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Balochistan's Ancient Ties to Pakistan - 5000 BC to present

Maybe they should have, maybe they shouldn't have, but then that doesn't invalidate the claims by balochi separatists that the polls were rigged!

We don't really know what Pakistan did down there....there are allegations ranging from coercion to elimination of those leaders opposing Pakistani rule.

The polls were boycotted by a large section of Balochi leaders, some claim.

I didnt' see any strong evidence in favour of Pakistan's stand elther. Does that mean that we accept Pakistan's viewpoint by default?


Your argument is a logical fallacy of 'proving a negative'. Its like the argument made by theists of 'prove God doesn't exist'. If something doesn't exist, then there isn't any evidence about it period, so proving its non-existence is moot. On the other hand, those claiming something exists should have evidence backing up its existence.

Similarly, it is up to those alleging that rigging took place to provide evidence that it did - the burden of proof is on you, and some unbiased and authoritative sources need to be provided.

It is true that none of the books and article on Balochistan that I have come across (including those by Selig Harrison who has championed the breakup of Pakistan, and had strong friendships with Baluch Sardar's since the seventies) have mentioned rigging, and no one has questioned the referendum (through Jirga) itself, though some have questioned the events around Kalat. The argument of 'rigging', AFAIK, did not even start until separatism arose, indicating that the charge is motivated.
 
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Written by Moin Ansari on Jun-14-08

Balauchistan decided to remain part of Pakistan in a referendum held under the auspices of the Independence of India Act of 1947.

Baluchistan was part and parcel of the Indus Valley Civilization.

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The Geographic Two Nation Theory. Pakistan existed 5000 years ago as the “Indus Valley Civilization”

The Pakistan that existed 5000 years ago. The Balauch have lived with the Punjabis, Sindhis, Pathans, and Kashmiris for thousands of years. This alliance did not begin in recent history.

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We wish to start the story of Baluchistan many thousands of years ago–even before the Indus Valley.

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http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee282/Nadimos/BalochistanMehergarh.jpg

Mehergarh situated strategically near the Bolan Pass, is located at the foot of the Balochistan hills on the Katchi plain southeast of Quetta. A 9000 year old site of settlement, Neolithic Mehergarh consists of four mounds. Supported by the Pakistan Department of Archeology, French archeologists have been carrying out extensive excavations there for some years. These excavations, studies and research have led to pushing back these settlements to some 9000 years.

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Your argument is a logical fallacy of 'proving a negative'. Its like the argument made by theists of 'prove God doesn't exist'. If something doesn't exist, then there isn't any evidence about it period, so proving its non-existence is moot. On the other hand, those claiming something exists should have evidence backing up its existence.

Erm....sorry, I simply don't see the connection.

There are two sides to the issue, the Pakistani side, and the Separatist side, and both sides have not presented any evidence.

This can hardly be compared to the theist versus atheist argument.

Similarly, it is up to those alleging that rigging took place to provide evidence that it did - the burden of proof is on you, and some unbiased and authoritative sources need to be provided.

Nope, its upto the people alleging that the polls were fair, to provide evidence to that effect.
See how that works?

It is true that none of the books and article on Balochistan that I have come across (including those by Selig Harrison who has championed the breakup of Pakistan, and had strong friendships with Baluch Sardar's since the seventies) have mentioned rigging, and no one has questioned the referendum (through Jirga) itself, though some have questioned the events around Kalat. The argument of 'rigging', AFAIK, did not even start until separatism arose, indicating that the charge is motivated.

Now that's a better defense!
 
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Thus, the chronology of civilization in Pakistan, established through the study of Moenjodaro and Harappa, has been pushed back by over 4000 years. The habitation of the site has been divided into seven periods, the first being the Pre-Pottery Neolithic period that dates to circa 7000 B.C. or even earlier. The site was abandoned between 2000 and 2500 B.C. during a period of contact with the Indus Civilization and then reused as a burial ground for some time after 2000 B.C.

