Bangladesh Air Force

[bluesky]

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/j-7-specs.htm

Jianjiji J-7/F-7 Specifications
Role Interceptor; ground attack; trainer
Designer Mikoyan-Gurevich Design Bureau, Soviet Union/Russia
611 Aircraft Design Institute, Chengdu
Manufacturer Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (J-7)
Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (J-7I, J-7II, J-7C/D, J-7E/G, J-7FS)
Guizhou Aviation Industrial Group Co. (J-7C/D, JJ-7/FT-7)
Variants
J-7
J-7I F-7A
J-7II F-7B
F-7BG F-7M Airguard
F-7MP Skybolt
F-7P Skybolt
J-7IIA
J-7III J-7C
J-7IV J-7D
J-7E F-7N
J-7G F-7MG
F-7PG
J-7IIH J-7H
J-7FS
JJ-7 FT-7
BG = Bangladesh
NI = Nigeria
P = Pakistan
S = Sri Lanka
First flight
Jan 1966 J-7
Jun 1969 J-7I
Dec 1978 J-7II
Aug 1983 F-7M
07 Mar 1984 J-7IIA
26 Apr 1984 J-7C
09 Jun 1988 F-7MP
May 1990 J-7E
20 Aug 1991 J-7D
Jun 2002 J-7G
CREW J-7 (F-7) One
JJ-7 (FT-7) Two
DIMENSIONS
Length 14.855m (J-7II);
15.591m (J-7C);
14.885m (J-7E)
Wingspan 7.154m (J-7II, J-7C);
8.32m (J-7E)
Height 4.103m (J-7II/E);
4.251m (J-7C)
Wing area 23 square meters
WEIGHTS
Empty 5,275kg
Normal take-off 7,370kg (J-7II);
7,680kg (J-7E)
Max take-off 9,100kg (J-7E)
Normal landing 5,480kg (J-7II)
Fuel capacity 2,080kg (J-7II);
4,165kg (J-7E)
PROPULSION
Powerplant 1X Liyang WP-7 (J-7I)
1X Liyang WP-7B (J-7II, F-7A/B)
1X Liyang WP-7N (F-7MG/PG)
1X Liyang WP-13F (J-7C/D, J-7E/G, F-7MG/PG)
Thrust (dry) WP-7: 38.245kN (3,900kg; 8,598lb)
WP-13F: 44.1kN (4,497kg, 9,914lb)
Thrust (afterburning) WP-7: 56.388kN (5,750kg; 12,677lb)
WP-7B: 58.8kN (5,996kg; 13,219lb)
WP-7N: 59.83kN (6,100kg; 13,450lb)
WP-13F: 65.17kN (6,645kg; 14,650lb)
PERFORMANCE
Max level speed Mach 2.0 (high altitude)
Max climb rate 180m/s (sea-level)
Service ceiling 18,800m
Range (without refuelling)
Ferry range 1,740km (two AAMs and two 480 liter drop tanks); or
2,230km (three 720 liter drop tanks)
Combat radius
45 minutes flight and 5 minutes combat Loitering two AAMs three 720 liter drop tanks 11,000m altitude
650km Long-range interception two AAMs three 720 liter drop tanks Mach 1.5 speed
600km Long-range interdiction two 150kg bombs three 720 liter drop tanks hi-lo-hi
370km Close air support four rocket launchers no drop tank lo-lo-lo
In-flight refuelling No
G limit +7G
ARMAMENT
Fixed weapon

• J-7: 1X Type 30-I (30mm), 60 rounds

• J-7I: 2X Type 30-I (30mm), 60 rounds per gun

• J-7C/D: 2X Type 23-III (23mm), 100 rounds per gun

• J-7E: 1X Type 30-I (30mm)

• F-7MG: 2X Type 30-I (30mm)

• J-7G: 1X Type 30-I (30mm)

Externalhardpoints 3 (J-7/I); or
5 (J-7C/D/E)
Air-to-air missiles

• PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R550, AIM-9

• Bomb 250/500kg free-bomb

• Other 57/90/130mm unguided rocket launcher

AVIONICS

• Flight control WL-7 radio compass; 0101 HR A2 altitude radio altimeter; LTC-2 horizon gyro; XS-6 marker beacon receiver; VOR; Distance Measure Equipment (DME); Instrument Landing System (ILS)

• Fire control SM-3A optical sight (J-7); AFS-3A lead-computing sight with Type 222 ranging radar input (J-7II); GEC-Marconi Type 956 HUD, and weapon-aiming computer system with input from the GEC-Marconi Type 226 'Skyranger' ranging radar (F-7M/P); or Italian Grifo-7 fire-control radar (F-7PG).

