Bangladesh to observe one-minute blackout on March 25

[Centaur]

then getting surrounded by Hindutva India. Getting totally isolated in the region, at least should have secured a corridor to China.

With this part I agree . But

No doubt Hindu Muslim people would survive together. And Bengal would lead India due to population superiority

Can you please elaborate this part? Indian muslims are in low low status. Permanent settlement made Bengali Muslims actually much weak and poor to Hindus ( that time), so how can population superiority work where there is no religious tolerance?

Creation of Pakistan didnt help Muslims of India and Bengal at all.

Well Pakistan ( present day) is a completely different region with different culture, we only share religion and noting else.
And it was not under British India before Shikh Kingdom and other places were annexed by British Empire . So if even Bengalis wouldn't be involved in Pakistan movement aka separate Muslim countries, still they ( Pakistan) could manage their country, maybe it was not easy for them because Muslim League's majority in Bengal played the biggest role .
Still what would be the benefits of Indian muslims if Indian remain undivided ? Muslims would be still much lower in.number in Indian sub continent comparing Hindus? And we know the second class status of Muslims in India now and it was much worse in British berate because of permanent settlement!
It would be nice to hear from you about this. thank you .
@The Last Jedi

 

[Kambojaric]

I don't know where they got this 1:50 bullshit. Pak troops(regular army+paramilitary) was about 1 lakh and Rajakar was 50k. While Indian force was 2.5 lakhs and Mukti Bahini was 2 lakhs. So it was 1:3 advantage for allied forces.

 

[Arsalan 345]

I feel that we made some mistakes but Bangladesh also allowed India on our soil.indian forces not only created hate but it also managed to encircle Dhaka and we lost a pathetic war with our own people.if Bangladesh wants Pakistan to apologize,they should also apologize to us for helping our worst enemy India.now Pakistan and Bangladesh are too far and I think Bangladesh should forget it because when you place a military to defend Homeland at any cost,this type of things happen.any military hates enemy forces and indians were present on Bangladeshi soil even before Pakistan decided to force mukhti bahini to surrender.no military in the world wants it's country to be broken in two pieces.if it hurts Bangladesh,than it also hurts Pakistan.

 

[Centaur]

According to Bangladeshi pseudo intellectuals,surely this Indian general is both rajakar and Pakistani like sharmila Bose ; the author of the book, " dead reckoning" no doubt now.
The real problem is most of BD folks are heavily inspired by such intellectuals ; both Pakistan haters ( very few in number) and also those neutral folks .
Truly disastrous that our country folks is yet to think and use their brain apart from pseudo intellectual propaganda.
Hope they will be rational soon.

 

[Homo Sapiens]

He said 15 to 1. Listen carefully. And that 15 times does not necessarily means man power. It can be air force strength, army equipment strength anything.If he meant man power, then I must say, senility has taken a big toll on his memory.Because everybody knows which sides contained how many soldiers.There can not be a wide variation in that counting. It is always nearer to 1:3.

 

[Kambojaric]

He said 15 to 1. Listen carefully. And that 15 times does not necessarily means man power. It can be air force strength, army equipment strength anything.If he meant man power, then I must say, senility has taken a big toll on his memory.Because everybody knows which sides contained how many soldiers.There can not be a wide variation in that counting. It is always nearer to 1:3.

@Kaptaan , does the field marshal say 50 or 15? Either way even if we are to accept the 15:1 figure, any army facing odds of 15:1 will 99% of the time lose. As for terming him senile, that is just plain harsh. @Nilgiri , as an Indian member on this thread, did the field marshal become senile or is Homo Sapiens view about him harsh and unjustified?

 

[war&peace]

British are far better at governing than useless South Asian politicians. I am sure you ultra superior punjabi-pathans are happy with maha shareef family and playboy khan.

So slavery in your genes.....well you can sell yourself in open market and become a slave.

He said 15 to 1. Listen carefully. And that 15 times does not necessarily means man power. It can be air force strength, army equipment strength anything.If he meant man power, then I must say, senility has taken a big toll on his memory.Because everybody knows which sides contained how many soldiers.There can not be a wide variation in that counting. It is always nearer to 1:3.

When were you born?

 

[Kambojaric]

According to Bangladeshi pseudo intellectuals,surely this Indian general is both rajakar and Pakistani like sharmila Bose ; the author of the book, " dead reckoning" because no doubt now.
The real problem is most of BD folks are heavily inspired by such intellectuals ; both Pakistan haters ( very few in number) and also those neutral folks .
Truly disastrous that our country folks is yet to think and use their brain apart from pseudo intellectual propaganda.
Hope they will be rational soon.

