Bangladesh Navy

[TopCat]

I was saying that the attack boat philosophy is practiced by your Navy - especially considering how many FAC-M's you guys have. I was not implying that you use OSA class boats.

Thanks for the rest of the information by the way.

Well why BD did not continue on that strategy? is it because BD is more into blue water instead of coastal defense?

 

[Aung Zaya]

I was saying that the attack boat philosophy is practiced by your Navy - especially considering how many FAC-M's you guys have. I was not implying that you use OSA class boats.

Thanks for the rest of the information by the way.

building many missile boats and gun boats is not only for ' Hit and Run ' but also to defense our long coastal line which is over 2200 km.. after losing nearly 40% of navy ships in 2008 cyclone Nergis , building these boats is fast ,cheap and effective programme to fill the blank..and it's still lethal.. remember..? in 2008 maritime boundary dispute the ships facing with ur F25 BNS BB were 771 and these missile boats.. and that's all what we have at that time moreover ' Hit and Run ' strategy will never completely be useless after we build naval data link system..

 

[Bilal9]

Well why BD did not continue on that strategy? is it because BD is more into blue water instead of coastal defense?

Well BD will always be a brown or at best green water Navy. BN doesn't have blue water aspirations that I know of. From wiki,

Brown water
The brown water environment starts from the shoreline through to the end of the continental shelf. A brown-water navy focuses on coastal operations and primarily takes a defensive role.

Green water
The green water environment extends from the outer edge of the brown-water layer past any continental shelves, archipelagos and islands; perhaps a few hundred miles from shore. It is the most important maritime arena, including most coastal traffic and territorial waters, in which are found the great majority of a nation’s maritime police, customs, environmental, and economic concerns. A green-water navy is capable of defense of its nation in depth and is a significant offensive force within its territory.

Blue water
The blue water environment extends from the outer edge of the green-water zone through to the deep ocean of the world. A blue-water navy can project its nation's power throughout the world. The blue water policy was a long-standing political philosophy in Britain in the eighteenth century, which sought to advance British power through use of the Royal Navy, although the term "blue water" did not appear until 1834.[5]

About the attack boat concept, using gunboats/attack boats or even using stealthy FAC-M's like Myanmar is still an older concept (and in some ways obsolete). You sneak up with a few C-801's against a larger target (frigate, destroyer), launch those and then run away fast. The problem is that this does not work very well against sophisticated naval targets like well-protected frigates. It may work against unprotected tankers or commercial targets. Provided a frigate finds you within radar range approaching to launch missiles - you will be history before you can push the launch button. That radar range with newer X and S band radars are getting wider by the day.

The attack boat philosophy used to be valid in the fifties when radar and sensor protection was less in vogue and less optimal than it is today. There are always a three-layered ring of close-in defense for Navy ships - of this the first, second and third layer of missile countermeasures (such as counter missiles, chaff/flares and CIWS) are extremely effective against AshM's like C801s, as demonstrated in the Gulf wars by US Navy Arleigh Burke class vessels.

A number of Bangladesh Navy vessels boast at least two - if not all three layers of this defensive capability. Eventually all BN vessels as small as corvette class are supposed to have these survivable technologies incorporated. It is only a matter of time before this makes fast missile boats obsolete.

FAC-M's themselves are too small to have defensive sensors and protection against even basic guided projectiles. They cannot even survive a direct hit from naval Manpads which can be launched from Padma class vessels (350 tons). FAC-M's need to find larger targets to spend their missile payloads on. They can't be wasting it on say - Padma class vessels, and we are planning to have twenty plus of those as well as countermeasures. It will ultimately be a 'numbers' game if 'swarm tactics' are all you need to employ.

The Gulf war also demonstrated that the 'FAC-M tactics' and 'Swarm tactics' (latter using massive numbers of 107mm rocket equipped speedboats) that the Iranians employed against simpler Iraqi targets worked but they did not work so well against sophisticated sensor and countermeasure-equipped adversaries like the US Navy.

building many missile boats and gun boats is not only for ' Hit and Run ' but also to defense our long coastal line which is over 2200 km.. after losing nearly 40% of navy ships in 2008 cyclone Nergis , building these boats is fast ,cheap and effective programme to fill the blank..and it's still lethal.. remember..? in 2008 maritime boundary dispute the ships facing with ur F25 BNS BB were 771 and these missile boats.. and that's all what we have at that time moreover ' Hit and Run ' strategy will never completely be useless after we build naval data link system..

UMS Anawrahta is really no match for F25 BNS BB. However I see your point.

Now UMS Kyan Sit Tha class - that's another story.

But I hope that there is never another reason for showdown.

And that is partly why your navy Chief invited his Bangladeshi counterpart to Burma to dispel these issues.

Both countries should abide by the UNCLOS decision on blue economy jurisdiction and boundary issues.

 

[Aung Zaya]

UMS Anawrahta is really no match for F25 BNS BB. However I see your point.

Now UMS Kyan Sit Tha class - that's another story.

