UK to send Challenger 2 tanks to Ukraine, Rishi Sunak confirms

[Muhammed45]

dont respond to off topic posts by insecure or ill informed posters.

Tell me, advertising Merkavas in this thread wasn't off-topic also calling the T90s garbage.

If Hezbollah had your mentality then as of now, the overrated Merkavas were ruling the streets of southern Lebanon. Thank God the ill informed people don't believe western propaganda.

 

[LeGenD]

Sorry can you repeat? Can't heard you over the sound of you being in denial.

You should post sources.

1st photo = This is an American M1A1 variant. American operators destroyed it to prevent its capture after getting stuck. Explosives were planted inside the the tank. This effect cannot be achieved otherwise.

2nd photo = This is an Iraqi M1A1M export variant. Iraqi operators destroyed it to prevent its capture after getting stuck. Explosives were planted inside the tank. This effect cannot be achieved otherwise.

But these are uncommon developments.

3rd photo = Turkish Leopard 2A4 loss in the Battle of Al-Bab in Syria. This loss is attributed to an IED.

4th photo = Turkish Leopard 2A4 loss in the Battle of Al-Bab in Syria. This loss is also attributed to an IED.

Leopard 2A4 does have weaknesses:

If Turkey had been using Leopard 2A6s in Syria, would they have fared better? Is the Leopard 2 a flawed design or was the 2A4 model simpl...

Answer (1 of 5): Probably not. Yes this has a lot to do with tactics but it also has to do with design. The primary culprit here is the front ammo storage. The Leopard 2 design places a large ammo rack of 27 rounds in the front of the hull inside the crew compartment. This layout is extremely c...

www.quora.com

But Turkish forces suffered these losses due to poor tactics in the Battle of Al-Bab. Related information in following links:

The £4million German tank being embarrassed in Syria

Angela Merkel's government has come under domestic pressure after images showed Turkey deploying its £4million Leopard 2 tanks during the current offensive in northern Syria.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Battle of Al-Bab: The destruction of Turkish Leopard-2a4 tanks

In this article, we will try to recall the events that led to the destruction of numerous Turkish Leopard-2A4 tanks during the battle of Al-Bab in Syria, which

geopolitiki.com

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Ukranian forces have learned a lot from various battles with Russians. They fight much better than Turkish show in the Battle of Al-Bab. Let's see.

 

[Catalystic]

main question for both sides:

How long till all the toys run out?
When are the real weapons gonna be started to be used? I’m talking big long ones with warheads thst are nuclear.
How long to thst??

 

[aziqbal]

Tell me, advertising Merkavas in this thread wasn't off-topic also calling the T90s garbage.

If Hezbollah had your mentality then as of now, the overrated Merkavas were ruling the streets of southern Lebanon. Thank God the ill informed people don't believe western propaganda.

Merkava lost because it was fighting against a guerrilla army, Hezbollah infantry were very well trained and knew exactly how to outflank them even in the open terrain

Hezbolah Anti-tank team also have been training for decades on how to stop Israelis in Southern Lebanon which isn't really tank country

Tank vs Tank in open country like Ukraine is where the full capabilities are utilised

Challenger vs T90 and you will see how good the British tanks actually are in armoured formations

put a Challenger 2 in a urban environment give everyone a RPG and the Challenger 2 will be toast, that doesnt mean Challenger 2 is rubbish

get with the times you have totally failed to understand how mechanised armies work

 

[Ali_Baba]

capabilities of the tank

 

[Foinikas]

read the news its a British tank not Chinese or Russian



its a great injustice not to send the Leopard 2

over 1,300 in storage and even Canadians have them

I mean seriously what does Canada need tanks for, send them to Ukraine where they are needed

Leopard 2 was specially built to face Russian armour, so its entire existence is in vain if its not sent into Ukraine

I hope they do it

https://twitter.com/x/status/1611134036935860225

BOTH lists you posted are wrong. Ironically,continuing the tradition of you posting wrong numbers Anyway,I'll post the correct one tomorrow. The second one might be correct,but it doesn't have Austria.

 

[Muhammed45]

put a Challenger 2 in a urban environment give everyone a RPG and the Challenger 2 will be toast, that doesnt mean Challenger 2 is rubbish

Nope, RPG cannot stop challenger-2. The floor armour thickness of chellenger-2 is almost 16 mm according to OSINT. RPG is a joke compared to armour of this tank.

Please educate yourself about penetrating power of guided and unguided anti tank weapons.

@Beny Karachun was boasting about Trophy systems of Merkavas, this tank is the most overrated MBT that sometimes people think it is undisputed. I showed him anti tank missiles of Hezbollah could easily go through that active protection system without being countered and they could easily target Merkavas.

About MBT VS MBT on the battlefield, no one can claim that which tank can kill the other tank, it depends on the level of protection of each tank. As a basic principle, whichever MBT observes/sees the opponent is the winner of battle. Moreover a better crew can change the fate of every battle.

 

[Oldman1]

Mistake..
When you see these knocked out it won't be good for British tank industry

You see destroyed Abrams in Iraq and Yemen so what does that mean?

