Bangladesh’s example: Give secularism, tolerance a chance in Pakistan

[Sugarcane]

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[American Pakistani]

Pakistan need tolerance & Unity. I wish to see Pakistanis united under one flag of great Cresent & Star keeping aside their ethnicity, Sect & religious/political views. Pakistan was very unfortunate when one of the Greatest leader in Muslim World & founder of Pakistan left Pakistanis alone. If M.A. Jinnah had lived for atleast 12-16 years, Pakistan story would be very very different now & i can BET you that Pakistan would be same as Turkey today (or may be much ahead of Turkey). Jinnah(R.A) was a great with strong & indepandant views & was very talented & educated.

P.S Pakistan is a very big & very diverse country & i think it doesn't need any role model only if it start following the steps of Jinnah(R.A). & still if Pakistan need a model than the most Pakistan can do is, follow the model of Turkey. As for Bdsh, with no offense i want to say that Bdsh is just doing every thing to please india(a country that no person give a fcuk about in Pakistan), sorry to say but Bdshis consider indians as Africans consider Americans, it is just like a proxy state of india & will soon reunite with india(this is my analysis & you are free to disagree).

Best of luck for bangladesh. According to me they are in the correct path. Pakistan is far from it.

I think you don't know much about Pakistan. Pakistan's culture is Sufism & majority people are followers of it, it teaches us tolerance.

Also the main problem in Pakistan is bad governance & lack of leadership, Pakistan can rise to the heights of sky today only if it gets a good leadership.

 

[King Solomon]

Pakistan need tolerance & Unity. I wish to see Pakistanis united under one flag of great Cresent & Star keeping aside their ethnicity, Sect & religious/political views. Pakistan was very unfortunate when one of the Greatest leader in Muslim World & founder of Pakistan left Pakistanis alone. If M.A. Jinnah had lived for atleast 12-16 years, Pakistan story would be very very different now & i can BET you that Pakistan would be same as Turkey today (or may be much ahead of Turkey). Jinnah(R.A) was a great with strong & indepandant views & was very talented & educated.

Agreed whole-heartedly. Pakistan was unfortunate to have its 'Ataturk' die just after its independence. Turkey's Ataturk governed the country for about 20 years and laid a very good, Quranic foundation for the country, a reason why Turkey is the most advanced Islamic country today.

 

[DRaisinHerald]

Quranic foundation for the country, a reason why Turkey is the most advanced Islamic country today.

Turkey is secular, what Quranic foundation?

 

[TopCat]

As for Bdsh, with no offense i want to say that Bdsh is just doing every thing to please india(a country that no person give a fcuk about in Pakistan), sorry to say but Bdshis consider indians as Africans consider Americans, it is just like a proxy state of india & will soon reunite with india(this is my analysis & you are free to disagree).

You are trying to assess the IND-BD relationship with the view of PK-IND relationship. This is the fundamental differences. BD does not have major issues like PK with India specially issues related to territorial dispute. Yes we have minor issues like water, border management and trade. Its not that India is not engaging itself but we also need to understand their internal political dynamics as the central government is very weak.

Other than trade, BD has very little to gain from India. Our total foreign diplomacy is based on trade and we dont want to just igone 1 billion people market right across the border. Also, as we are surrounded by India in all side, the only cheap source of our raw materials and essentials are from India. So, when dealing with India we got to be rational and should not act like as if we are at the state of war like Pakistan.

But there are a lot of avenue where we can improve our dealing with India and it will depend mostly in the willingness of India.

I think you don't know much about Pakistan. Pakistan's culture is Sufism & majority people are followers of it, it teaches us tolerance.

Also the main problem in Pakistan is bad governance & lack of leadership, Pakistan can rise to the heights of sky today only if it gets a good leadership.

What sufism thought is not a matter anymore as Pakistan is one of the most volatile country in the world as we speak now. Pakistan does not need to rise to the heights of the sky which is just bs rather run as fast as you can while on the ground.

Agreed whole-heartedly. Pakistan was unfortunate to have its 'Ataturk' die just after its independence. Turkey's Ataturk governed the country for about 20 years and laid a very good, Quranic foundation for the country, a reason why Turkey is the most advanced Islamic country today.