Perhaps the most important feature of Mehrgarh is the fact that one can witness its gradual development from an early village society to a regional center that covered an area of 200 hectares at its height. In the course of this development, a huge platform that may reflect some form of authority was constructed at the site. Mehrgarh was also a center of manufacture for various figurines and pottery that were distributed to surrounding regions

Research shows that people here lived in houses and were involved in hunting, domesticating of animals and farming cereals like barley and wheat. This hunting-farming society developed gradually and their pursuits were creative. During the early period these people used stone and bone tools i.e. polished stone-axes, flint blades and bone-pointers. By 6000 B.C. the hand-made pottery appeared and in the 5th millenium B.C. Metallurgy and potter-wheel were introduced and they produced some fine terra-cotta figurine and pottery with exotic geometric designs.

Subsequently they produced and wore ornaments of beads, seashells and semi-precious stones like Lapis Lazuli. A museum has been set up at sibi where a wide range of rare finds from the site of mehergarh are on display.

Accessibility: Mehargarh is well connected by road, air and by train with the rest of the country by Quetta.

The 5000 yeard old Pakistan as it interacted with the other 3 superpwoers.
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The Pakistani civilization interacted with many regions of the world

The history of Baluchistan is fascinating. Mehergarh is the oldest agricultural site in the Subcontinent. The artifacts found there go back 7000 years. The people of Mehargarh have been living peacfully with the Indus Valley Civilization for tousands of years. During the British colonial rule no such province existed. It is a merger of many independent states. At the end of the colonial era the Provinces of West India decided to band together and form Pakistan.

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Baluchistan part of Pakistan part of Amir taimur’s empire

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The British empire with hundreds of states in the Subcontinent

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The British Empire with Baluchistan and Afghanistan

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The coast of Baluchistan

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Many Pakhtuns today want to join Pakistan. They call this inevitable

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The state of Kalat

In 1947-1948 there were only two choices before the Raja of Kashmir the leaders of FATA, NWFP, the Khan of Kalat and the Baluch leaders.

Contrary to some of the revisionists who are rewriting history, Balauchistan’s 6 million people were not forcibly incorporated into Pakistan. The Baluchis have been living with the Indus Valley people for thousands of years.

Balauchistan decided to join Pakistan in a referendum held under the auspices of the Independence of India Act of 1947. 1. During the period of the British Raj, there were four Princely States in Balochistan: Makran, Kharan, Las Bela and Kalat, the largest and most powerful.

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The British “On to the Oxus policy” was short lived. In 1876 Sir Robert Sandeman concluded a treaty with the Khan of Kalat and brought his territories–including Kharan, Makran, and Las Bela–under British suzerainty.3. After the Second Afghan War of 1878-80, the Treaty of Gandamak concluded in May 1879, the Afghan Mmir ceded his districts of Pishin, Sibi, Harnai, and Thal Chotiali to the British.

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1) It is ironic that jounalists were are citizen of colonialist powers that still occupy countries in the Middle East, Caribbean and West Asia are discussing colonialism in one of its former colonies.

2) Some think that the history of the Subcontinent began when Lord Clive invaded Bengal. Actually the history of Baluchistan and the history of Pakistan begins 150,000 years ago in the Suan vallay where the first Pakistanis walked and swam in the Suan river.

3) Mehergarh is the oldest agricultural site in the Subcontinent. It is 7000 years old. The poeple of Mehergarh traded with the Kashmiris, Punjabis, Sindhis, and Pathans for thousands of years. Contrary to some of the revisionists who are rewriting history, Balauchistan’s 6 million people were not forcibly incorporated into Pakistan. The Baluchis have been living with the Indus Valley people for thousands of years.

4) The Indus Valley Civilization existed on the banks of the Indus in more or less Pakistan of today. This was 3500 BC or thereabouts.

5) Balauchistan and Pakistan were part of many empires in a seesaw between Kushan, Abdali, Greeks, Persians, Timur, Mughals, and the British.

6) The British “On to the Oxus policy” was short lived. In 1876 Sir Robert Sandeman concluded a treaty with the Khan of Kalat and brought his territories-including Kharan, Makran, and Las Bela-under British suzerainty.3. After the Second Afghan War of 1878-80, the Treaty of Gandamak concluded in May 1879, the Afghan Mmir ceded his districts of Pishin, Sibi, Harnai, and Thal Chotiali to the British.