But I hope that there is never another reason for showdown.

And that is partly why your navy Chief invited his Bangladeshi counterpart to Burma to dispel these issues.

Both countries should abide by the UNCLOS decision on blue economy jurisdiction and boundary issues.

sure..!! 771 at the time was fitted outdated AshM C-801.. no match for BNS BB which is fitted with italian otomat missiles and we know it.. 771 is flag ships of Myanmar Navy in 2008 and no other choice.. BTW if there is no problem with BD , we may still stick with this 771 and outdated C 801...

 

[BDforever]

@Bilal9 BD Navy does have blue water Navy ambition, and the target is under force goal 2030.
@Aung Zaya according to my analysis , it seems BD Navy going to out match Myanmar Navy from 2020 and onward.

 

[Nike]

blue water, is a kind of forces can be projected at far away distance far from any meaningful logistic support base and can still conduct their operation and duty without much problems.

The current blue water Navy is not much only USN, Royal Navy and French Navy. Russian had limited capability in this regard, China still lacking in support units but i expect them to achieve the status much sooner, Indian Navy is still lagged by their lacks of logistic support units and foreign base. ROKN, Marina Navy, JMSDF, and other peer like Spanish Navy is just behind the above countries i mentioned. The rest of the world is just comprised of Green Water and brown water Navy.

Bangladesh Navy is in lack in everything, dont have much support logistic units, their MPA is just handful or we can count less than what my hand finger had. Helicopter units is severely lacking, lacking proper experiences in conducting major Naval drill or hosting such events, surface combatant assets mostly is old ships with handful unit of small corvettes not suited for long range duties, not to mention your Naval air arms is negligible.....

 

[Arthur]

blue water, is a kind of forces can be projected at far away distance far from any meaningful logistic support base and can still conduct their operation and duty without much problems.

The current blue water Navy is not much only USN, Royal Navy and French Navy. Russian had limited capability in this regard, China still lacking in support units but i expect them to achieve the status much sooner, Indian Navy is still lagged by their lacks of logistic support units and foreign base. ROKN, Marina Navy, JMSDF, and other peer like Spanish Navy is just behind the above countries i mentioned. The rest of the world is just comprised of Green Water and brown water Navy.

Bangladesh Navy is in lack in everything, dont have much support logistic units, their MPA is just handful or we can count less than what my hand finger had. Helicopter units is severely lacking, lacking proper experiences in conducting major Naval drill or hosting such events, surface combatant assets mostly is old ships with handful unit of small corvettes not suited for long range duties, not to mention your Naval air arms is negligible.....

That's why it's termed as "ambition". And even then 'limited capability' is what they target. And it's not like they are going after it this or coming decade. BN top brass has good idea of what it takes to reach their goal. Please try study BN's modernisation plan & the approach they have taken.

 

[bd_4_ever]

Well, realistically Bangladesh cannot be a blue water navy by 2030. It will take us much, much more longer. Larger navies such as Spanish, Russian, Chinese, Koreans havent even reached that level. I wouldnt even consider us close.

 

[TopCat]

Well, realistically Bangladesh cannot be a blue water navy by 2030. It will take us much, much more longer. Larger navies such as Spanish, Russian, Chinese, Koreans havent even reached that level. I wouldnt even consider us close.

I was not talking about empire building or project power but navy should have capability to oprate and take role in far away places that we are doing in lebanon right now.

 

[bd_4_ever]

I was not talking about empire building or project power but navy should have capability to oprate and take role in far away places that we are doing in lebanon right now.

I understand what you mean but what we are doing in Lebanon is a completely different context to say, war times. Surely we need to build up the capabilities and I am all for being blue-water but will take us ages.

 

[Michael Corleone]

I understand what you mean but what we are doing in Lebanon is a completely different context to say, war times. Surely we need to build up the capabilities and I am all for being blue-water but will take us ages.

Ages like in 100 years? More like we can operate *** blue water navy atm but we are stretching our legs too wide...
These things need long time and I agree with you on that... but I don't see its unachievable by or under 2030...

 

[bd_4_ever]

Ages like in 100 years? More like we can operate *** blue water navy atm but we are stretching our legs too wide...
These things need long time and I agree with you on that... but I don't see its unachievable by or under 2030...

2030 is an overly optimistic target for being a blue water navy.

 

[Aung Zaya]

@Bilal9 BD Navy does have blue water Navy ambition, and the target is under force goal 2030.
@Aung Zaya according to my analysis , it seems BD Navy going to out match Myanmar Navy from 2020 and onward.

if u say out number.. it may be..
if u say out match... it's too early to say..

 

[Mage]

2030 is an overly optimistic target for being a blue water navy.

It can be achievable by 2130 tho

 

[BDforever]

if u say out number.. it may be..
if u say out match... it's too early to say..

at least 3 more frigates, atleast 3 more C13B corvettes, at least 3 more Durjoy class LPC, 2 more submarines are coming in this time. now go figure