Jinnah saved himself as he died very early. All other secular leaders were kicked out of the scene within few years of independence. Jinnah would had been removed as well. Trust me.
Kemal had army in his side, Jinnah had none.

 

[Tshering22]

I doubt this could be possible because if it does happen, then the whole reason for Pakistan's existence as a new nation would cease to exist.

It is a nation based on only one pillar and that is religion. Please don't take it otherwise but many Pakistanis agree with this bit.

 

[TopCat]

I doubt this could be possible because if it does happen, then the whole reason for Pakistan's existence as a new nation would cease to exist.

It is a nation based on only one pillar and that is religion. Please don't take it otherwise but many Pakistanis agree with this bit.

The whole reason for PK and BD were to home majority of muslim population of erstwhile India. The whole reason was later twisted as if PK was created for the sole purpose of Islam. PK can still be secular if it wishes being a muslim country.

 

[American Pakistani]

You are trying to assess the IND-BD relationship with the view of PK-IND relationship. This is the fundamental differences. BD does not have major issues like PK with India specially issues related to territorial dispute. Yes we have minor issues like water, border management and trade. Its not that India is not engaging itself but we also need to understand their internal political dynamics as the central government is very weak.

Other than trade, BD has very little to gain from India. Our total foreign diplomacy is based on trade and we dont want to just igone 1 billion people market right across the border. Also, as we are surrounded by India in all side, the only cheap source of our raw materials and essentials are from India. So, when dealing with India we got to be rational and should not act like as if we are at the state of war like Pakistan.

But there are a lot of avenue where we can improve our dealing with India and it will depend mostly in the willingness of India.



What sufism thought is not a matter anymore as Pakistan is one of the most volatile country in the world as we speak now. Pakistan does not need to rise to the heights of the sky which is just bs rather run as fast as you can while on the ground.



Jinnah saved himself as he died very early. All other secular leaders were kicked out of the scene within few years of independence. Jinnah would had been removed as well. Trust me.
Kemal had army in his side, Jinnah had none.

It seems you have zeero knowledge of Jinnah & Pakistan. Pak Army was & is strongly patriot to Jinnah(R.A). If Jinnah would've been alive & Pak Army generals order Army Jawans to over throw Jinnah's govt, the Army Jawans would've been refused to accept it. Also i would like you not to talk about him if you don't know. Pakistan's main problems started after Zia ul Haq era.

Rest of your post is rant & BS & i don't feel it necessary to reply.

 

[TopCat]

It seems you have zeero knowledge of Jinnah & Pakistan. Pak Army was & is strongly patriot to Jinnah(R.A). If Jinnah would've been alive & Pak Army generals order Army Jawans to over throw Jinnah's govt, the Army Jawans would've been refused to accept it. Also i would like you not to talk about him if you don't know. Pakistan's main problems started after Zia ul Haq era.

Rest of your post is rant & BS & i don't feel it necessary to reply.

Sure... whatever makes you happy.

 

[King Solomon]

Turkey is secular, what Quranic foundation?

If you would only read what is advised in the Quran yourself...

Anyway,won't get myself into any religious debate here.

 

[Scum]

Turkey is secular, what Quranic foundation?

That itself is a quranic foundation. Let there be no compulsion in religion.

 

[Rusty]

i am more interested in capitalism than common laws. Interest is forbidden in Islam. Bangladesh wholly runs on the interest banking system. A country like iran or saudi can run eithout charging interest rates, but Bangladesh cannot, all our mega projects or small projects are due to bank loans which charge interest. I couldn't care less about murder, rape or theft.

So your whole argument is that because Bangladesh uses interest, we should abandon Sharia?

There is a new and rapidly growing sector of banking called "Islamic Banking"
It proposes many solutions to the problem of interest.
Remember, it was because of intrest that the Banking industry collapsed in 2008.
Intrest destroys so many peoples lives, and it makes the rich richer while it keeps the poor poor.

Once again, just because the west does it, doesn't make it better.
in fact it is worse.
And Islamic law can offer solutions to problems faced by our people.

Agreed whole-heartedly. Pakistan was unfortunate to have its 'Ataturk' die just after its independence. Turkey's Ataturk governed the country for about 20 years and laid a very good, Quranic foundation for the country, a reason why Turkey is the most advanced Islamic country today.