• Countermeasures South-West China Research Institute of Electronic Equipment KG-8602 RWR interfaced with the South-West China Research Institute of Electronic Equipment KG-8605 internal radar noise jammer and China National Import and Export Corporation GT-1 chaff/flare dispenser, and Type 602 'Odd Rods' IFF.

 

[Avicenna]

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/j-7-specs.htm

Jianjiji J-7/F-7 Specifications
Role Interceptor; ground attack; trainer
Designer Mikoyan-Gurevich Design Bureau, Soviet Union/Russia
611 Aircraft Design Institute, Chengdu
Manufacturer Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (J-7)
Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (J-7I, J-7II, J-7C/D, J-7E/G, J-7FS)
Guizhou Aviation Industrial Group Co. (J-7C/D, JJ-7/FT-7)
Variants
J-7
J-7I F-7A
J-7II F-7B
F-7BG F-7M Airguard
F-7MP Skybolt
F-7P Skybolt
J-7IIA
J-7III J-7C
J-7IV J-7D
J-7E F-7N
J-7G F-7MG
F-7PG
J-7IIH J-7H
J-7FS
JJ-7 FT-7
BG = Bangladesh
NI = Nigeria
P = Pakistan
S = Sri Lanka
First flight
Jan 1966 J-7
Jun 1969 J-7I
Dec 1978 J-7II
Aug 1983 F-7M
07 Mar 1984 J-7IIA
26 Apr 1984 J-7C
09 Jun 1988 F-7MP
May 1990 J-7E
20 Aug 1991 J-7D
Jun 2002 J-7G
CREW J-7 (F-7) One
JJ-7 (FT-7) Two
DIMENSIONS
Length 14.855m (J-7II);
15.591m (J-7C);
14.885m (J-7E)
Wingspan 7.154m (J-7II, J-7C);
8.32m (J-7E)
Height 4.103m (J-7II/E);
4.251m (J-7C)
Wing area 23 square meters
WEIGHTS
Empty 5,275kg
Normal take-off 7,370kg (J-7II);
7,680kg (J-7E)
Max take-off 9,100kg (J-7E)
Normal landing 5,480kg (J-7II)
Fuel capacity 2,080kg (J-7II);
4,165kg (J-7E)
PROPULSION
Powerplant 1X Liyang WP-7 (J-7I)
1X Liyang WP-7B (J-7II, F-7A/B)
1X Liyang WP-7N (F-7MG/PG)
1X Liyang WP-13F (J-7C/D, J-7E/G, F-7MG/PG)
Thrust (dry) WP-7: 38.245kN (3,900kg; 8,598lb)
WP-13F: 44.1kN (4,497kg, 9,914lb)
Thrust (afterburning) WP-7: 56.388kN (5,750kg; 12,677lb)
WP-7B: 58.8kN (5,996kg; 13,219lb)
WP-7N: 59.83kN (6,100kg; 13,450lb)
WP-13F: 65.17kN (6,645kg; 14,650lb)
PERFORMANCE
Max level speed Mach 2.0 (high altitude)
Max climb rate 180m/s (sea-level)
Service ceiling 18,800m
Range (without refuelling)
Ferry range 1,740km (two AAMs and two 480 liter drop tanks); or
2,230km (three 720 liter drop tanks)
Combat radius
45 minutes flight and 5 minutes combat Loitering two AAMs three 720 liter drop tanks 11,000m altitude
650km Long-range interception two AAMs three 720 liter drop tanks Mach 1.5 speed
600km Long-range interdiction two 150kg bombs three 720 liter drop tanks hi-lo-hi
370km Close air support four rocket launchers no drop tank lo-lo-lo
In-flight refuelling No
G limit +7G
ARMAMENT
Fixed weapon

• J-7: 1X Type 30-I (30mm), 60 rounds

• J-7I: 2X Type 30-I (30mm), 60 rounds per gun

• J-7C/D: 2X Type 23-III (23mm), 100 rounds per gun

• J-7E: 1X Type 30-I (30mm)

• F-7MG: 2X Type 30-I (30mm)

• J-7G: 1X Type 30-I (30mm)

