BAE HAWK MK132...........is it even good??

[he-man]

Americans and British must be stupid to training their pilots on Hawk for EF and F-35..? There will always be some more fancy system out there. Lets not degrade IAF by calling them stupid. They know what they ae doing. Plus its for their own training. I for one would trust them with their selection over some random specs.

As for LIFT, I am in favour of Twin seat LCA-derived LIFT. But again if IAF finds YAK better, they should go for it..

NO ONE IS ORDERING ANY NEW HAWKS NOW...............just research before u post,americans have a new tender for advanced trainers and hawk dosen't even fulfill the specs!!

They will be ordering a variant of kai t50 golden eagle which is a variant of YAK-130......even better,,,same with south korea,russia,switzerland,china etc

So tell me who is foolish now??

india or them?

You know Hawks are pretty reliable. They are easy to operate, have a very good rate of availability, have good support from BAE especially after the MOD rap to BAE for selling poor systems

There's no need not to trust the Hawks. They're known for their features. Now Yak-130 might be a deadly LIFT but it is pretty new and doesn't fit the game of what IAF wants.

Who doubts hawks??
But we need LIFT for better training for fgfa and hawk dosen't have what it takes to be a lift as a result we will have to order lifts seperately few years down the line..........its all i am saying

Yak-130 would have been 2 in 1 platform,,,,just like all airforces are doing right now

 

[sasi]

So u want diff platforms for LIFT and ajt??

Its waste of money totally,,,,u will see IAF ordering SOMETHING LIKE yak-130 in future as hawk is clearly not good enough to be trainer for a fgfa like aircraft

For god's sake forget radar.........it has no fbw!!!.........??

iaf didn't entered the concept of LIFT. Still hanging on with 3 stage training.
I think they didn't give serious thought abt how the present trainers evolving to train future warriors!

 

[saurav]

NO ONE IS ORDERING ANY NEW HAWKS NOW...............just research before u post,americans have a new tender for advanced trainers and hawk dosen't even fulfill the specs!!

They will be ordering a variant of kai t50 golden eagle which is a variant of YAK-130......even better,,,same with south korea,russia,switzerland,china etc

So tell me who is foolish now??

india or them?

If I am not wrong, T-50 is not a done deal... They were talking to us for joint development of LIFT.. Dont jump to conclusions by reading some Specs on net. They are more than often published to fool us...

 

[he-man]

Americans and British must be stupid to train their pilots on Hawk for EF and F-35..? There will always be some more fancy system out there. Lets not degrade IAF by calling them stupid. They know what they ae doing. Plus its for their own training. I for one would trust them with their selection over some random specs.

As for LIFT, I am in favour of Twin seat LCA-derived LIFT. But again if IAF finds YAK better, they should go for it..

as for britan they have started upgrading the hawks
Defence Ministers » Minister for Defence Materiel – BAE Systems UK awarded contract for fast jet trainer upgrade

even australia
http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Se...et-trainers-for-Australia/UPI-49351373314608/

 

[saurav]

as for britan they have started upgrading the hawks
Defence Ministers » Minister for Defence Materiel – BAE Systems UK awarded contract for fast jet trainer upgrade

Exactly my point sir... Its better to upgrade an already successful platform .. If need be, IAF will also upgrade Hawk. The cost of upgrade will also be lower because of huge number of Hawks.. Inducting a totally new and untested system for training might not have gone well with IAF.. Plus we should not forget that back then , Russians were giving us pretty hard time for spare parts for various Platforms...

 

[he-man]

If I am not wrong, T-50 is not a done deal... They were talking to us for joint development of LIFT.. Dont jump to conclusions by reading some Specs on net. They are more than often published to fool us...

Buddy don't take me wrong

I am not advocating only yak-130................IAF can buy any lift provided it has

1)a fbw..........hawk lacks it
2)radar.............hawk lacks it
3)good t/w ratio...........hawk has one of the poorest t/w in competition
4)good speed.................again they lag here

So whats the point of buying something which is already outdated??
Why did we order these in 2010...............in 2004 it was perfectly fine but were we blind in 2010??

Exactly my point sir... Its better to upgrade an already successful platform .. If need be, IAF will also upgrade Hawk. The cost of upgrade will also be lower because of huge number of Hawks.. Inducting a totally new and untested system for training might not have gone well with IAF.. Plus we should not forget that back then , Russians were giving us pretty hard time for spare parts for various Platforms...

The upgrade will again bring delays and don't forget we cannot upgarde engines and most probably fbw too

only radar could be added in my opinion and flight characteristics will remain totally the same,,,,thats the reason USA has opened a new tender for new trainers

Exactly my point sir... Its better to upgrade an already successful platform .. If need be, IAF will also upgrade Hawk. The cost of upgrade will also be lower because of huge number of Hawks.. Inducting a totally new and untested system for training might not have gone well with IAF.. Plus we should not forget that back then , Russians were giving us pretty hard time for spare parts for various Platforms...

just liik what HAL is already doing
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2011/09/wikileaks-indias-hal-hacks-own/

 

[GR!FF!N]

we ordered more hawks in 2009 ................and talk in performance terms,,,,not rhetoric...thank u

yup..we ordered more as IAF is satisfied with its performance and don't want the headache of small batch of different platforms for same role..what do you expect??they'll order 20 aircraft of other platform??it'll be logistically nightmare..

