Bangladesh Navy

[Arthur]

What's your source or rational for this wild estimates.

Both Thailand and Argentina possessed light carriers with the ARA Veinticinco de Mayo having 19900 tonnes displacement and the HTMS Chakri naruebet being 11486 tonnes diplacement.
Unfortunately no one builds fleet carriers this small anymore with the smallest under construction being the almost complete 40000 tone INS Vikrant.

If Bangladesh goes for a carrier it will most like be an LHD which come in the range of 15000 - 25000 tonnes and are much more manageable and also suits their current doctrine.

They can go for the VSTOL 26000 tonne Juan Carlos Class but they will have to sell their soul to the US for F35s if they want to operate fixed wing aircraft from it.

Actually, some naval fighter like Mig-29Ks could take off the ski-jump deck with a taxiing of rough 100 meters with semi-oiled and semi-armed state.
As soon as the deck of the ship is longer than 200 meters , it could deploy MIG-29Ks even Su-33 inefficiently but theoretically.

China actually has something that's very intriguing for me. This....

22000 tons & 198 meter. Some redesign to turn it into a ski jump -conventional carrier seems plausible. Can support a fixed wing aircraft like Mig 29k.

 

[Species]

Jokes aside in the Naval scenario I am basing my posts on Bangladesh's forces goal 2030 initiative.
This involves comprehensive modernization of the Navy to assert control over the Bay of Bengal region and eventually to have influence in the strategic Malacca straits.

The modernization can be seen by the ramping up of local naval production and acquiring of submarines.

The consolidation of offshore oil and gas fields is also a catalyst for this modernization.

Am I right??
Feel free to add if I missed anything.

No, the power projection is targeted towards both western and eastern parts of Indian ocean, which means from Africa to Malacca. We need to safeguard our logistical supplies to our operations in the Mediterranean while Africa is set to emerge as a key source of raw materials for our industries and of certain food grains to ensure our food security.

 

[Ideas_R_Bulletproof]

We have got good presence in the western coast of Africa but I believe we should also increase our presence in the eastern coast.

actually we have a lot of work to do here....
these areas are being kept under unrest to prevent any normal operations.... we just have to let these countries breathe more easily.... thats what they need.....

military platforms are outcome of objectives.... objectives are not set based on platforms.... our objective is not to colonise Africa....

For that objective,carrier matters

well, thats for colonial occupation forces... we're not that....

 

[Stuttgart001]

22000 tons & 198 meter. Some redesign to turn it into a ski jump -conventional carrier seems plausible. Can support a fixed wing aircraft like Mig 29k.

It's not a good idea because of inefficiency.
In that situation, you could only launch a jet once a time. More worse, the work of takeoff and take back could not be conducted simultaneously.

It is practical that there must at least be a 250 meters long main deck with a angle deck .

well, thats for colonial occupation forces... we're not that....

I don't understand.
Most of nations do not use their carrier to occupy others but protect their maritime interest.

 

[Arthur]

It might work but it is faced with one fundamental problem for operation jet aircraft - the flight deck is straight ie: the landing stretch shares the takeoff stretch.

There is a quora link which better explains the issue but I can't post links yet. Any way I can message you the link??

You can potentially operate mig-29Ks off of it but you will have to deal with a very severe performance degradation. VTSOL aircraft will work better but the only viable one in the market is the F35.

Very good points.
Please, feel free to share. I think there is an option for IM in the forum. Go to members profile, click the message option. I haven't used the option yet though.

It's not a good idea because of inefficiency.
In that situation, you could only launch a jet once a time. More worse, the work of takeoff and take back could not be conducted simultaneously.

It is practical that there must at least be a 250 meters long main deck with a angle deck .

Very clear points there.

well, thats for colonial occupation forces... we're not that..

It's not like that. A ship isn't good or bad itself, it's what you aim to do with it.

When you are operating a fleet thousands of mile away at the African cost, you have to necessarily provide air & ASW cover over the Area Of Operations. How will you provide that?

Of coruse colonial & imperial expansonism is against the spirit of Bangladesh & Benglai's as a nation. We will look for interest mutually, we will work with the people not the opposite.

 

[Stuttgart001]

China actually has something that's very intriguing for me. This....

In post 2030, I think Liaoning and 001A could be available for BD and Pakistan, cause the two carriers with ski-jump deck are stopgap for PLAN.
With a 300 meter long deck, it could provide a substantial advantage on either defensive or offensive combat.

