BAE HAWK MK132...........is it even good??

[acetophenol]

@BDforever @he-man : Our requirement was for an AJT,and Hawk was good at it. Our requirements for an AJT was satisfied with Hawk. The point of Yak being better than Hawk,isn't the matter of concern.
@sasi: The spare parts problems were rectified.

 

[he-man]

@BDforever @he-man : Our requirement was for an AJT,and Hawk was good at it. Our requirements for an AJT was satisfied with Hawk. The point of Yak being better than Hawk,isn't the matter of concern.
@sasi: The spare parts problems were rectified.

i partially agree with u................but we have to look at the future and this platform fails in that respect miserably,no one will deny that

 

[GR!FF!N]

Now almost all the air forces are going for the lift planes in the future like yak-130 and golden eagle(kai t-50) and chinese hongdu something and if the iaf was so satisfied why try and fir radars now??pls tell

BAE, Elbit to develop advanced capabilities for IAF Hawk trainers - Airforce Technology

pls care to explain??



Now almost all the air forces are going for the lift planes in the future like yak-130 and golden eagle(kai t-50) and chinese hongdu something and if the iaf was so satisfied why try and fir radars now??pls tell

BAE, Elbit to develop advanced capabilities for IAF Hawk trainers - Airforce Technology

pls care to explain??

in the future bro..in the future....

18 operators all over the world uses HAWK...around 100 in number...how many Yak-130,Hongdu and Golden Eagle in service bro???and what do you suggest??we should throw out around 100 Hawks in favour of yak-130???

Look out in recent past,Indian Armed force always went for the best..and you're comparing a 70's trainer with a 2009's trainer bro..if needed,IAF will go for more capable trainers..an armed force induct whats suits them,not whats looks great on paper..

 

[he-man]

in the future bro..in the future....

18 operators all over the world uses HAWK...around 100 in number...how many Yak-130,Hongdu and Golden Eagle in service bro???and what do you suggest??we should throw out around 100 Hawks in favour of yak-130???

Look out in recent past,Indian Armed force always went for the best..and you're comparing a 70's trainer with a 2009's trainer bro..if needed,IAF will go for more capable trainers..an armed force induct whats suits them,not whats looks great on paper..

Its not on paper.........russia has inducted 40 yak..............bangladesh has ordered 24..........other nations like algeria too

The point is hawk was good 5-6 years back but not at all now,,,,,u cannot argue about figures and data,,,,especially when u are gonna induct fgfa in future u need the best trainer with all the goodies,it just dosen't have those advanced features.

And if it was so perfect then why did iaf try and get a radar fitted??
BAE, Elbit to develop advanced capabilities for IAF Hawk trainers - Airforce Technology

now they will waste precious time upgrading these

 

[GR!FF!N]

Its not on paper.........russia has inducted 40 yak..............bangladesh has ordered 24..........other nations like algeria too

The point is hawk was good 5-6 years back but not at all now,,,,,u cannot argue about figures and data,,,,especially when u are gonna induct fgfa in future u need the best trainer with all the goodies,it just dosen't have those advanced features.

And if it was so perfect then why did iaf try and get a radar fitted??
BAE, Elbit to develop advanced capabilities for IAF Hawk trainers - Airforce Technology

now they will waste precious time upgrading these

r a common man..was Yak-130 in the scene when IAF issued tender??was Yak in service when India inducted it??so,it was in the paper,right??and if FGFA comes to India,we will surely go for few Yaks..

and radar isn't essential when it comes to trainer..hell,do Super Tunaco has Radar??yet,USA use it for CAS and recon..specifications generally fixed by professionals who decides which exactly they want and which not..why the hell one need a capable radar for trainer jet???everyone knows that India will never use these jets for Air Combat,when they have so many capable aircrafts..

but now IAF thinks that they should integrate radar,electronic warfare, countermeasures and weapons into the Hawk Mark 132 mission system architecture, to revolutionise the IAF's pilot training system.so,they will do that..changes is common...you'd see many changes in case of yak-130 too,if it was in service..

 

[he-man]

r a common man..was Yak-130 in the scene when IAF issued tender??was Yak in service when India inducted it??so,it was in the paper,right??and if FGFA comes to India,we will surely go for few Yaks..

and radar isn't essential when it comes to trainer..hell,do Super Tunaco has Radar??yet,USA use it for CAS and recon..specifications generally fixed by professionals who decides which exactly they want and which not..why the hell one need a capable radar for trainer jet???everyone knows that India will never use these jets for Air Combat,when they have so many capable aircrafts..

but now IAF thinks that they should integrate radar,electronic warfare, countermeasures and weapons into the Hawk Mark 132 mission system architecture, to revolutionise the IAF's pilot training system.so,they will do that..changes is common...you'd see many changes in case of yak-130 too,if it was in service..

