series.

Poland stopped buying from ther Germans because of political reasons and turned to the Koreans because of cheaper prices. No way UK tanks like Challenger 2000 300000 could ever challenge German tanks(period)

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Mistake..
When you see these knocked out it won't be good for British tank industry

dont be so sure. Challenger 2 tanks will wipe the floor with Russian tanks,

 

[Irfan Baloch]

This is never about whether this 14 Challenger 2 made any different. This is done so the world will pile on pressure on both Germany and US to send Leo 2 and Abrams in good numbers.

It wouldn't be enough for the Ukrainian to have the entire stock the British Army is running. They need around 500 modern tanks to turn the ties, to roll over the Russian. And the only country that can make up that number is US and Germany, there are 2000 Leo 2 tanks in Europe and none of them can transfer to Ukraine unless German OK it. And there are more than 1500 Abrams in storage.

500 Western tanks is more than enough to take down the ~1500 ish Russian tanks they are using in Ukraine.

the technological superiority that comes with these Western tanks you just listed outclasses all the available Russian armor. unless the Russians can bring their own version of Javelin tactics or their gunship helicopters these tanks can really rule the battlefield . thee tanks I am sure will come with their own support compliment and layered protection and would already spot and shoot at Russian tanks before the Russians get a chance.

the only problem I see is the time required for training and transition of these tanks into the hands of Ukrainians. unless if NATO provides the ahem "military advisors" as well then it might speed up their deployment in the battlefield.

First massive IED no tank would survive

Second tank - crew perfectly safe, engine was designed to protect the crew, that particular Merkava was hit by a few Kornets to the front and crew compartment was not penetrated.

Third tank is literally a Merkava Mk1 from 1982

Israeli Merkava Tank Is The Most Survivable Tank Of The 21st Century

The Merkava tank has an impressive record at war... and it's probably the tank that has defeated the most Soviet-made tanks in history.

www.theinfographicsshow.com

52 Merkavas got hit by Kornet/Metis/other missiles, only 3 were destroyed by ATGMs, 2 were destroyed by massive IEDs, shows you how superior Merkavas are to the rest of the world's tanks, and especially garbage Russian tanks.

Let's not start talking about the joke that are Iranian tanks lol

dont respond to off topic posts by insecure or ill informed posters.

 

[fitpOsitive]

UK to send Challenger 2 tanks to Ukraine, Rishi Sunak confirms​

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• Russia-Ukraine war

IMAGE SOURCE, GETTY IMAGES
Image caption,
A Challenger 2 tank being used during a military parade in the UK
By Jonathan Beale, Defence Correspondent, and Jasmine Andersson
BBC News

The UK is to send Challenger 2 tanks to Ukraine to bolster the country's war effort, Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has said.
He spoke to Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky in a call on Saturday, during which he confirmed he would send the equipment and additional artillery systems, No 10 said.
Downing Street said the move shows "the UK's ambition to intensify support."
The government is to issue 14 tanks to Ukraine.
Around 30 AS90s, which are large, self-propelled guns, are also expected to be delivered.
President Zelensky has thanked the UK, saying that the decision to send the tanks "will not only strengthen us on the battlefield, but also send the right signal to other partners".
He said the UK's support was "always strong" and was "now impenetrable".
No 10 said that during the call, Mr Sunak and Mr Zelensky also discussed also recent Ukrainian victories, as well as the "need to seize on this moment with an acceleration of global military and diplomatic support".
The announcement came as a series of missile attacks were launched across Ukraine on Saturday, including in Kyiv, Kharkiv and Odesa.
At least 14 people were killed in a strike on an apartment block in the eastern city of Dnipro.

• What military equipment is the world giving?

