Battle for Democracy Not Easy

[Interceptor]

I agree with you, military rule is like a slot machine, chances of jackpot are very slim.
Dictatorship in any form is not good, even when it comes through the process of elections.
Once you see that your ruler is a better person do not attempt to change, dosn't matter which channel it came from.
I even recomend to hire a qualified manager on a big salary for the job.

History shows that Dictators never have happy endings nor do they give anything to the country they are just used as pupets and country destroyers.

We have many islamic countries where rulers are King but every one is wealthy and happy. People go there to live from un-islamic countries.
Becasue mismanagment produce more disaster than corruption it self.

Those countries have no future Pakistan is a country where socialism is its first Poem, the country was made by people who brought hope to the minorities of India that ruled India at one point. Pakistan is a vision that was made to come true and a country that has shocked the world with its rich culture, inteligence and development. This country needs leaders and not Dictators they lie and create propoganda against democrates so that they can survive on to the next generation the MQM is this corrupt party that is extreme in the cause of Martial law.

“The revolution is not an apple that falls when it is ripe. You have to make it fall.”

Che Guavara

If there is need for change than it is only possible if you believe in change and if you stand up for it.

The reason why the Chief Justice was ousted was because the constitution does not allow a president to have third term in the country, Musharraf has already had two terms some say five. He has no chance of entering Presidency again and thats why the Chief Justice has been ousted. The constitution also adds another article that any member of any institution to able to stand in a election, must stand down from that institution and after 2 years he will be allowed to run for election in the country. Musharraf came in power with force and has two powerful jobs he is the Chief of Army staff and a President. He has his own puppet parliment.

 

[Lahori paa jee]

As much as i hate to say this but in the current situation only Mush - BB deal can save Pakistan. The mess Mush has created in the last 8 years can only be undone by BB and PPP.

 

[BATMAN]

As much as i hate to say this but in the current situation only Mush - BB deal can save Pakistan. The mess Mush has created in the last 8 years can only be undone by BB and PPP.

BB is very well capable of playing (so called) politcal games.
Today she is seeking a patch but after how she unfolds her shrewd genious will be a documentry to watch and a souvenir for Musharraf.

 

[BATMAN]

History shows that Dictators never have happy endings nor do they give anything to the country they are just used as pupets and country destroyers. Those countries have no future

There is no disagreement to the flaws and drawbacks of dictatorship; I even say it is a sin.
But I can never agree to the point that all military men around the world are dictators.
Rather, I believe dictator cannot survive or at least flourish in a disciplined organisation like military. I see military not only as a professional but also a grooming institute.
A civilian (in Pakistan) has more chance of turning to dictator when he obtains authority.

Pakistan is a country where socialism is its first Poem, the country was made by people who brought hope to the minorities of India that ruled India at one point. Pakistan is a vision that was made to come true and a country that has shocked the world with its rich culture, inteligence and development.

This country needs leaders and not Dictators they lie and create propoganda against democrates so that they can survive on to the next generation the MQM is this corrupt party that is extreme in the cause of Martial law.

Socialism is a system, which has it pros and cons.
In my opinion, you can find more people on this earth who agree to this system but it has always failed because some how it is not fitting to human nature. We need more, we need to grow, we become monotones, we need innovation, our likenesses are different, we need motivation to do more and we need reward for doing best. These are few human instincts which are not considered in socialism. USSR might ring some bells.

Perhaps you can say that (Q.A) M.Ali Jinnah was inclined to secularism in Islamic state. e.g. Turkey but socialism was never associated with him.
He joined Muslim league on principle grounds. He didn’t find Congress following what they proclaimed.
MQM is another corrupt political party with its plus and minus. I add that they decide there alliances based on there personal interest rather national interest.
PPP has more grievances because they shared her vote bank but this should not be the reason to target MQM unnecessarily.

“The revolution is not an apple that falls when it is ripe. You have to make it fall.”

Che Guavara

If there is need for change than it is only possible if you believe in change and if you stand up for it.

I don’t see a reason for change and I can also see that all such attempts are yielding negative implications.

