Bangladesh Air Force

[UKBengali]

I'd be willing to believe the Chinese media because of a few reasons.

1. J-10CE (export version) uses much more advanced AESA radar and the glass cockpit is more advanced and can achieve lock-on to the Gripens way earlier than the Gripen C/Ds can. Now Gripen E/F situation I have no idea. By the way it is common knowledge that the older F-16's in Thai inventory are even lower-rung than their Gripens electronics wise.

2. Aerodynamically J-10CE's use a front set of canards which afford very maneuverable set of movements at all above-stall speeds - much more so than the Gripens.

3. Like @UKBengali bhai mentioned - PL-15 missile launch capability is a big consideration.

4. Americans were not pleased with the Thais considering the J-10 (or any other Chinese fighter for that matter). It is understandable that by buying these J-10's (which are half the cost of the Gripen C/D's), Thailand is getting a way better bargain than the Gripens, powered with American jet engines. Bye bye dependency on uncle Sam. And there goes the American influence in the Asia Pacific neighborhood, one-by-one. In fact China might even sweeten the deal further by offering a 'friendship price'. We could be 'swung' by that kind of thing too.

No need for "friendship price" with China as BD is well able to afford the 40 million US dollar unit cost of J-10CE.
Munitions such as PL-15 missile may come to half that of Western ones.
What posters do not realise is that Chinese electronics has been ahead of Russia for many years and the gap with the West is narrowing all the time.

An advantage that J-10C has over Rafale is that it is canard-delta and optimised for air superiority and with it's 140KN WS-10B engine will reign supreme over Rafale in high altitude manouverability. Even though it may be a little inferior electronically it will have advantage in getting out the first BVR missile shot.

I say buy 2 squadrons of J-10CE and 1 squadron of refurbished F-16 Block 50/52 for the same cost as 1 squadron of brand new Eurofighter Tranche 3 and then BAF has enough for next 5 years before it needs to think about anything else.

 

[UKBengali]

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...-reveals-poor-performance-joint-exercise-rtaf

"The JAS-39 performance was at its worst inside the within visual range (WVR) envelope. Over a two-day period, PLAAF pilots shot down 25 Gripens at a loss of only one Su-27"
"Once the exercise transitioned to beyond visual range (BVR) combat, the superiority of the JAS-39 became readily apparent. The Swedish aircraft shot down 41 Su-27s over a period of four days with a loss of only nine JAS-39s."

Ok, the JAS-39C dominates the Chinese J-11A(1980s electronics) at BVR but loses at WVR.

"The Gripen’s Raytheon AIM-120 AAM also outranged the RVV-AE at 80km versus only 50 km for the Russian missile.

Now this is the critical factor here as the Gripen C could attack the J-11A way before the J-11A could get within range.

"In subsequent exercises the PLAAF fared better by sending the Chengdu J-10A"

Ok, so we can infer that the J-10A and the Gripen C may be equal overall by this statement.

"Li pointed out that the J-10C was more of a match for the JAS-39C/D in that “its active array radar significantly improves detection distance and multi-target attack capability, the DSI (divertless) air intake of the J-10C reduces the radar intercept area while the PL-15 missile increases the range, making it an over-the-horizon platform.”

Ok. the wording is a little ambiguous but I would think with the AESA radar and the long-range PL-15 missile, the J-10C could send volleys of missiles at the Gripen C before it could fire back. Gripen E and Meteor would be required to take on J-10C.


Now with the J-10C coming in at half or less the unit costs of new Western fighters and fairly cheap to operate, why would BAF not want the J-10C as it is from the only reliable supplier against India and could be brought in numbers to replace the F-7s?
Whatever advantage that Western fighters would still have over Chinese ones would probably be gone in 10-15 years and then BAF could get new radars and electronics for their J-10Cs from China.

@Avicenna
@Bilal9
@Arthur

 

[LKJ86]

Ok, so we can infer that the J-10A and the Gripen C may be equal overall by this statement.