Yep it's around 200. I've seen ex-services saying the figure is lower at around 170.

And they will have a hard time getting Challenger 3s.

My concern is whether or not Ukraine can use those Western Armor as effective as ours, because we trained in one thing and they were trained with other.

Problem is Ukraine needs learn combined arms using drones and artillery as well as tanks and IFVs working together. Especially at night time.

 

[Oldman1]

Sorry can you repeat? Can't heard you over the sound of you being in denial.

Problem is with those Leos, they have ammo storage sitting right there next to the crew with no separate compartment. The only times you see Abrams lose the turret is intentional destruction of the tank by its crew from falling into enemy hands, or a very big IED that flipped the tank.

Leopard 2 tank with ammo storage in the hull. Don't know if they fixed that problem in the newer variants.

 

[Beny Karachun]

@Beny Karachun was boasting about Trophy systems of Merkavas, this tank is the most overrated MBT that sometimes people think it is undisputed. I showed him anti tank missiles of Hezbollah could easily go through that active protection system without being countered and they could easily target Merkavas.

Merkava literally had no Trophy system against Hezbollah you idiot, Trophy was developed as a result of 2006 war, Trophy intercepted over 200 ATGMs and RPGs ever since it was deployed with 100% success

 

[Oldman1]

I am kinda skeptical about Ukrainian armored units making much of a difference in the war.Challengers,Leopards,Bradleys and Marders are all great but Russians do have quite capable ATGM's in their arsenal not to mention attack drones.
More Excaliburs,Bonux and M30A1 missiles(for HIMARS)would be much more effective in fighting off the Russian army than tanks and IFV's in my opinion.

Combine arms would be the way to go.

 

[Beny Karachun]

Merkava lost because it was fighting against a guerrilla army, Hezbollah infantry were very well trained and knew exactly how to outflank them even in the open terrain

Hezbolah Anti-tank team also have been training for decades on how to stop Israelis in Southern Lebanon which isn't really tank country

Merkava didn't "lose", 5 Israeli tanks were destroyed in that war, 2006 war lasted 34 days, by that time Russia already had 500 tanks destroyed

Yeah Lebanon is a very mountainous and hard terrain for tanks. Hezbollah has made a ton of ambushes. But in reality they didn't halt the Israeli army, and Israeli casualties when compared to Hezbollah were insignificant.

 

[Oldman1]

@Hack-Hook

By the way, the Turkish M60TM variant that you mentioned about if it can handle taking on the Russians. See those "bars" sticking out in red box highlights?

Zaslin Active Protection System - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Muhammed45]

Merkava literally had no Trophy system against Hezbollah you idiot, Trophy was developed as a result of 2006 war, Trophy intercepted over 200 ATGMs and RPGs ever since it was deployed with 100% success

Let's suppose during the Hezbollah Israel war, Merkava had no APS which is a complete lie propagated by Israelis.

In the year 2014, Palestinians successfuly targeted dozens of Merkavas using Kornets. For example :

Resistance forces hit 7th Israeli tank, kill dozens

Palestinian resistance fighters have struck another Israeli tank and killed dozens of their forces during their ground incursion into the besieged Gaza Strip...

en.alalam.ir

Don't you think that there is a reason IDF doesn't dare to use its MBTs in the frontlines?

Israeli Trophy is an stolen Russian technology derived from Soviets developed Drozd, Russians were the first operator of APS. Nit to mention that Israel couldn't even test and upgrade these systems without US aid. Surely, Trophy was developed before 2006 with a weaker technology than the stolen Russian Drozd.

 

[Beny Karachun]

Let's suppose during the Hezbollah Israel war, Merkava had no APS which is a complete lie propagated by Israelis.

In the year 2014, Palestinians successfuly targeted dozens of Merkavas using Kornets. For example :

Resistance forces hit 7th Israeli tank, kill dozens

Palestinian resistance fighters have struck another Israeli tank and killed dozens of their forces during their ground incursion into the besieged Gaza Strip...

en.alalam.ir

Don't you think that there is a reason IDF doesn't dare to use its MBTs in the frontlines?

Israeli Trophy is an stolen Russian technology derived from Soviets developed Drozd, Russians were the first operator of APS. Nit to mention that Israel couldn't even test and upgrade these systems without US aid. Surely, Trophy was developed before 2006 with a weaker technology than the stolen Russian Drozd.

Trophy (countermeasure) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

LOL, show me a picture of a Merkava in Lebanon with Trophy

Targeted dozens of Merkavas? Hahahaha, you prove that with some random Iranian blog?
"According to sources within the Palestinian fighters in Gaza" those 0 IQ monkeys probably don't understand their missiles got blown up 10 meters away from the tank.

What do you mean IDF doesn't dare to use MBTs in its frontlines? What frontline does the IDF not have tanks in? besides West Bank which doesn't need any?

Drozd is garbage that didn't work, Russians don't have a fielded APS 50 years after the Drozd, Israel developed the first real working APS, and the fact Germany, UK, US, Netherlands, Sweden, Australia etc are all buying our APS systems shows its superiority.