The reason why the Chief Justice was ousted was because the constitution does not allow a president to have third term in the country, Musharraf has already had two terms some say five. He has no chance of entering Presidency again and thats why the Chief Justice has been ousted. The constitution also adds another article that any member of any institution to able to stand in a election, must stand down from that institution and after 2 years he will be allowed to run for election in the country. Musharraf came in power with force and has two powerful jobs he is the Chief of Army staff and a President. He has his own puppet parliment.

I know that there are charges against him and in response he has busted the state laws and disrupted normal life.
I never heard of any such clause and neither that any occasion (rtd.) CJ mentioned it. How ever I leave it to present CJ but violent protest and revolution??????
How about applying similar restriction to Prime minister’s job, as well?

 

[Interceptor]

There is no disagreement to the flaws and drawbacks of dictatorship; I even say it is a sin.
But I can never agree to the point that all military men around the world are dictators.
Rather, I believe dictator cannot survive or at least flourish in a disciplined organisation like military. I see military not only as a professional but also a grooming institute.
A civilian (in Pakistan) has more chance of turning to dictator when he obtains authority.

There is uncertainty in you be certain to know that the Pakistani people did not turn toward Dictatorship it really was forced on them I can claim this by the way Musharraf hold posistion he calls him self a democrat and has astablished with MQM he came in power to as Dictator and the People of Pakistan could not do more than watch this drama unfold.

Socialism is a system, which has it pros and cons.
In my opinion, you can find more people on this earth who agree to this system but it has always failed because some how it is not fitting to human nature. We need more, we need to grow, we become monotones, we need innovation, our likenesses are different, we need motivation to do more and we need reward for doing best. These are few human instincts which are not considered in socialism. USSR might ring some bells.

USSR was not a socialist country its a Communist country, Socialism is was Karl Marx theory infact he missused Islam that he read and claimed is conclusion but he introduced other variables into socialism. Socialism is a flexible system and has been used and was extremly successful Mr Bhutto introduced this in the 70s he established many state owened companies institution assests that till now from his death have never increased. Socialism is also the answer to the corruption and Land lords in Pakistan who have made the poor mans life more worse. I praise socialism but do mind that I mean that Socialism is a flexible system you can side a system with this which is democracy and this will work.

Perhaps you can say that (Q.A) M.Ali Jinnah was inclined to secularism in Islamic state. e.g. Turkey but socialism was never associated with him.
He joined Muslim league on principle grounds. He didn’t find Congress following what they proclaimed.
MQM is another corrupt political party with its plus and minus. I add that they decide there alliances based on there personal interest rather national interest.
PPP has more grievances because they shared her vote bank but this should not be the reason to target MQM unnecessarily.

MQM is a minus there is no good values of MQM I can deduce this that the MQM have the brightest people in their arsenal I mean the thinkers the top minds in Pakistan like Musharraf he is Muhajir (spelling) these Muhajirs are afraid that some one will take there high level posistion and thats why they do what makes Pakistan fall into dictatorship the MQM was created by a dictator called Zia. I have to add that it was Iqbal who I was socialist he wrote many poes about socialism and then there is my favorite Poet Faiz Ahmed Faiz I read his translated work.

I don’t see a reason for change and I can also see that all such attempts are yielding negative implications.

Then you still have a long road ahead. Pakistan needs a change it craves for a change it wants to become a power Jinnah told the People of Pakistan that they must change themself and so to meet the countries requirement they must help the country to grow.

I know that there are charges against him and in response he has busted the state laws and disrupted normal life.
I never heard of any such clause and neither that any occasion (rtd.) CJ mentioned it. How ever I leave it to present CJ but violent protest and revolution??????
How about applying similar restriction to Prime minister’s job, as well?

The first thing you must know that the CJ was chosen by Musharraf and the Dictator thought he is just a fool and wont come in his way the CJ was harrased by the dictator in the past the CJ who were in the Dictator regimes of Pakistan have never spoken up against the dictatorship because they were afraid of them a good reminder is the CJ of Bhutto era he ran away from the dictator or otherewise he would have been murdered there various cases in which the Judicial has been made a mock in Pakistan. If you talk about breaking the law then the GIGGEST CRIMINAL IS MUSHARRAF HE HAS BROKEN ALL THE LAWS HOWEVER, U CANT SEE THAT. Well the restriction of a third term is really in the constitution of Pakistan and it is not possible well he wants to have elections but he cant get elected this time he has to bring martial law and then he will have no need for any prime ministers or parliment nothing just him anyways the parliment of Pakistan is already a mock.