Externalhardpoints 3 (J-7/I); or
5 (J-7C/D/E)
Air-to-air missiles

• PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R550, AIM-9

• Bomb 250/500kg free-bomb

• Other 57/90/130mm unguided rocket launcher

AVIONICS

• Flight control WL-7 radio compass; 0101 HR A2 altitude radio altimeter; LTC-2 horizon gyro; XS-6 marker beacon receiver; VOR; Distance Measure Equipment (DME); Instrument Landing System (ILS)

• Fire control SM-3A optical sight (J-7); AFS-3A lead-computing sight with Type 222 ranging radar input (J-7II); GEC-Marconi Type 956 HUD, and weapon-aiming computer system with input from the GEC-Marconi Type 226 'Skyranger' ranging radar (F-7M/P); or Italian Grifo-7 fire-control radar (F-7PG).

• Countermeasures South-West China Research Institute of Electronic Equipment KG-8602 RWR interfaced with the South-West China Research Institute of Electronic Equipment KG-8605 internal radar noise jammer and China National Import and Export Corporation GT-1 chaff/flare dispenser, and Type 602 'Odd Rods' IFF.

I think you stated before you are not that familiar with military aviaiton.

That being said, I would take a JF-17 block 2 over a F-7BGI any day of the week.

 

[Tanveer666]

F-7 BGI is the most advanced of all Chengdu F-7 created so far. In fact, F-7 BGI is a very good stop gap 3.5+ option for BAF while run upto the 4th Gen Fighters.

1) F-7 BGI has a speed of Mach 2.2
2) 7 Hard-points to carry Air to Air missiles , Laser guided bomb, GPS Guided Bombs, Drop tanks
3) Full glass cockpit.
4) can carry 3000 kg Bomb including Chinese Laser Guided Bombs.
5) F-7 BGI has KLJ-6F radar Fire control Radar with 86 km+ Range. 37km is the BVR. It can track 6 and engage 2 enemy aircraft simultaneously.
6) F-7 BGI can carry C-704 Antiship Missiles (Therefore maritime also possible)
7) afterburner: F-7 BGI (82 kN) thrust
8) Missiles procurement are currently unknown for F-7 BGI but they can fire the 70-75 km range PL-12,PL-11 and also PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R.550 and AIM-9 .
9) F-7 BGI got J-7G2 Airframe with double delta wing. This improves the lift at high angles of attack and delays or prevents stalling.
10) G-limit: +8 g / -3 g
11) Service ceiling: 17,500 m (57,420 ft) for F-7 BGI
12) 3 Multi functional HUD displays and Hotas.
13) Chinese Helmet Mounted Sights.

I find people who regularly criticize F-7 planes as obsolete. The above data sow it is not. In fact, it has more capabilities than the JF-17. Can someone come up with comparing data of JF-17 and tell us why BAF should discard F-7 and induct JF-17? Gripen and other Russian frames are different.

Any credible source to back all this up?

 

[TopCat]

I think you stated before you are not that familiar with military aviaiton.

That being said, I would take a JF-17 block 2 over a F-7BGI any day of the week.

They are asking 35 million for a JF-17. I will buy 4 F-7 instead of a single JF-17 any day of the week

 

[AMG_12]

They are asking 35 million for a JF-17. I will buy 4 F-7 instead of a single JF-17 any day of the week

You're not only paying for the aircraft but the generation gap as well. Again, JF-17 is one of the only 4th generation fighter whose operation costs are extremely low. So all in all, it's a very good investment.

 

[bdslph]

They are asking 35 million for a JF-17. I will buy 4 F-7 instead of a single JF-17 any day of the week

there is a huge difference between Jf17 and F7

 

[TopCat]

there is a huge difference between Jf17 and F7

For 35 million we have many more options

 

[bluesky]

I think you stated before you are not that familiar with military aviaiton.

That being said, I would take a JF-17 block 2 over a F-7BGI any day of the week.

Yes, i am not familiar with military aviation. But, can you say why a 35 million dollar JF-17 would be better than a 15 million dollar F-7BGI when the former has many issues including the drag problem? Even its speed is lower than the latter (1.6 mach vs 2.0).

 

[TopCat]

Yes, i am not familiar with military aviation. But, can you say why a 35 million dollar JF-17 would be better than a 15 million dollar F-7BGI when the former has many issues including the drag problem? Even its speed is lower than the latter (1.6 mach vs 2.0).

The only thing about jf-17 it is capable of firing most of the chinese weapons. Thats about it.