Pls look for the future US trainer tender..............Yak130 derivative KAI-T50 GOLDEN EAGLE IS LEADING THE RACE THERE

That sums it up............even hongdu trainer of china has better performance!!

It was offered in 2009,,,,yes it was

 

[acetophenol]

i partially agree with u................but we have to look at the future and this platform fails in that respect miserably,no one will deny that

Hawk is supposed to be an AJT i.e,to train the chaps on Advanced lessons in jet flying. They are not gonna change anytime soon. Hawk won't fail as a AJT at present or at any time in near future. Had we been looking for a LIFT and we chose Hawk over Yak 130,then I would've agreed with you. As an AJT,Hawk still rocks!

 

[he-man]

Hawk is supposed to be an AJT i.e,to train the chaps on Advanced lessons in jet flying. They are not gonna change anytime soon. Hawk won't fail as a AJT at present or at any time in near future. Had we been looking for a LIFT and we chose Hawk over Yak 130,then I would've agreed with you. As an AJT,Hawk still rocks!

So u want diff platforms for LIFT and ajt??

Its waste of money totally,,,,u will see IAF ordering SOMETHING LIKE yak-130 in future as hawk is clearly not good enough to be trainer for a fgfa like aircraft

For god's sake forget radar.........it has no fbw!!!.........??

 

[acetophenol]

So u want diff platforms for LIFT and ajt??


Its waste of money totally,,,,u will see IAF ordering SOMETHING LIKE yak-130 in future as hawk is clearly not good enough to be trainer for a fgfa like aircraft

For god's sake forget radar.........it has no fbw!!!.........??

Most likely we will have a different platform as LIFT.

 

[GR!FF!N]

Pls look for the future US trainer tender..............Yak130 derivative KAI-T50 GOLDEN EAGLE IS LEADING THE RACE THERE

That sums it up............even hongdu trainer of china has better performance!!

It was offered in 2009,,,,yes it was

and Hawk was purchased in 2004...I mean,why don't use your brain and think that what was best option then??your logic is like,why IAF bought Mig-29 in 90s when USAF is purchasing F-35 now...

your previos id was Sardar 1987..right??you know lil bit of techs of these weapons,but lack logic..

 

[he-man]

and Hawk was purchased in 2004...I mean,why don't use your brain and think that what was best option then??your logic is like,why IAF bought Mig-29 in 90s when USAF is purchasing F-35 now...

your previos id was Sardar 1987..right??you know lil bit of techs of these weapons,but lack logic..

we ordered more hawks in 2009 ................and talk in performance terms,,,,not rhetoric...thank u

Most likely we will have a different platform as LIFT.

see there lies the wastage of money.........we could have got 2 in one deal!!!

and Hawk was purchased in 2004...I mean,why don't use your brain and think that what was best option then??your logic is like,why IAF bought Mig-29 in 90s when USAF is purchasing F-35 now...

your previos id was Sardar 1987..right??you know lil bit of techs of these weapons,but lack logic..

who gave that stupid logic??
i think u not me

do u even know what u are saying??

just admit whats right,,,,other trainers are just superior,,,how can u not agree??

its a diff thing iaf didn't plan for future,,now i am to be blamed for saying that??

 

[acetophenol]

@he-man: Some years back IAF's training was like
1.HPT-32 Deepak
2.HJT-16 Kiran
3.Iskara
4.MiG 21
5.Respective trainer of their individual aircrafts.

Now may be it will be
1.Pc -7
2.IJT Sitara[doubtful]
3.Hawk
4.LIFT
5.Individual trainers.

 

[he-man]

@he-man: Some years back IAF's training was like
1.HPT-32 Deepak
2.HJT-16 Kiran
3.Iskara
4.MiG 21
5.Respective trainer of their individual aircrafts.

Now may be it will be
1.Pc -7
2.IJT Sitara[doubtful]
3.Hawk
4.LIFT
5.Individual trainers.

Buddy u are totally right............all i am saying is there is no need for a seperate lift and ajt!!

its the norm everywhere now.......we ordered 57 more hawks in 2010,that was a blunder in my opinion
Previous stuff is fine but ordering this in 2012 is a mistake that IAF will pay dearly for when it starts ordering LIFT

 

[saurav]

Americans and British must be stupid to train their pilots on Hawk for EF and F-35..? There will always be some more fancy system out there. Lets not degrade IAF by calling them stupid. They know what they ae doing. Plus its for their own training. I for one would trust them with their selection over some random specs.

As for LIFT, I am in favour of Twin seat LCA-derived LIFT. But again if IAF finds YAK better, they should go for it..

 

[Tshering22]

You know Hawks are pretty reliable. They are easy to operate, have a very good rate of availability, have good support from BAE especially after the MOD rap to BAE for selling poor systems

There's no need not to trust the Hawks. They're known for their features. Now Yak-130 might be a deadly LIFT but it is pretty new and doesn't fit the game of what IAF wants.