 

[Interceptor]

Nation braces for power show down today

ISLAMABAD: Ruling party PML-Q and allied party MQM will show off their political might today (Saturday) in the federal capital and Karachi respectively on the arrival of Chief Justice of Pakistan Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry to Karachi.

Justice Chaudhry will speak at the Sindh High Court. Security is being worked on, and only lawyers and journalists will be allowed to enter the arena. Preparations to "welcome him" are in full swing.

Apart from the lawyers, the opposition parties are all up and clamouring for attention as well, especially the Pakistan People‘s Party (PPP), the Awami National Party (ANP) and the Pakistan Muslim League - Nawaz (PML - N). Meetings are being held left, right and centre, and preparations are on to "welcome to CJP" in Karachi.

While the ruling party PML-Q is not far behind with its own plans to hold a counter rally in the federal capital. The massive PML rally will be attended by a rough estimate of 0.5 million supporters and would be addressed by President Musharraf and Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz.

To this effect security of the federal capital has been beefed up and abut 5000 law enforcement personnel would ensure security during the rally.

However the preparations for the rally are becoming a nuisance for the public and a large number of government employees working in the vicinity. Due to the impounding of public transport vehicles people are having a hard time in moving about.

While in Karachi Preparations for the Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM)’s scheduled May 12 rally against the alleged politicizing of CJ matters is also in full swing.

Necessary arrangements have been made at the Tibet Centre, the epicenter of the miles long sprawling rally, from where the MQM leaders would be addressing the massive rally, while a large number of loudspeakers has been installed all through the Tibet Centre to Guru Mandir besides the fluttering banners depicting MQM stances on the issue viz. riots in the name of independence of judiciary unacceptable etc., while the MQM flags flying high all over the city have overcast the environment of a traditional lively MQM rally here on Saturday, May 12.

Police in Karachi have begun removing the reception camps set up in different parts of the city on Thursday-Friday night.

According to home department, the police have been directed to remove the reception camps established in different areas of city.

According to the Advisor Home Department Sindh, Wasim Akhtar, section 144 has not been enforced in the city.

According to home department sources, no party or organization has been permitted to set up reception camps in the metropolis.

While the political parties have accused the Sindh government of rounding up their political workers in a bid to sabotage the massive welcome the Chief Justice is expected to get in Karachi.

Meanwhile Despite Alarms being sounded off for a possible show down between the MQM and opposition parties on Saturday the CJP has refused to cancel his visit to Karachi to address the Sindh Bar.

PML President Ch Shujaat also has assured that May 12 rallies won’t cause any violence in Karachi.

There is no danger of any clash as a result of May 12 rallies in the Karachi city, he added.

http://www.onlinenews.com.pk/details.php?id=112101

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The MQM attacking the People of Pakistan again the crowd that was quoted to be the biggest of the MQM is smaller than football crowd I mean really small. The MQM has attacked the people of Pakistan and they have asked the government stop opposistion parties as MQM shows its minute roar.

 

[Interceptor]

PPP adheres to charter of democracy, says Badr

By Our Correspondent

SAHIWAL, May 21: The Pakistan Peoples’ Party (PPP) will strictly adhere to the charter of democracy to force the rulers to quit the government. This was stated by PPP secretary-general Jahangir Badr while addressing the Peoples’ Lawyers Forum here on Monday.

He said he was confident that the struggle of lawyers would succeed, and the PPP, after coming into power, would take action against those who torched the rally of lawyers in Sahiwal.

Mr Badr praised the lawyers’ struggle for the cause of the independence of judiciary.

He gave out that the PPP chairperson Benazir Bhutto had sought a report on the May 12 incident in Karachi and the torching of lawyers’ rally in Sahiwal.

He asked PLF’s Mehr Nazar Farid Fatiana advocate to submit a white paper on police atrocities.

INJURED: Three motorcyclists looted Rs650,000 in cash after injuring seriously the cashier and the driver of a medicine distributing company with gunfire shots here on Monday.

Reports said the cashier and driver Victor were on their way to deposit the cash with a bank branch on Jinnah Street when masked bandits started chasing them from their office on Tariq bin Ziad Colony. On reaching close to the van, motorcyclists opened fire on the cashier and the driver, snatched a bag containing the cash and escaped from the scene. The injured were admitted to hospital where their condition was stated to be serious.