The reason Turkey is the most advanced Islamic country today is because of a practicing Muslim named Erdogan.
Ataturk all but destroyed Turkey and even today is one of the most oppressive regimes in the world if you are a Muslim.

After Muslims see Turkish "secularism" can you really blame us for rejecting it?
Just like how Western Europe rejected communism after they saw it in action.

 

[Armstrong]

Jinnah saved himself as he died very early. All other secular leaders were kicked out of the scene within few years of independence. Jinnah would had been removed as well. Trust me.
Kemal had army in his side, Jinnah had none.

Jinnah had the people ! I remember my Grandfather telling me about a Muslim League Jalsa that he attended in Punjab (I've forgotten where was it exactly...sorry !) and Jinnah came to address the People ! Thousands had come from as far flung rural areas as one could imagine and had gathered there to hear Jinnah talk. Naturally Jinnah delivered his entire speech in English and apart from a few dozen people most couldn't understand a word of what was being said, but there was mind drop silence throughout the 20 min long speech ! So my grandfather turns to his left and asks the first person he was sitting with ' Aap ko samajh aa rahiee hai ke yeh kiya keh rahain hain ? - Do you understand what he is saying ?' and the man replied 'Nahin, par jo bhii kuch keh rahai hain sahi keh rahai hain - No, but whatever he is saying is correct '. My friend such was our reverence for Jinnah ! No we wouldn't have kicked him out of the scene....we would have followed him to whatever end he would wanted us to !

I doubt this could be possible because if it does happen, then the whole reason for Pakistan's existence as a new nation would cease to exist.

It is a nation based on only one pillar and that is religion. Please don't take it otherwise but many Pakistanis agree with this bit.

Not the whole reason ! Pakistan was not only about the preservation of the Muslim Ideology but also about escaping the growing, perceived, discrimination by the Muslims of India ! Had Mr.Nehru and the rest of the Congress been a little more accommodating and agreed to the constitutional guarantees demanded by the Muslim League and then later autonomy, then there wouldn't be a Pakistan today !

That itself is a quranic foundation. Let there be no compulsion in religion.

'Let there be no compulsion in religion' equals 'Let there be no compulsion in religion' . Period ! It talks about tolerance which is neither unique to secularity nor religiosity in political parlance ! The statement that a system of Governance derived from Islam is Secular, is an oxymoron !

 

[Skies]

I think PK will start to improve in future and BD will go down. Just let come the BAL again. PK has batter geo-graphical importance and economical opportunities. PK is a nuclear armed country and it was bigger threats like USA, India. Moreover, they are victim of WOT. Was PK in such bad condition before 9/11? No. I think if the WOT is over and PK can make theie tribal people educated then PK will thrive.

No PK has nothing to learn from BD execpt developmental NGO activities and some rural level development activities. Rather I think BD learned more from PK when we were one country like how to run government and administration.

PK has cultutal diversity and its own class. No need to compare with BD.

BD's revenue comes from garment, remittance, shipbreaking, Pharmaceticals, textiles and now a days from outsourcing. No heavy industry yet. They reason of thriving Pharma industry is once upon a time there were many world renound phatmaceutical companise presented in BD that were acquired or leave their operations in BD later. So BD got world class experience inheriently.

PK will get money from more industies than BD's these industries including arms/defence industry.

 

[TopCat]

I think PK will start to improve in future and BD will go down. Just let come the BAL again. PK has batter geo-graphical importance and economical opportunities. PK is a nuclear armed country and it was bigger threats like USA, India. Moreover, they are victim of WOT. Was PK in such bad condition before 9/11? No. I think if the WOT is over and PK can make theie tribal people educated then PK will thrive.

No PK has nothing to learn from BD execpt developmental NGO activities and some rural level development activities. Rather I think BD learned more from PK when we were one country like how to run government and administration.

PK has cultutal diversity and its own class. No need to compare with BD.

BD's revenue comes from garment, remittance, shipbreaking, Pharmaceticals, textiles and now a days from outsourcing. No heavy industry yet. They reason of thriving Pharma industry is once upon a time there were many world renound phatmaceutical companise presented in BD that were acquired or leave their operations in BD later. So BD got world class experience inheriently.

PK will get money from more industies than BD's these industries including arms/defence industry.

Bangladesh overtook Pakistan in Export earning this year. Sorry mate to burst your bubble.