7) Balauchistan and Pakistan were part of the British Empire. There are British military cantonments in Quetta, Zhob, Rawalpindi, Lahore, Peshawar, Karachi, Sialkot and other places. During the period of the British Raj, there were four Princely states in Balochistan: Makran, Kharan, Las Bela and Kalat. In 1876 Sir Robert Sandeman concluded a treaty with the Khan of Kalat and brought his territories - including Kharan, Makran, and Las Bela - under British suzerainty. After the Second Afghan War of 1878-80, the Treaty of Gandamak concluded in May 1879, the Afghan Emir ceded the districts of Quetta Pishin,Sibi, Harnai, and Thal Chotiali to the British. In 1883 the British leased the Bolan Pass, southeast of Quetta, from the Khan of Kalat on a permanent basis. In 1887 some areas of Balochistan were declared British territory. In 1893, Sir Mortimer Durand negotiated an agreement with Amir Abdur Rahman Khan of Afghanistan to fix the Durand Line running from Chitral to Balochistan to as the boundary between the Afghans and the British. Balauchistan decided to join Pakistan in a referendum held under the auspices of the Independence of India Act of 1947. 1. During the period of the British Raj, there were four Princely States in Balochistan: Makran, Kharan, Las Bela and Kalat, the largest and most powerful.

11) In 1883 the British leased the Bolan Pass, southeast of Quetta, from the Khan of Kalat on a permanent basis,.5. In 1887 some areas of Balochistan were declared British territory.6. In 1893, Sir Mortimer Durand negotiated an agreement with Amir Abdur Rahman Khan of Afghanistan to fix thethe Durand Line running from Chitral to Balochistan to as the boundary between the Afghans and the British. 1920 British Raj

12) The Government of India Act, 1935, treated Kalat as an independent State and provides representation for it in the Federal Legislature. Kalat was not all of Baluchistan, it is part of Balauchistan.

13) In 1947, Kalat was ruled by Mir Ahmed Yar Khan. Indeed, the British had given many Princely States the choice of either India, or Pakistan during the immediate pre-partition period (though they were worried of having too many independent nations). The states in Balauchistan were: Makran, Kharan, Las Bela and Kalat

14) The Indian Independence Act, 1947 allowed the independent states to join either India or Pakistan. According to Indian Independence Act 1947 - Section II
Subject to the provisions of sub-sections (3) and (4) of this section the territories of Pakistan shall be (a) the territories which on the appointed day, are included in the Provinces of East Bengal and West Punjab as constituted under the two following sections; (b) the territories which, at the date of the passing of this Act, are included in the Province of Sind and the Chief Commissioner’s Province of British Baluchistan; and (c) if, whether before or after the passing of this Act but before the appointed day, the Governor General declares that the majority of the valid votes cast in the referendum which, at the date of the passing of this Act, is being or has recently been held in that behalf under his authority in the North-West Frontier Province are in favour of representatives of that Province taking part in the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan, the territories which, at the date of the passing of this Act, are included in that Province.

15) The people of Balauchistan, overwhelmingly voted to join Pakistan in a referendum that was held on June 30, 1947, to ascertain their wishes on this issue.

16) ABOUT THE BLA– a terror organization which is a creation of Indian RAW
BLA: A threat to International Peace. The BLA is a creation of Indian Intelligence agencies which are trying to create instability in the areas bordering Paksitan, Iran and Afghanistan

17) Balauchistan joined Pakistan as a result of the free will of the Muslims.

1 The Khan of Kalat acceded to Pakistan on March 27, 1948. Like Kalat, Hydrabad and Kashmir, hundreds of other states also had the choice of either joining India or Pakistan.

The present campaign to create issues in Pakistan is the same conspiracy that was tried by the USSR to impede the defeat of the USSR forces in Afghanistan.

Pakistan gained independence from the British legally and the boundaries were recognized by Brittan, and all the other members of the United Nations.