Fateh Sher police are looking into the matter.

Meanwhile, five bandits looted the house of a farmer at Chak 82/12-L.

Reports said that bandits entered the house of Naveed Ahmed by scaling its boundary wall, woke up the inmates and held them up at pistol point. Later, the intruders locked the women in a room, collected 61 tolas of gold, Rs134,000 in cash, a rifle and fled while resorting to aerial firing.

Shahkot police have registered a case.

http://www.dawn.com.pk/2007/05/22/nat10.htm

 

[ChineseBoy]

Any leader did nogood to his people would finally be no leader inspite of his way to get that position,as our great Dengxiaoping said:Ability to catch rats does nothing with the colour of a cat.

 

[Interceptor]

Musharraf not acceptable in uniform: Benazir

Daily Times Monitor

LAHORE: Former prime minister Benazir Bhutto on Friday criticised the Muttahida Mujlis-e-Amal for supporting President Gen Pervez Musharraf, saying the religious alliance provided Musharraf a chance to remain in uniform.

In an interview with an Indian television channel, Benazir said the Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) had always opposed Musharraf in uniform, adding that her party could not accept a president in uniform.

She said she would hold talks with Musharraf provided he was serious for this, the channel quoted her as saying. She said the army could be sent back to barracks through dialogue.

The Pakistan People’s Party chairwoman said she couldn’t say that her party would reach an agreement with Musharraf if dialogues were held. She, however, again pledged to return to Pakistan. She admitted her party had been in contact with the government for the “sake of democracy”. She said dialogue with Musharraf would only be held if the latter relinquished uniform.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\05\26\story_26-5-2007_pg1_8

 

[Interceptor]

Any leader did nogood to his people would finally be no leader inspite of his way to get that position,as our great Dengxiaoping said:Ability to catch rats does nothing with the colour of a cat.

As with all leaders they have power when they enter the office, mostly power in the from of a military point they have the power of the gun. However, there are some leaders who's power is the power of the people. In both cases the people rise above, and missinformation is what holds you and me from a debate from the truth.

“Cruel leaders are replaced only to have new leaders turn cruel!”
Che Guavara

This only applies to a cruel leader.

All rats look like the ones before them, and it doesn't matter if the cat is black or white when it catches them in the end it is ill fated. Ability is nothing without opportunity.

 

[BATMAN]

Qazi asks PPP not to put hurdles in way of a ‘grand alliance’
http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=57575

The Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal President Qazi Hussain Ahmed has asked the Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) not to put hurdles in the way of forming a ‘grand alliance’ on May 26.

 

[ChineseBoy]

As with all leaders they have power when they enter the office, mostly power in the from of a military point they have the power of the gun. However, there are some leaders who's power is the power of the people. In both cases the people rise above, and missinformation is what holds you and me from a debate from the truth.

“Cruel leaders are replaced only to have new leaders turn cruel!”
Che Guavara

This only applies to a cruel leader.

All rats look like the ones before them, and it doesn't matter if the cat is black or white when it catches them in the end it is ill fated. Ability is nothing without opportunity.

Anyway,I believe safety is the most important thing to a country in this dangerous world,and then what quality of life her people have----especially in the east,elected or not should be less important comparatively.And has the present leader done any wrong yet?
I do believe Pakistians are wise enough to choose the right leader for them.
Time would tell the result.

 

[Interceptor]

Anyway,I believe safety is the most important thing to a country in this dangerous world,and then what quality of life her people have----especially in the east,elected or not should be less important comparatively.And has the present leader done any wrong yet?
I do believe Pakistians are wise enough to choose the right leader for them.
Time would tell the result.

If there is a strong leader a leader of the People or the country it will give rise to safety it will give rise to the power of the people. Mao is an example of China he was best friends with Pakistan, however, the most important in this case he was what the People of China wanted. Therefore, the need people should be met as you see that Pakistan requires a leader that is elected by the People of Pakistan and not a dictator who forced his way and came into power.