Mr Sunak said the Challengers, the British Army's main battle tank, would help Kyiv's forces "push Russian troops back".
Built in the late 1990s, the Challenger tank is more than 20 years old, but it will be the most modern tank at Ukraine's disposal. The tanks will provide Ukraine with better protection, and more accurate firepower.
The UK will begin training the Ukrainian Armed Forces to use the tanks and guns in the coming days.
While the donation alone is not considered a game-changer, it is hoped that the UK's move will inspire other countries to donate more modern equipment to help Ukraine.
Chair of the Defence Select Committee Tobias Ellwood said he welcomed the UK "getting serious about the hardware it supplies Ukraine", but that international assistance had been "far too slow".
He told BBC Breakfast: "That's exactly what Russia wants us to do - to remain hesitant.
"Unless we step forward and support Ukraine, Russia will not go away - and that will mean the bully has won."
He stressed that he wanted to see an arms factory in Eastern Poland which would allow Ukraine to procure its own weapons for the long term.

As it stands, Poland has plans to send 14 of its German-made Leopard tanks.
But the tanks, which are in greater supply and used by a number of European armies, need approval from Germany to be exported to Ukraine.
Ukraine also has hopes that the US will supply some of its Abrams tanks, which use the same ammunition as the Leopard.
Earlier this month, Germany and the US agreed to join France in sending armoured fighting vehicles to Ukraine - a move seen as a significant boost to its military's capability on the battlefield.
Shadow defence secretary John Healey said the government had "Labour's fullest backing" for the decision to send the Challengers.
He said: "Modern tanks are crucial to Ukraine's efforts to win its battle against Russian aggression."
Responding to the news of the Challenger tanks, Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said: "As we've said previously, weapons supplies are legitimate targets for Russian strikes."

IMAGE SOURCE, MAXAR TECHNOLOGIES
Image caption,
Soledar has been devastated by Russia's bombardment, as shown by this satellite image from Tuesday
Earlier on Saturday, Russia's military announced it had captured the salt-mining town of Soledar after a long battle, calling it an "important" step for its offensive.
The victory would allow Russian troops to push on to the nearby city of Bakhmut, and cut off the Ukrainian forces there, a spokesman said.
But Ukrainian officials said the fight for Soledar was still going on and accused Russia of "information noise".

UK to send Challenger 2 tanks to Ukraine, Rishi Sunak confirms

Rishi Sunak confirms the tanks will be provided during a call with President Zelensky.

www.bbc.co.uk

The best strategy will be to induct soldiers from India, again.

 

[S10]

I guess we'll be seeing some high flying Challenger 2 turrets soon.

 

[Ali_Baba]

No way UK tanks like Challenger 2000 300000 could ever challenge German tanks(period)

Why not ? The Challenger 2 and Leopards 2's are broadly considered to be peers. The only country right now that can design a tank better than the UK is the USA. The UK/France/Germany will broadly come up with similar solutions. The UK got out of making tanks as it was not 'profitable enough' for them.

The chinese are still making Russian knock offs that will have the same "flying turrent" syndrome that we have seen in Ukraine as they all have the same design flaw - ie the autoloader..

 

[Mrc]

Russians need to either expand the war or call it a day

 

[Ali_Baba]

I guess we'll be seeing some high flying Challenger 2 turrets soon.

You will see Challenger 2's destroyed - for sure - but they will destroy more russian tanks than the other way around. They are instruments of war and designed to do their role until they are destroyed. No one is "afraid" of seeing them destroyed.

Only Russian tanks have the design flaw that leaves them with "flying turret" syndromes btw.

 

[PakFactor]

I guess we'll be seeing some high flying Challenger 2 turrets soon.

First, Russia needs to stop its turrets from popping before you see any Challenger tanks popping their turret. If we go by Iraq War, you will see the Western tanks outclass Russia's field armor and firepower.

 

[S10]

You will see Challenger 2's destroyed - for sure - but they will destroy more russian tanks than the other way around. They are instruments of war and designed to do their role until they are destroyed. No one is "afraid" of seeing them destroyed.

Only Russian tanks have the design flaw that leaves them with "flying turret" syndromes btw.

Sorry can you repeat? Can't heard you over the sound of you being in denial.

 

[Damir877]

ATGM mostly work with defensive force, because the one major sell point for Armor is mobility, I mean by the time you forward deploy your ATGM team in the field, your tank will most likely be 10 or 20 miles away already.