 

[Ideas_R_Bulletproof]

I don't understand.
Most of nations do not use their carrier to occupy others but protect their maritime interest.

most nations follow Western prescriptions to design ships.... that doesn't mean we also need to do that....

It's not like that. A ship isn't good or bad itself, it's what you aim to do with it.

a ship is designed according to the aim of the state.... we're not gonna get a ship to do what others wanted it to do.... purpose will determine what a ship would look like.... not the other way round....

When you are operating a fleet thousands of mile away at the African cost, you have to necessarily provide air & ASW cover over the Area Of Operations. How will you provide that?

does that mean that only carriers can carry aircraft?.... in which definition?
lets change that definition... shall we?

Of coruse colonial & imperial expansonism is against the spirit of Bangladesh & Benglai's as a nation. We will look for interest mutually, we will work with the people not the opposite.

[/QUOTE]

exactly!!
work with the people.... not to work on top of the people.... right?
our ship designs will project a friendly perspective....

 

[Species]

actually we have a lot of work to do here....
these areas are being kept under unrest to prevent any normal operations.... we just have to let these countries breathe more easily.... thats what they need.....

military platforms are outcome of objectives.... objectives are not set based on platforms.... our objective is not to colonise Africa....



well, thats for colonial occupation forces... we're not that....

I think you misinterpreted; nobody is talking about colonization. But yes we need to increase our military cooperation with those countries, to build mutual trust as well as safeguarding our maritime interests.

The areas are still highly prone to piracy and there have been many instances of our ships being hijacked. As the economy grows, the pirates will increasingly target the Bangladeshi ships. That requires a military presence, obviously with mutual benefit with those countries.

 

[Stuttgart001]

I think you misinterpreted; nobody is talking about colonization. But yes we need to increase our military cooperation with those countries, to build mutual trust as well as safeguarding our maritime interests.

The areas are still highly prone to piracy and there have been many instances of our ships being hijacked. As the economy grows, the pirates will increasingly target the Bangladeshi ships. That requires a military presence, obviously with mutual benefit with those countries.

The carrier do make others listen to you more clearly and patiently.

 

[Michael Corleone]

did I talk about a carrier in my post?.... no?

see, Bangladesh is a global player.... its a reality.... take it, or leave it...
if you had been following the IORA summit in Jakarta, IPU conference in Dhaka, recognition of Kosovo, chairmanship of OPCW..... you were supposed to know that....

you'll soon learn of Bangladesh's stuff in Latin America as well.... already things are moving in Africa, Eastern Europe and Central Asia.... more to come.... these are not strategic, but geopolitical plays.... have some faith with this state....



I hope you know Bangladesh's aims.... right?



aircraft carrier is a dying breed.... its for those who fight 10,000 miles away from home and doesn't get access to a land base.... because nobody likes them.... is not gonna be same for us....

we'll develop new categories.... new purpose requires new categories.... old purpose is gone; so is old categories...

Bangladesh might lose the competition in manufacturing sector trade like pointed out in latest wendover production video that talks about using northern passage to travel through pacific and Atlantic... but if Bangladesh can increase the volume and straight it out in Panama Canal.... maybe just maybe there is a chance of avoiding it

The aircraft carrier is really costly to sustain .
But who knows. You know a lot of medium nations have or used to have carrier，like Thailand and Argentina which are both smaller than BD in terms of population.
Since BD's economy is developed fastest in south Asian nations now, the financial situation would be very well in the future.
As soon as the economy grows continuously, sustaining a conventional carrier is not a big deal for BD.


Believe me. Making a practical aircraft is more difficult than sustaining a carrier technically.
There're more than 10 nations owning carriers but only a few could make aircrafts.


It is the trend that more and more nations would have carriers .
Because of the globalization , the maritime route is very important to those nations which have huge trade with others.

I don't think the navy seniors are even considering or having the idea tossed around, of aircraft carriers in bd navy. It just has no place in modern world and future of warfare. (I am being breif without explaining why)

Before aircraft carrier we need to learn how to make a aircraft. We are not deluded like our other neighbor.

Oh man even if it's a light attack jet aircraft like a k8 that will fly in 2021... I would be so happy. Let's see what the future beholds

 

[Ideas_R_Bulletproof]

I think you misinterpreted; nobody is talking about colonization. But yes we need to increase our military cooperation with those countries, to build mutual trust as well as safeguarding our maritime interests.