Gwadar Port on the Baluch coast

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Pakistani Gwador to China links threaten Indian Chahbahar links to Kabul via Iran

Gwadar to China:- Trade lessons from the 5000 yr old Pakistani Indus Valley Civilization: The Harrappan Trade Corridor within the IVC (Dilmin, Mekan) and beyond is now being resurrected again.
 
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All that's fine, except for the fact that modern Pakistanis are not the same people as the IVC people. They are mostly comprised of tribes which moved into the region of Pakistan much later.

Which kinda invalidates the whole Pakistan == extension of IVC theory.
 
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All that's fine, except for the fact that modern Pakistanis are not the same people as the IVC people. They are mostly comprised of tribes which moved into the region of Pakistan much later.

Which kinda invalidates the whole Pakistan == extension of IVC theory.

Okay but thats not the issue. Historically and geographically Balochistan in insepreable from modern day Pakistan. Balochis aswell as the tribes living in four authentic 'Princely States' joined Pakistani Federation by free choice and became integral part of it.

No country can put claim on this territory.
 
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All that's fine, except for the fact that modern Pakistanis are not the same people as the IVC people. They are mostly comprised of tribes which moved into the region of Pakistan much later.

Which is only true if it can be shown conclusively that the entire IVC peoples migrated from the region or went extinct without intermarrying with the Tribes that did come to the region of Pakistan.

That discussion is however going on elsewhere, so lets not start here.

Neo's point of the historical connections of various parts of the region comprising Pakistan is valid.

NOTE: Neo, I edited the thread title to be more concise. Hope you don't mind.

Feel free to change it back (or to something else) if you like.
 
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Erm....sorry, I simply don't see the connection.

There are two sides to the issue, the Pakistani side, and the Separatist side, and both sides have not presented any evidence.

This can hardly be compared to the theist versus atheist argument.

Nope, its upto the people alleging that the polls were fair, to provide evidence to that effect.
See how that works?

Now that's a better defense!
Well going by your last comment below I'll assume this part is answered then.

If the 'rigging' arguments had any veracity, you can bet that even Pakistani historians would have addressed the issue, even if only to deny 'rigging' - yet I never came across the allegation until you brought it up.

Even some of the Sardar's advocating separatism lament along the lines of, "we joined Pakistan hoping that.......".
 
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All that's fine, except for the fact that modern Pakistanis are not the same people as the IVC people. They are mostly comprised of tribes which moved into the region of Pakistan much later.

Which kinda invalidates the whole Pakistan == extension of IVC theory.



The IVC people were Eskimos/ We all know that.



Seriously though.
Pakistanis have always lived in the region, the land of the Indus has always been ours so please dont sprout all these migration theories.
 
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The IVC people were Eskimos/ We all know that.

Seriously though.
Pakistanis have always lived in the region, the land of the Indus has always been ours so please dont sprout all these migration theories.

They are not just "migration theories". Ask the tribes themselves about their origins.

In any case, I am not going to push it. You believe that Balochistan is a part of Pakistan, because you have to. Because you want to. And nobody can convince you otherwise. I can understand. That's human nature itself.
 
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They are not just "migration theories". Ask the tribes themselves about their origins.

In any case, I am not going to push it. You believe that Balochistan is a part of Pakistan, because you have to. Because you want to. And nobody can convince you otherwise. I can understand. That's human nature itself.

The whole human race can be traced to origins in Africa. That would make all of India a land of migrants just like Balochistan is in your view. Balochistan was settled, and once settled it expanded, just like the populations of India did.
 
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5000 bc????? that mean 7000 years??????

wow man........i didnt know that................... can i personally talk to the one, who started the thread???????

"The history of Baluchistan is fascinating. Mehergarh is the oldest agricultural site in the Subcontinent. The artifacts found there go back 7000 years."

If you would bother to read the posts, instead of just the title, and then just rant nonsense, then of course you would have no idea of why the thread was titled so.

India did not exist thousands of years ago either - the modern Indian nation is a day younger than Pakistan in fact.

The history of Pakistan represents the history of its people, hence it is Pakistani history, though the modern nation of Pakistan did not exist then.

Quit trolling please.
 
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