Bahrain recognizes the State of Israel and its right to self-defense

[Falcon29]

As I said, I still don't think you can go against human nature. Western democracies have the most freedoms because the people gradually demanded them. So gay people lobbied for decades to be allowed to be openly gay without persecution, and won. Muslims are not different humans. They want the same as everyone else. A roof over their heads, take care of their family, nice car, nice holidays, freedom to trash the government without being jailed etc. The kids will want a pet, the latest phone and to watch mindless cartoons.

If by "right path" - you mean go out of your way to help people, do favours without expecting something in return, be selfless, look after nature and the environment etc - then I agree, but we don't need religion for that, we just need education.

Of course society is shaped by society itself, or the people. That being said there needs to be moderation, you being Jewish and Abrahamic probably view yourself as a creation of God and have a private relationship with him. Even if you're not practicing. Your problem is you're disregarding religion too much, don't know if this is because of examples in history or by your experience with religious institution. But, let's assume you understand reality well, you can probably recognize that even those in religious institutions you may view it as just another institution or practice with religious overtures. You are probably correct in that assessment. Even though they may pray and observe the tenets more than others, they can still be distant from God. So don't let that define what the 'right path' is. The right path can't described in words, you need to reach that point. People who reach that point are not common, and some of the best ones are the Prophet's(PBUT) and in Islam's case the rightly guided Caliphs. We should be following their examples.

Now how do they reach that point where they are sincere, their intentions are sincere and they actually formulate a righteous society and produce out of it the best characteristics out of people? They struggle against theirselves and their desires. And that is just personally, without involving society. God knows we are attached to some desires in this life and knows it is hard to give them to your best ability. He also knows if you struggle against yourself, especially qualities that are excessive, you are going to change as a person. You will not have everything you may have wanted and then become more grateful. And what will prove that is if you go through difficult times, you will cope better than others. While those who claim they are grateful and blessed, if put into difficult situations will break down and complain a lot and possibly start demeaning God for why he put them in that situation. You will become more empathetic, if you suffer because you struggle against your desires(any consequences of struggling against your desires), you will then be empathetic with those who suffer.

Those are two examples of qualities you will assume from struggling against some of your desires. That does not mean repress yourself completely and make an ultra strict society. Society needs to be moderate and people need freedom of expression, but some things should be limited by state. And the rest is up to people to decide, you can get away with stuff even in a moderately religious country if you are looking after it. The point is God sees something people don't when he advises to struggle against some of our desires. It's no surprise that those who struggled against their desires the most and suffered the most as a result by means of rejection(which in turn makes everything harder for them to achieve, and affects them personally when they lack respect and basic needs) were the Prophet's. They could have said you know what this is too hard, let me drift away from this path God has ordained so I can have an easy life, but they didn't. They continued to suffer for a long time and God held them very highly due to them essentially killing themselves(figuratively) for his sake.

I don't expect common people to emulate the Prophet's, only few will achieve that level of piousness. But, we can try to struggle against our desires a bit, while still enjoying life and having fun with moderation. And we can also contemplate God more, think of him more and appreciate him more. While also doing good such as making the environment a better place, improving education, upholding justice for all, being more considerate towards each other, etc.... We don't need to push God out of our lives on a state level. On a societal level it is up to the individual.

My last point is people should do more observation. Always try to observe and understand things. Once you have a better and more realistic understanding of reality you will understand the rational of God and you will understand many of the flaws we as humans are exhibiting right now. Which you may not currently be able to comprehend.

This requires more discussion so it's unfortunate we won't be able to cram everything so easily.

 

[SALMAN F]

Bahrain was part of Iran till useless Pahlavi sold it ...

No it was not

 

[Falcon29]

Have you ever visited an Orthodox Jewish community? Seen how they prayed and lived their lives? Which community do you then think is closer to following a path G-d desires? Did you ever read the Medina Charter? Have you considered that it may be G-d's judgment that many Muslims today are blind to their obligations to themselves and others and thus can no longer claim the right under G-d to the coercive powers they claim as their divine right to exercise over non-Muslims? Have you considered that since in the Muslim tradition no more prophets can be accepted what measures G-d may have to resort to in order to not just show deviant Muslims the error of their ways but encourage them to change?