But unfortunately, according to PLAAF, Gripen C was defeated by J-10A from BVR to WVR.

 

[UKBengali]

But unfortunately, according to PLAAF, Gripen C was defeated by J-10A from BVR to WVR.

Has the radar on the J-10A been upgraded?

 

[LKJ86]

Has the radar on the J-10A been upgraded?

Of course not yet.

 

[UKBengali]

Of course not yet.

Thai Gripen C's have the PS-05/A Mark 3 went radar that went into service in 2005. I doubt J-10A radar can match this but J-10A would have better high altitude manouverability and speed and so could fire first at Gripen C.

 

[LKJ86]

Thai Gripen C's have the PS-05/A Mark 3 went radar that went into service in 2005. I doubt J-10A radar can match this

J-10A began service in PLAAF in 2004.

Besides, you missed one thing: J-10A is a mediumweight fighter, while Gripen C a lightweight fighter. The size of J-10A's radar is much bigger than that of Gripen C.

 

[UKBengali]

J-10A began service in PLAAF in 2004.

Besides, you missed one thing: J-10A is a mediumweight fighter, while Gripen C a lightweight fighter. The size of J-10A's radar is much bigger than that of Gripen C.

Yeah but I would still say that the Gripen C is electronically better than J-10A.

No way that Chinese radar/electronic tech in mid-2000s caught up with the West.

J-10C AESA is probably still a little behind the AESA in the Gripen E but it has the advantage of having a larger radar and of course the J-10C has better flight characteristics at high altitude over Gripen E. I think it would be a close match between those two fighters.

 

[LKJ86]

Yeah but I would still say that the Gripen C is electronically better than J-10A.

No way that Chinese radar/electronic tech in mid-2000s caught up with the West.

You can do your homework about KLJ-7 radar for JF-17 BLK I/II, and it is just for export.

 

[The Ronin]

Bangladesh Air Force is buying Anti-Tank Fuse Bomb for F-7BG aircraft.

Bangladesh Air Force has floated a tender for Procurement of 1xK-8W Jet Training simulator.

C-130B of Bangladesh Air Force taking off from Bunia Airport. This particular aircraft serving in UN Peacekeeping Mission.

PC- MK Photography

In China-Thai exercises last year, J-10C destroyed the Gripen Cs.

"Li pointed out that the J-10C was more of a match for the JAS-39C/D in that “its active array radar significantly improves detection distance and multi-target attack capability, the DSI (divertless) air intake of the J-10C reduces the radar intercept area while the PL-15 missile increases the range, making it an over-the-horizon platform.”

But we or India will get Gripen E if we/they want. So question is how much good J-10C is against Gripen E?

In June 2018, Bahrain became the launch customer for the F-16V when it signed a USD 1.12-billion contract for 16 new aircraft. The Royal Bahraini Air Force (RBAF) will also upgrade its 20 Block 40 F-16C/D aircraft to this latest standard to make a total fleet of 36 F-16V aircraft.

Didn't they get it in this price because they already have the necessary stuff to support the procurement?

 

[UKBengali]

But we or India will get Gripen E if we/they want. So question is how much good J-10C is against Gripen E?

Gripen E is twice as expensive as J-10C and supply is not guaranteed against India unlike J-10C.

J-10C also is a larger fighter and has better high altitude maneuverability.

 

[UKBengali]

You didn't notice the second part. Ok let's say we didn't get Gripen E but India did. So how good J-10C will be against IAF Gripen E that question still remains. We shouldn't talk about Thai Gripen C/D as it won't be here.

I did.

India already has Rafale and them getting Gripen E would make no difference to the strategic situation.

Anyway like I already said, Chinese tech is progressing faster than that of the West and BAF can always upgrade the radar and electronics of the J-10C when they become available.

Pretty much all Western aircraft apart from refurbished F-16 Block 50/52s are unaffordable for BD in my opinion.