I have laid out the Ukrainian potential war plan with these armor when they come into play above...

The reason Ukrainians are asking for tanks is to go the attack not to defend against Russian tank attacks(Javelin and NLAW already got that job done) which means that when Ukraine armored units go on the attack Russians will be the ones defending the areas they hold.
By the way Russian Kornets are already deployed on the field,they are firing them against armored and unarmored vehicles,fortified positions and even Ukrainian infantry on a daily basis.
The only way the scenario you mentioned could have success is if the Russians are totally unaware and caught by surprise by a sudden massive Ukrainian armored trust.Which I think is unlikely.

 

[jhungary]

The reason Ukrainians are asking for tanks is to go the attack not to defend against Russian tank attacks(Javelin and NLAW already got that job done) which means that when Ukraine armored units go on the attack Russians will be the ones defending the areas they hold.

Already wrote that on the other post I made which was quoted on the last bit of your reply

Ukraine currently can only defend against Russian armour attack, because they basically use the same stuff but less and older, the best Ukrainian can do with them is to put them in a static defensive position. They can't use them to out manuver the Russian.

With the western armour, they have more edge than the Russian armour, now they can leave the over soviet stock behind in their defensive position to blunt the Russian armour and then use the Western Armour to coutner attack or envelope the Russian.

By the way Russian Kornets are already deployed on the field,they are firing them against armored and unarmored vehicles,fortified positions and even Ukrainian infantry on a daily basis.
The only way the scenario you mentioned could have success is if the Russians are totally unaware and caught by surprise by a sudden massive Ukrainian armored trust.Which I think is unlikely.

You don't get it, the only way Ukraine can attack is to let the Russian attack first, absorb their attack, then counter attack their gain, that's what we call "exploiting attacks."

Russia wants the rest of Donbas (may even be rest of Ukraine) so they WILL attack, what Ukrainian can do is to absorb the first wave, and then push the Russian out. Ukraine need to exploit the Russian supply line and sending deep strike into unsuspecting Russian. Ukrainian have the local knowledge, which mean there are going to be hole in the Russian supply line that Russian won't know about. And that is the only attack Ukrainian can mount.

Conventional offensive would require an air force and gunship force that Ukraine does not have.

 

[CLUMSY]

Uh oh

 

[jhungary]

the technological superiority that comes with these Western tanks you just listed outclasses all the available Russian armor. unless the Russians can bring their own version of Javelin tactics or their gunship helicopters these tanks can really rule the battlefield . thee tanks I am sure will come with their own support compliment and layered protection and would already spot and shoot at Russian tanks before the Russians get a chance.

Well, problem with Russia is, their LOG line is very long, and they can't protect them all.

Now, Ukraine does not have the tool to mount mobile assault, which is usually done by tanks and chopper or both. And that is because Ukraine uses baiscally the same tank Russia use, but with a smaller number, which mean the engagement specific would be the same, and if Ukraine move their tank and attack Russian Armour, they will lose because you can't shoot further than them, you can't get more accurate than them, and you can't take more hit than them, and that's come down to Ukraine is using literally the same tank Russian are using.....

With the Western Tank in number, they can put it in some sort of Mobile Armor Brigade doing hit and run behind enemy line. I don't know if the Ukrainian can do something we do back in Iraq, which is to hook an extreme left using our speed and attack Baghdad while by-passing all other objective. Also known as Thunder Run. If they can pull this out, then Melitopol or Svatove is no longer out of reach without a long grind. Russia is spreading very thin in the line right now other than Bakhmut Area, they have devoted majority of their troop in the area trying to overwhelm the Ukrianian defencec in Bakhmut, which mean if the Ukrainian can form some sort of Ironside, they can do deep strike while not diluting their defence.

the only problem I see is the time required for training and transition of these tanks into the hands of Ukrainians. unless if NATO provides the ahem "military advisors" as well then it might speed up their deployment in the battlefield.

My concern is whether or not Ukraine can use those Western Armor as effective as ours, because we trained in one thing and they were trained with other.