Muslim community can be very exceptional and pious if they follow the right path. Jewish people can too, but in the end I know God is real and I know Islam is his last revelation. It took awhile to understand the right path, I was still trying to reach it and understand reality on a deeper level a few years ago. It's a path within the religion, it's not the general community itself. So I respect Jewish people but I follow God and the path he lead Prophet Mohammed(SAW) to, that many Muslims have not entirely perceived and thus as a community they made and make many mistakes which has no effect on what the right path is but will affect them as a community.

 

[The SC]

Actually this discussion is example of how much Pakistani members hate Arabs.
No one has posted any remarks against Israel.. but against Arabs yes.
However, In real world you know very well that a common Iranian would probably party with Israelis.
Actually such propaganda is engineered in the name of discussion, to help Iran recruit soldiers from Pakistan and Afghanistan, so that they can kill Arab children.
You will see BS ThinkTank will come and endorse the OP and than tomorrow, there would be rush at Pak-Iran border.

What matters most are the realities on the ground.. empty talk won't change Arab thoughts and demands from Usrael.. the title of the thread makes it seem like Bahrain has officially recognised Usrael.. while there is no such recognition at all.. it says between the lines that this (UN recognised) state of Usrael (that we are negotiating a two state solution _one of it is a Palestinian state _with, has the right to defend itself if attacked first.. a statement that goes in line with all UN war conventions.. (eventhough Usrael does not abide by them most of the time), We believe in those principles unlike others including this unrecognised state of Usrael by the Majority of Arab and Muslim states..

 

[BATMAN]

the title of the thread makes it seem like Bahrain has officially recognised Usrael..

This was the first thing i noticed, you noticed and it means its obvious, but hypocrites are like they should be.
And this very key member of this forum @Solomon2 is hindi in disguise.
Every state have right to self defense... stability in every part of the world should be top priority.

 

[bsruzm]

I mean group-think. Days gone by, there was an automatic group-think to Israel and other issues. Now we see differences with Arab countries. It shows progress. More debate happening, which leads to different conclusions.

The Arab world needs debate and needs to stop group-think.

Of course, they show progress regarding Israel as US digs them harder today. According to Trump, they wouldn't exist, you know? He must have very good reasons to publicly say that, nobody has ever denied Trump.

 

[somebozo]

A country like Israel is far better than non-productive Palestine!

 

[The SC]

Of course, they show progress regarding Israel as US digs them harder today. According to Trump, they wouldn't exist, you know? He must have very good reasons to publicly say that, nobody has ever denied Trump.

It is obvious that he was talking about Qatar..

 

[bsruzm]

It is obvious that he was talking about Qatar..

Yeah, sure lol

 

[The SC]

A country like Israel is far better than non-productive Palestine!

Well, Palestine has been held back and forcefully made non-productive.. while Usrael was given everything from the West..

 

[Desert Fox]

This is what happens when Muslims start concerning themselves with strictly worldly matters. It all starts on social level, introduce unIslamic norms to people. Which will make them fascinated with these norms and suddenly everyone has crazy ego and forget obligations of Islam. So know majority of people just focused on being popular, having many social media followers, getting education and high income, taking pride in their country, enjoying pleasures of this life, etc.... So then their mindset is changed to just thinking of prosperity and prestige. A lot of people in Arab world are becoming this way. Keep mind this is same in Iran or Turkey or elsewhere. All this region is dominated by majority that think that way. They all have minority which doesn't but they are ignored, belittled or persecuted.

It's indeed a sad state of affairs. Only solution is returning to God. And people wonder why God made limit on world pleasures...because he understands human nature and how it will corrupt us.

So what is the solution in your opinion?

Because what you stated exists everywhere, bar North Korea perhaps.

It is indeed sad state of affairs but it is a product of modernity which is all around us and even we are involved in it although we might despise it for it's certain destructive effects.

@Nilgiri @Psychic

 

[AfrazulMandal]

What is up with Arabs!!!

Islam is facing a danger thanks to these narrow minded monarchs.

 

[GBU-28]

Of course society is shaped by society itself, or the people. That being said there needs to be moderation, you being Jewish and Abrahamic probably view yourself as a creation of God and have a private relationship with him. Even if you're not practicing. Your problem is you're disregarding religion too much, don't know if this is because of examples in history or by your experience with religious institution. But, let's assume you understand reality well, you can probably recognize that even those in religious institutions you may view it as just another institution or practice with religious overtures. You are probably correct in that assessment. Even though they may pray and observe the tenets more than others, they can still be distant from God. So don't let that define what the 'right path' is. The right path can't described in words, you need to reach that point. People who reach that point are not common, and some of the best ones are the Prophet's(PBUT) and in Islam's case the rightly guided Caliphs. We should be following their examples.