 

[The Ronin]

I did.

India already has Rafale and them getting Gripen E would make no difference to the strategic situation.

Anyway like I already said, Chinese tech is progressing faster than that of the West and BAF can always upgrade the radar and electronics of the J-10C when they become available.

Pretty much all Western aircraft apart from refurbished F-16 Block 50/52s are unaffordable for BD in my opinion.

Rafale order was cut back. India is looking for a single engine MRCA so they launched the MRCA program again and SAAB is ready to provide full TOT. The "progressing" part of J-10C is not assuring. J-10C have to be good enough to counter IAF/MAF's new jet with latest tech. What matters most is what J-10C can offer right now against current threat as BAF needs new jet immediately with cutting edge tech. "progressing" is not good and the west have enough resources to upgrade their fighters, you are wrong in this part.

 

[UKBengali]

Rafale order was cut back. India is looking for a single engine MRCA so they launched the MRCA program again and SAAB ready ro provide full TOT. The "progressing" part of J-10C is not assuring. J-10C have to be good enough to counter IAF/MAF's new jet with latest tech. What matters most is what J-10C can offer right now against current threat as BAF needs new jet immediately with cutting edge tech. "progressing" is not good and the west have enough resources to upgrade their fighters, you are wrong in this part.

BD has publicly said it wants 16 aircraft for MRCA.

1. Eurofighter - 100 million dollars per plane and extremely expensive to operate
2. Gripen E - 85 million US dollars per plane although US would block this as they want BD to buy their planes, but cheap to operate
3. Superhornet - 80 million US dollars per plane and moderately expensive to operate
4. Refurbished F-16 Block 50/52 - 30 million US dollars per plane and cheap to operate
5. J-10C - 40 million US dollars per plane and cheap to operate

There is an outside chance of ex-German Eurofighter Tranche 1 upgraded with AESA radar and new electronics for 50-60 million dollars per plane but still extremely expensive to operate

To me it looks like BD can only afford the F-16 Block 50/52 and the J-10C. J-10C is clearly the more advanced fighter with better radar and better missile(PL-15), assuming US only allows AIM-120C7 with the F-16. BAF could freely use the J-10C against India whereas the F-16 Block 50/52 can be freely used against Myanmar.


So BD can either purchase say 16 new build Euro-fighters or go for 32 J-10Cs + 16 F-16Cs for the same money. Infrastructure costs will be a little more though for two fighters rather than one.

To me it is a no brainer to go for the latter.

 

[LKJ86]

BD has publicly said it wants 16 aircraft for MRCA.

1. Eurofighter - 100 million dollars per plane and extremely expensive to operate
2. Gripen E - 85 million US dollars per plane although US would block this as they want BD to buy their planes, but cheap to operate
3. Superhornet - 80 million US dollars per plane and moderately expensive to operate
4. Refurbished F-16 Block 50/52 - 30 million US dollars per plane and cheap to operate
5. J-10C - 40 million US dollars per plane and cheap to operate

There is an outside chance of ex-German Eurofighter Tranche 1 upgraded with AESA radar and new electronics for 50-60 million dollars per plane but still extremely expensive to operate

To me it looks like BD can only afford the F-16 Block 50/52 and the J-10C. J-10C is clearly the more advanced fighter with better radar and better missile(PL-15), assuming US only allows AIM-120C7 with the F-16. BAF could freely use the J-10C against India whereas the F-16 Block 50/52 can be freely used against Myanmar.


So BD can either purchase say 16 new build Euro-fighters or go for 32 J-10Cs + 16 F-16Cs for the same money. Infrastructure costs will be a little more though for two fighters rather than one.

To me it is a no brainer to go for the latter.

F-16V would be a best choice for BD.
And then, there would be a competition between IAF's Rafale with Meteor, BAF's F-16V with AIM-120D, and MAF's JF-17 with PL-15.