I didn't say it would be easy for you to understand what I had been talking about....
is it written on a knife that it can cut things?..... no.... you just know that it cuts.... right?
that knowledge is based on info that you have received already.... I was talking about that knowledge about ship categories.... currently we know that destroyers protect fleets, because we have received info that destroyers are being designed to protect fleets.... if something newer is designed by someone else, you'll talking of that to.... right? ..... think about the USN's LCS, HSV, MLP, etc..... those were totally new categories.... where did those fit into your imagination?.... can you explain what were those for, unless the designer told you so?

ship types are introduced with a purpose.... I was just challenging those purpose.... we have different purpose, hence we need different categories that are currently not categorised by Western navies...

The areas are still highly prone to piracy and there have been many instances of our ships being hijacked. As the economy grows, the pirates will increasingly target the Bangladeshi ships. That requires a military presence, obviously with mutual benefit with those countries.

agreed..... fully!!

Bangladesh might lose the competition in manufacturing sector trade

competition?
competition to serve, right? .....
thats called dependency.....
global players are not created that way.... national ambition doesn't mix with dependency....

 

[Bilal9]

LHD's with helis are also capable of amphibious assaults.

Observe stern gate mating of USS WASP, an LHD with a landing craft carrying trucks and Humvees off of the coast of Thailand.

Does Bangladesh need a scenario like this (amphibious assault) in its military strategy?

Some newer, smaller LHD's (termed LPD's or landing platform/dock) in the USN like the USS San Antonio carries AAV-7s (Assault Amphibious Vehicles) in its well deck, doing away with the need for landing craft altogether.

AAV's

The Chinese equivalent of the USS San Antonio, The PLAN Type 071 would cost a third of it.
While retaining most of the capability. The Malaysians are considering this purchase.

The equivalent Indonesian LPD is the Makassar class, for this ToT was obtained by PT PAL from Korea. The Filipinos received a similar LPD built from PT PAL in Indonesia

 

[Michael Corleone]

I didn't say it would be easy for you to understand what I had been talking about....
is it written on a knife that it can cut things?..... no.... you just know that it cuts.... right?
that knowledge is based on info that you have received already.... I was talking about that knowledge about ship categories.... currently we know that destroyers protect fleets, because we have received info that destroyers are being designed to protect fleets.... if something newer is designed by someone else, you'll talking of that to.... right? ..... think about the USN's LCS, HSV, MLP, etc..... those were totally new categories.... where did those fit into your imagination?.... can you explain what were those for, unless the designer told you so?

ship types are introduced with a purpose.... I was just challenging those purpose.... we have different purpose, hence we need different categories that are currently not categorised by Western navies...



agreed..... fully!!



competition?
competition to serve, right? .....
thats called dependency.....
global players are not created that way.... national ambition doesn't mix with dependency....

Competition in north eastern American market for ex.

 

[Ideas_R_Bulletproof]

Competition in north eastern American market for ex.

we cannot let our strategic goals be dependent on how we are granted access to the market in the United States.... they played around with Bangladesh for so many years with the market access thingy that it is not unknown to anyone here....

anyway, the national ambition and the resulting maritime forces build-up is not going to be dependent in any way on American will.... and that is fixed.... the state has already taken a pretty hard stance on this....

The equivalent Indonesian LPD is the Makassar class, for this ToT was obtained by PT PAL from Korea. The Filipinos received a similar LPD built from PT PAL in Indonesia

the Makassar-class is a good option for BN.....

on another point, such a unit is one of the options that BN should have.... among other options, we can bring up this option below-

"n September 1977 Eastern Queen was sold to the Bangladesh Shipping Corporation, carrying 930 passengers between Dacca and Singapore as the Hizbul Bahr. This continued until 1980 when Hizbul Bahr was sold to the Bangladesh Navy, for use as an accommodation ship. She was renamed Shaheed Salahuddin and was scrapped at Chittagong in 1985."

 

[Species]

I didn't say it would be easy for you to understand what I had been talking about....
is it written on a knife that it can cut things?..... no.... you just know that it cuts.... right?
that knowledge is based on info that you have received already.... I was talking about that knowledge about ship categories.... currently we know that destroyers protect fleets, because we have received info that destroyers are being designed to protect fleets.... if something newer is designed by someone else, you'll talking of that to.... right? ..... think about the USN's LCS, HSV, MLP, etc..... those were totally new categories.... where did those fit into your imagination?.... can you explain what were those for, unless the designer told you so?

ship types are introduced with a purpose.... I was just challenging those purpose.... we have different purpose, hence we need different categories that are currently not categorised by Western navies...

Hmmmm, I can't dispute that, but since we have so far followed the conventional categorization and objectives, do you think the Navy has any plans to initiate proper research on this matter? This is going to require massive innovation and effort, even China hasn't done that.