Now how do they reach that point where they are sincere, their intentions are sincere and they actually formulate a righteous society and produce out of it the best characteristics out of people? They struggle against theirselves and their desires. And that is just personally, without involving society. God knows we are attached to some desires in this life and knows it is hard to give them to your best ability. He also knows if you struggle against yourself, especially qualities that are excessive, you are going to change as a person. You will not have everything you may have wanted and then become more grateful. And what will prove that is if you go through difficult times, you will cope better than others. While those who claim they are grateful and blessed, if put into difficult situations will break down and complain a lot and possibly start demeaning God for why he put them in that situation. You will become more empathetic, if you suffer because you struggle against your desires(any consequences of struggling against your desires), you will then be empathetic with those who suffer.

Those are two examples of qualities you will assume from struggling against some of your desires. That does not mean repress yourself completely and make an ultra strict society. Society needs to be moderate and people need freedom of expression, but some things should be limited by state. And the rest is up to people to decide, you can get away with stuff even in a moderately religious country if you are looking after it. The point is God sees something people don't when he advises to struggle against some of our desires. It's no surprise that those who struggled against their desires the most and suffered the most as a result by means of rejection(which in turn makes everything harder for them to achieve, and affects them personally when they lack respect and basic needs) were the Prophet's. They could have said you know what this is too hard, let me drift away from this path God has ordained so I can have an easy life, but they didn't. They continued to suffer for a long time and God held them very highly due to them essentially killing themselves(figuratively) for his sake.

I don't expect common people to emulate the Prophet's, only few will achieve that level of piousness. But, we can try to struggle against our desires a bit, while still enjoying life and having fun with moderation. And we can also contemplate God more, think of him more and appreciate him more. While also doing good such as making the environment a better place, improving education, upholding justice for all, being more considerate towards each other, etc.... We don't need to push God out of our lives on a state level. On a societal level it is up to the individual.

My last point is people should do more observation. Always try to observe and understand things. Once you have a better and more realistic understanding of reality you will understand the rational of God and you will understand many of the flaws we as humans are exhibiting right now. Which you may not currently be able to comprehend.

This requires more discussion so it's unfortunate we won't be able to cram everything so easily.

I think you'd have done well 2,000 years ago. We'd probably all be reading about Hazzy the prophet. I think in 2018 your message is outdated and people will be like...dude, pass me a beer.

A lot of what you describe can be done without the need of organised religion. Why do we need funny hats and robes? why cover our face? why go into a man-made building and suddenly it's holy?

Struggling against yourself, bettering yourself, having empathy for other people etc is called ageing & experience. When I was 18 I was much different to today. More empathy for others because you can relate having had experiences. I have Orthodox people in my family and they're so boring. I hope you aren't wasting your best years acting like a nun.

 

[The SC]

I think you'd have done well 2,000 years ago. We'd probably all be reading about Hazzy the prophet. I think in 2018 your message is outdated and people will be like...dude, pass me a beer.

A lot of what you describe can be done without the need of organised religion. Why do we need funny hats and robes? why cover our face? why go into a man-made building and suddenly it's holy?

Struggling against yourself, bettering yourself, having empathy for other people etc is called ageing & experience. When I was 18 I was much different to today. More empathy for others because you can relate having had experiences. I have Orthodox people in my family and they're so boring. I hope you aren't wasting your best years acting like a nun.

"Struggling against yourself, bettering yourself, having empathy for other people etc..."
This is what Islam is about, plus a lot of Fun.. minus the beer and nudes.. but Muslims make up for these with fruit drinks, listening to Quran or Nasheed elevates the soul and brings a high on its own, and marriage of course.. Don't think the Muslims are like Orthodox Jews.. who are very boring.. And what I have said is the most orthodox form of Islam.. then you have more moderates than that and even Muslims only by birth.. in other words..you have all categories in Islam.. just like in other religions.. where many Christians do not drink alcohol..or refuse sex before marriage.. True Fun or happiness is a state of mind acquired through religion or a righteous education..it is not found in a bottle of beer or a shot of whisky.. For Muslims there is "Din wa Dounya" (Religion, to please God who has created you.. and the actual world to live your life as righteously as you can without skipping any of its pleasures.. but with moderation and good sense..)

 

[DjSnake]

A country like Israel is far better than non-productive Palestine!

you gotta hand it to israel, they wrapped the leash tight around all rabid arab dogs..
the master is in control