 

[Avicenna]

Yes, i am not familiar with military aviation. But, can you say why a 35 million dollar JF-17 would be better than a 15 million dollar F-7BGI when the former has many issues including the drag problem? Even its speed is lower than the latter (1.6 mach vs 2.0).

Firstly, lets look at the time frame of the F-7BG and F-7BGI purchases. The BGs were delivered in 2006 and the BGI in 2013 approximately. At that time, the JF-17 was just enterting block 2 phase production. I would characterize the block 1 as an incomplete product. Additionally, your right, the price difference is tremendous and at that point in time I can see the wisdom of getting the F-7s, not to mention familiarity with the platform, ease of integration along the lines of training and maintainence. So I'm not making the arguement that BAF should have bought the JF-17 instead of the F-7 IN THAT TIME FRAME.

However, in comparing the 2 platforms in 2018 and also generally speaking, I would absolutely want the JF-17 block 2 and above over the F-7BGI.

Firstly, the proof is in the pudding, where the PAF will eventually have the platform as their main type to replace their F-7P and eventually non ROSE Mirage. That alone gives me confidence in the type. You can say that they dont really have an option otherwise politically, but do remember the JF-17 underwent a reconfiguration at some point during its development to better handle emerging Indian threats such as the Flanker. Its said the JF-17 received alot of input from the Russians and may acutally be based on their original MIG-33.

You mentioned top speed. So what? It takes alot of fuel and these types rarely if ever operationally approach their top speeds. Another member mentioned that the only difference is the JF-17's ability to fire more weapons from the Chinese inventory. Yea, I would say that important. Bangladesh better have a counter for the SD-10s that will soon be in Myanmar Air Force inventory. Active radar homing BVR is a game changer. Not to mention the PL-10 and other goodies that the Chinese are working on and fielded already.

Not to mention the block 3 which they are working on with AESA, new engine, HMS and probably newer weapon system capabilities.

So yea I would take a JF-17 over an F-7 any day of the week.

 

[The Ronin]

Doesn't the price rises with new block of JF-17? And what Block 3 will offer is already there with other fighters like Su-30, J-10, Mig-35 with more hard-point. So why bother comparing these two. JF-17 will be last option if BAF really become totally hopeless.

 

[Avicenna]

I would think block 3 is somewhat comparable to the Gripen.

BAF is held hostage to the Russians or Chinese. The West isnt willing to sell unless
Bangladesh is willing to spend.

Case in point, the Russians peddling hard to the BAF the Mig-35, to keep MIG in business, rather then selling the SU-30s outright.

 

[UKBengali]

I would think block 3 is somewhat comparable to the Gripen.

BAF is held hostage to the Russians or Chinese. The West isnt willing to sell unless
Bangladesh is willing to spend.

Case in point, the Russians peddling hard to the BAF the Mig-35, to keep MIG in business, rather then selling the SU-30s outright.

JF-17 Block 3 is a poor man's Gripen E - inferior in all aspects.

 

[Bilal9]

What?? No, these are wrong info. It has 5 hard point just like others, can't carry any anti-ship missiles.

We need a heavy duty (or even light-duty fighter) platform with a mid-body hardpoint which can carry a medium sized ALCM like the DENEL (Kentron Division) Torgos for anti-shipping mission purposes. Simply getting MRCA's and MMRCA's without pinpointing exact scenarios and missions they will be used for (or worse, for bragging rights hoping that will be a deterrent) is pointless. The South Africans (DENEL) developed the TORGOS for use with their Gripens. That is one option if you can adapt it to (integrate with) F-7BG launch and track systems. AFAIK F-7BG and Gripen are same weight class and same missile-weight capabilities.

Look at the use scenario for Pakistan's HATF/RA'AD and Mirage 5 and see what a homegrown missile and a decades old launch platform gives you. This is called bang-for-the-buck.

 

[Avicenna]

JF-17 Block 3 is a poor man's Gripen E - inferior in all aspects.

Yup and thats exactly what we are. Poor men.

I give the Pakistanis full credit in terms of the JF-17 program. What they did was really admirable. You have to remember what a difficult environment it was for them post Pressler amendment. Anytime a muslim nation embraces self sufficiency, albeit with some Chinese help, we should applaud it. They navigated a VERY difficult situation to field an operational fighter which they are staking the lions share of their air capabilities on.

Poor man's Gripen or not, kudos to Pakistan.