 

[he-man]

yup..we ordered more as IAF is satisfied with its performance and don't want the headache of small batch of different platforms for same role..what do you expect??they'll order 20 aircraft of other platform??it'll be logistically nightmare..

they ordered 60 more planes.................currently 123 more hawks are in order,,,,and it will take years to induct them fully considering the capabilities of the legendary HAL

 

[GR!FF!N]

they ordered 60 more planes.................currently 123 more hawks are in order,,,,and it will take years to induct them fully considering the capabilities of the legendary HAL

by your logic,if we ordered them in 2004 and get first of them in 2009(best case,along with russia),it would take a decade to get those aircrafts..whats the logic of discussing this kind of futile point???

 

[he-man]

by your logic,if we ordered them in 2004 and get first of them in 2009(best case,along with russia),it would take a decade to get those aircrafts..whats the logic of discussing this kind of futile point???

yaar who cares about 2004 order??it was fine

the 2010 order is not,,,,pls get it
the point is why seperate platform for ajt and lift and argument is valid one

 

[GR!FF!N]

yaar who cares about 2004 order??it was fine

the 2010 order is not,,,,pls get it
the point is why seperate platform for ajt and lift and argument is valid one

yaar...paisa paer me nehi ugtra hai....so,you want to scrap 120 AJTs and go for new one??well,i already told you,for FGFA,we'll have to go for Yak(I think so)..but for rest of the training purpose,Hawk is more than capable jet..look,AJT's role isn't of a frontline fighter's..its a subsonic jet for new pilots which is fairly simple to perate and to train them from less fast jets(that will be IJT Sitara) to a faster jet..next stage is a supersonic jet..these stages are built for specific purpose..just spanking new jets with new specs aren't for which you've to change doctrine..IAF thinks that next stage will be a supersonic fighter jet..so be it..thats simply makes YAK's new features redundant...

 

[he-man]

yaar...paisa paer me nehi ugtra hai....so,you want to scrap 120 AJTs and go for new one??well,i already told you,for FGFA,we'll have to go for Yak(I think so)..but for rest of the training purpose,Hawk is more than capable jet..look,AJT's role isn't of a frontline fighter's..its a subsonic jet for new pilots which is fairly simple to perate and to train them from less fast jets(that will be IJT Sitara) to a faster jet..next stage is a supersonic jet..these stages are built for specific purpose..just spanking new jets with new specs aren't for which you've to change doctrine..IAF thinks that next stage will be a supersonic fighter jet..so be it..thats simply makes YAK's new features redundant...

to paise per pe ugta hai that we want diff plane for ajt role and lift just due to faulty planning?

supersonic plane??what do u even mean?
even yak-130 is subsonic albeit much faster than hawk,,,,,,,,,,,,,i rest my case and have no more intention to argue when u won't accept faulty planning here

 

[GR!FF!N]

to paise per pe ugta hai that we want diff plane for ajt role and lift just due to faulty planning?

supersonic plane??what do u even mean?
even yak-130 is subsonic albeit much faster than hawk,,,,,,,,,,,,,i rest my case and have no more intention to argue when u won't accept faulty planning here

yup...faulty planning...

and supersonic plane mis exactly what I meant..after AJT,they fly Mig-21s or any other fighter jets thats assigned to them...they begin their training on those aircrafts..and LIFT part generally handled in both the AJT(its a LIFT trainer..accept it or not) training as well as the later training I mentioned(along with operational conversion)..is that looks like a faulty planning to you???

read this....

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/lift/

many country including India use Hawk for this role..

hell,even USA is considering to buy LIFT aircraft in which they're considering either Kai T-50,Hawk-128 and T-100 of Aermacchi..

 

[he-man]

yup...faulty planning...

and supersonic plane mis exactly what I meant..after AJT,they fly Mig-21s or any other fighter jets thats assigned to them...they begin their training on those aircrafts..and LIFT part generally handled in both the AJT training as well as the later training I mentioned..is that looks like a faulty planning to you???

So is

1)russian air force
2)swiss air force
3)USA airforce
4)South korean air force
5)chinese air force

FOOLISH TO INDUCT LIFT AIRCRAFT??

don't be such a fanboy dude,,,IAF WILL NEED LIFT IN FUTURE

 

[GR!FF!N]

So is

1)russian air force
2)swiss air force
3)USA airforce
4)South korean air force
5)chinese air force

FOOLISH TO INDUCT LIFT AIRCRAFT??

don't be such a fanboy dude,,,IAF WILL NEED LIFT IN FUTURE

hey noob,read what I've posted.....

everybody knows who is fanboy here..USAF is itself considering Hawk-128 for LIFT program..Hawk itself is a LIFt aircraft..from where you got the idea that its not a LIFT aircraft???now,its look like I've wasted my time..