"The people, and the people alone, are the motive force in the making of world history. "
Mao

 

[Interceptor]

Visiting US Official Voices Support for Pakistan and President Musharraf

By Benjamin Sand
Islamabad
16 June 2007


A senior U.S. official in Pakistan provided the strongest indication yet that Washington will stand by embattled Pakistan leader Pervez Musharraf. U.S. Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte, in Pakistan for a two-day visit, emphasized Washington's commitment to a long-term Pakistan - U.S. alliance. VOA correspondent Benjamin Sand reports from Islamabad.

Pakistani opposition parties activists surround the vehicle of suspended Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry at a street in Chakwal​

Pakistani opposition parties activists surround the vehicle of suspended Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry at a street in Chakwal
The visit comes as President Musharraf faces mounting political opposition at home over his controversial decision to fire the country's top judge last March.

The political crisis continues to heat up ahead of national elections expected later this year.

Deputy Secretary of State Negroponte met Mr. Musharraf Saturday, the same day the ousted judge led a massive protest rally in the central city of Faisalabad.

There was widespread speculation that Mr. Negroponte would be delivering a tough message from Washington demanding a firm commitment to democratic reforms inside Pakistan.

US Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte addresses a news conference at the US embassy in Islamabad, Pakistan, 16 June 2007
​

However, speaking to reporters following the meeting, Mr. Negroponte reiterated Washington's continued support for President Musharraf's government.

"As far as the message that I brought, it is one of strong friendship and trust," he said. "We believe that we have an excellent partnership together in facing the various challenges that confront us."

He said the central challenge remains the war against terrorism, where Pakistan, and General Musharraf, are key U.S. allies.

Under Musharraf, Pakistan's military has deployed some 80,000 troops to help secure the rugged tribal areas along the Afghan border, where Taleban and al-Qaida militants are believed to operate.

Pervez Musharraf (May 2007 photo)
​

President Musharraf has come under fire, both at home and abroad, for his refusal to give up his dual role as both president and head of Pakistan's powerful military.

Mr. Negroponte did repeat calls Saturday for "free, fair and transparent" elections later this year. But on the central issue of issue of President's Musharraf's military uniform, Mr. Negroponte declined comment.

"This is a matter that is up to him ,and I am sure that he's going to make that decision based on all the considerations that he considers relevant to the situation as he sees it," he added.

Under the Pakistan constitution, President Musharraf would be obliged to quit the army before seeking reelection. Opposition leaders are demanding that he give up his military post sooner rather than later.

The president is also pushing the country's sitting national assembly to reelect him to another five-year term before it is dissolved in November ahead national elections.

Musharraf's political opposition is expected to dominate those elections and gain a significant majority in the national assembly.

http://www.voanews.com/english/2007-06-16-voa23.cfm

 

[Interceptor]

Pakistan's dictator

Monday, June 11, 2007

If General Pervez Musharraf were the democratic leader he indignantly insists he is, he would not be so busy threatening independent news outlets, arresting hundreds of opposition politicians and berating parliamentary leaders and ministers from his own party for insufficient loyalty to his arbitrary and widely unpopular policies.

But nobody takes Musharraf's democratic claims seriously anymore, except for the Bush administration, which has put itself in the embarrassing position of propping up the Muslim world's most powerful military dictator as an essential ally in its half-baked campaign to promote democracy throughout the Muslim world. Washington needs to disentangle America, quickly, from the general's damaging embrace.

Ever since his high-handed dismissal of the country's independent-minded chief justice in March, the general has been busily digging himself into an ever deeper political hole.

Last week, he issued a decree giving himself increased powers to shut down independent television channels, but under mounting pressure he withdrew it over the weekend. More than 300 local political leaders in Punjab were arrested in an effort to head off protests against the decree. Still, thousands of lawyers, journalists and political activists gathered to protest the firing, the censorship and the general's continued rule. Pakistan seems to be rapidly approaching a critical turning point, with a choice between intensified repression and instability or an orderly transition back to democratic rule.

Were Washington now to begin distancing itself from the general, it would greatly encourage civic-minded Pakistanis to step up the pressure for free national elections. That is what Pakistan's last two democratically elected leaders - Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif - are both campaigning for from abroad. The United States should be supporting these efforts.

Pakistan has its share of violent Islamic extremists, military and civilian. But they are clearly in the minority. The best hope for diluting their political, and geopolitical, influence lies not in heating the pressure cooker of repression, but in promoting the earliest possible democratic elections.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/06/11/opinion/edpakistan.php