Unfortunately the rift between Pakistanis and Bangladeshis is only increasing in recent years, and pardon me for saying this but little has changed from the Pakistani side to cause this increase in the rift. Our relations were very good pre 2008. The only factor in our relations that has changed in recent years is Hasina, who seems to be on a personal vendetta and will expose the country to harm as well as long as her own agenda is fulfilled. The way Myanmar is pushing Rohingyas into Bangladesh and soon Assemese Bengalis too will start pouring in is the most blatant example of her policy failures. Still I as a Pakistani will not claim to know much about Bangladesh's internal dealings and what is good and bad for it. All I can see as an outsider is that on paper Myanmar is at best an equal nation with Bangladesh (in terms of power), and yet it has clearly outplayed Bangladesh. Nobody came to its defense against Burmese aggression.

 

[war&peace]

@Kaptaan , does the field marshal say 50 or 15? Either way any army facing odds of 15:1 will 99% of the time lose. As for terming him senile, that is just plain harsh. @Nilgiri , as an Indian member on this thread, did the field marshal become senile or is Homo Sapiens view about him harsh and unjustified?

The hate has clouded his brain so he can't accept the truth even if it is comes from his father. General Manek Shaw clearly says that Pakistan army fought very gallantly, but it was 1000 miles away from their land, PA had no chance since he enjoyed at ratio of 50:1 plus 8-9 months of preparation (that simply means India was planning for its since a long time).

Is that form of appreciation for the effort British put in making the British India? Are you validating the British imperial project achieved at the point of guns? And do you regret Burma being partitioned off in 1937 as well?

Some people have slavery in their genes

 

[Centaur]

Unfortunately the rift between Pakistanis and Bangladeshis is only increasing in recent years, and pardon me for saying this but little has changed from the Pakistani side to cause this increase in the rift. Our relations were very good pre 2008. The only factor in our relations that has changed in recent years is Hasina, who seems to be on a personal vendetta and will expose the country to harm as well as long as her own agenda is fulfilled. The way Myanmar is pushing Rohingyas into Bangladesh and soon Assemese Bengalis too will start pouring in is the most blatant example of her policy failures. Still I as a Pakistani will not claim to know much about Bangladesh's internal dealings and what is good and bad for it. All I can see as an outsider is that on paper Myanmar is at best an equal nation with Bangladesh (in terms of power), and yet it has clearly outplayed Bangladesh. Nobody came to its defense against Burmese aggression.

Umm yes I agree, despite her good works ( like improvement of BD economy, reducing poverty and hunger in lower lever folks ,and such many others) , her harping about 1971 and fake anti pakistani ( it's my opinion only as mujib was not against the unity of pakistan but actually he wanted to solve it in table ; but it's off topic here) bullying are just not only irritating but also laughable. And also sending wrong messages to our Pakistani brothers , it's disastrous no doubt.
And also it's ( her behavior) showing us as Indian stooge , too bad for a Muslim nation.
But hopefully the situation is changing slowly , as she already said to India that it's not indian concern if China and bangladesh build up new relationship.
However the reality is at that moment she really doesn't have any other option left but the harping of 1971 and fake anti pakistan sentiment in order to survive in politics.
Still most of BD folks mistakenly think that BNP ideology is Islamic and awami ideology is anti islamic.
So she had to choose leftist side . But now awami league is building up good relationship with deobandis.
So if deobandis can be established in politics, I believe hasina will have the option to embrace them ( she can't embrace jamat now I think , because jamati leaders are hanged already by her policy, so maybe deobandis will be the better alternative ) , so she can prove herself more Islamic than BNP. Or it may not happen in her time as she is too old so I believe this next election will be her final election, she may retire from Politics after that after the next one .
Let's see what happen in next election. If she can win , I believe her harping will be reduced, won't vanished totally though as she already had to choose the path.
@Kambojaric

 

[Indus Pakistan]

does the field marshal say 50 or 15?

To me it sounds like '50' but even if it is '15' the point is India/Banglas enjoyed tremendous advantage in manpower and material.

It can be air force strength, army equipment strength anything

I suppose in your little world military equipment etc does not require men to operate it?

I must say, senility has taken a big toll on his memory

The FM sounded coherant and articulate. Show some respect to him. He fathered you guys.

And PA army did not have 100k. It had two understrength divisions reinforced with some brigades/paramilitery forces. That is tops 55k men. Rest were civilian staff, families and children.



According to Lt Gen Naizi, Corps Commander of Eastern Command in 1971.

“The total fighting strength available to me [Gen Naizi] was forty-five thousand – 34,000 from the army, plus 11,000 from CAF and West Pakistan civilian police and armed non-combatants”who were fighting against the insurgents. Even if the strength of HL, MLA, depots, training institutes, workshops, factories, nurses and lady doctors, non-combatants like barbers, cooks, shoemakers and sweepers are added, even then the total comes to only 55,000.

Air Marshal Rahim khan, CNC Pakistan Air Force (1969-1972), had stated:

“The number of regular Pakistani troops in East Pakistan never exceeded 33,000-34,000. The rest is just propaganda by India and the Awami League, to magnify their success….”

Air Marshal Zulfiqar Ali Khan, who commended Eastern Wing of Pakistan Air Forces had asserted the same in these words:

“At the maximum, our regular fighting force in East Pakistan in December 1971 stood at 34,000. This figure does not include paramilitary personnel, military police, etc. Even if you include the auxiliaries, the total does not cross 45,000”.

General Akhtar Abdul Rehman. Former Vice Chief of Army Staff, speaking on the 1971 conundrum stated

“It was impossible for the 34,000 Pakistani troops in East Pakistan or for that matter any army in the world to fight against the combined strength of 200,000 Indian army and 170,000 Mukti Bahini, If not more, that too in a hostile environment 1200 miles away from West Pakistan …… Keeping into account all this, if the Indians still feel that they achieved a stunning military victory against Pakistan, I can only say they have fallen prey to their own propaganda”.

US congressman, Charles Wilson (famous for Charlie Wilson’s War) in a discussion with Pakistani diplomats in Washington DC remarked.

“……In 1971, it was certainly not possible for the 35,000 Pakistani troops in Dhaka to fight against the combined strength of 200,000 Indian army and the more than 100,000 Indian-trained Bengali guerillas.”

Another US congressman, Stephen Solarz, commenting on the War of 1971 in June 1989, remarked,

“Pakistanis are energetic, vibrant, and resilient. We must not be misled by 1971. It was certainly not possible for the 40,000 odd Pakistani army in Dhaka to fight against much larger Indian army and Indian-trained Bengali Bahinis in a hostile territory ….”

K C Pant, Indian former Defense Minister in September, 1994 during a discussion on Indo-Pak relations held in New Delhi, said

“Peace is important between Pakistan and India. We respect the professional competence of the Pakistani soldier. Had democracy continued in Pakistan, Islamabad would not have suffered the debacle resulting in the surrender of its 40,000 military personnel to India in East Pakistan”.

Sarmila Bose, the famous Indian Bengali writer and Associate Researcher at Oxford University in her book Dead Reckoning published in 2011, asserts

“…… t appears that while the total figure in Indian custody is about right, to state that 93,000 soldiers were taken prisoner is wrong, and creates confusions by greatly inflating the Pakistani fighting force in East Pakistan”.

Javed Jabbar, former Pakistani Minister of Information in his article, Estranged siblings-Pakistan and Bangladesh, 40 years later, wrote

“Pakistan’s armed forces did not exceed 45,000 troops at optimal levels. The 90,000 prisoners-of-war held by India included over 50,000 non- combatant, unarmed West Pakistani civilians.”

S. M. Hali, a well-known Pakistani analyst in his article, Breaking myths of 1971 Pak-India war writes,

“The total strength of Pakistan Army in East Pakistan (in 1971) was 40,000….”


https://www.globalvillagespace.com/93000-pakistani-soldiers-did-not-surrender-in-1971-because/

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...rs-general/pmredirectshow/3170360.cms?curpg=2

@Signalian

 

[Homo Sapiens]

The hate has clouded his brain so he can't accept the truth even it is coming from his father. General Manek Shaw clearly says that Pakistan army fought very gallantly, but it was 1000 miles away from their land, PA had no chance since he enjoyed at ratio of 50:1 plus 8-9 months of preparation (that simply means India was planning for its since a long time).

Please explain what he meant by 50:1 ratio? Is it man power? Even if we accept the Pakistani minimalist claim of 35k regular Pak troops, does that means India invaded with 35000x50=1,750,000 troops? Does India have that number of active troops even today? Manekshaw clearly said 15:1 ratio and it was certainly not the man power. Most probably he was talking about fighter jet or tanks.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

 

[Mage]

Number of soldiers in 71 is irrelevant. Truth is they screwed up and had to surrender and now they'll say anything to save their faces. And no matter what excuse they come up with they will sound like sore losers.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Please explain what he meant by 50:1 ratio? Is it man power? Even if we accept the Pakistani minimalist claim of 35k regular Pak troops, does that means India invaded with 35000x50=1,750,000 troops?

Would your constipation be cured if I said the FM said "15:1"? That is plausible. If you include IA and Mukhtos we can split hairs and revisit our arithemtic but one thing will not change. The inescapabe fact is PA faced a overwhelming and vastly larger IA/Bangla forces.

Just across your swamp in Vietnam around the same time a superpower - US Army was thrashed in Vietnam yet it had far, far greater forces at it's disposal including largest airforce/navy in the world. Was it not for the mighty US logistics ability US forces would not have gotten out and would have had to suurender.

Last US heli out of Vietnam 1975.

mighty US logistics ability US forces would not have gotten out and would have had to suurender.

Truth is

"low lying land of low lying people'”

General A.K. Niazi