BAE HAWK MK132...........is it even good??

[he-man]

but bro russia offered you yak-130, even they claimed that to operate PAK-FA type aircraft, you need yak-130. hawk can not fullfill your training demand but indian counter part denied it.

hawk is just nothing compared to yak-130..........truth be told,,,,just look at the shaping of yak-130.......awesome

hawk looks so 70'sh

 

[BDforever]

hawk is just nothing compared to yak-130..........truth be told,,,,just look at the shaping of yak-130.......awesome

hawk looks so 70'sh

look does not matter anyway i do not know IAF plan, so i can not say anything

 

[he-man]

look does not matter anyway i do not know IAF plan, so i can not say anything

shaping does matter.............it dosen't matter whats the iaf plan??

what matters is that this trainer is lacking in everything compared to the other!!

 

[SRP]

Another ID of sardar1987. Asking again some stupid questions.

 

[he-man]

Another ID of sardar1987. Asking again some stupid questions.

man whats stupid here??
pls look post no 1

 

[SRP]

man whats stupid here??
pls look post no 1

What post no. 1. IAF got that what fit their bill. I don't understand why comparing with other aircrafts.

 

[sasi]

Is this problem solved?
Manu Pubby: New Delhi, Tue Dec 18 2012
In a major blow for the pilot training programme of the Air Force, it has emerged that almost 25 per cent of the Hawk advanced trainer fleet has been grounded due to severe lack of spares. In a startling disclosure in Parliament, Defence Minister A K Antony admitted that 16 aircraft are on ground for the want of spares.
This has come as a surprise, given that the fleet is relatively new, with the first trainers inducted in 2008. A total of 66 Hawk trainers are currently in service with the IAF and are used for the final stage training of pilots. The grounding of 25 per cent of this fleet has come at a bad time for the IAF, given that it currently has no basic trainer aircraft in service after the grounding of the HPT 32 fleet over two years ago.
Antony said that efforts are on to procure spares for the grounded aircraft but did not go into details of the shortages.
A lack of spares and complaints from the IAF that the trainers have been fitted with old parts has been a recurring headache with the Hawk fleet. As reported by The Indian Express in 2008, the trainers faced several spares-related problems afterthey were inducted. In fact, the fleet was grounded for a week in May that year after a trainer crashed. While the crash was blamed on pilot error, the IAF complained that it was facing a serious problem of spares with the serviceability rate of the fleet at 40 per cent.
The consistent failure to supply spares on time had ledthe ministry to impose a fine on British manufacturer BAE Systems in 2010.
In December 2011, a 0„559 million contract for spares wassigned with BAE to smooth out the problems but serious gapsin the support package remain, as revealed by Antony.
25% IAF advanced trainers grounded for want of spare parts, says Antony - Indian Express

 

[he-man]

Is this problem solved?
Manu Pubby: New Delhi, Tue Dec 18 2012
In a major blow for the pilot training programme of the Air Force, it has emerged that almost 25 per cent of the Hawk advanced trainer fleet has been grounded due to severe lack of spares. In a startling disclosure in Parliament, Defence Minister A K Antony admitted that 16 aircraft are on ground for the want of spares.
This has come as a surprise, given that the fleet is relatively new, with the first trainers inducted in 2008. A total of 66 Hawk trainers are currently in service with the IAF and are used for the final stage training of pilots. The grounding of 25 per cent of this fleet has come at a bad time for the IAF, given that it currently has no basic trainer aircraft in service after the grounding of the HPT 32 fleet over two years ago.
Antony said that efforts are on to procure spares for the grounded aircraft but did not go into details of the shortages.
A lack of spares and complaints from the IAF that the trainers have been fitted with old parts has been a recurring headache with the Hawk fleet. As reported by The Indian Express in 2008, the trainers faced several spares-related problems afterthey were inducted. In fact, the fleet was grounded for a week in May that year after a trainer crashed. While the crash was blamed on pilot error, the IAF complained that it was facing a serious problem of spares with the serviceability rate of the fleet at 40 per cent.
The consistent failure to supply spares on time had ledthe ministry to impose a fine on British manufacturer BAE Systems in 2010.
In December 2011, a 0„559 million contract for spares wassigned with BAE to smooth out the problems but serious gapsin the support package remain, as revealed by Antony.
25% IAF advanced trainers grounded for want of spare parts, says Antony - Indian Express

this is an old platform.........iaf is itself to blame for ordering this

kickbacks anyone??

What post no. 1. IAF got that what fit their bill. I don't understand why comparing with other aircrafts.

because better stuff is available out there!!

 

[anant_s]

please bear in mind that Hawks arrived after close to a decade of negotiations by which time IAF had nothing substantial left in inventory. Hawks were (& perhaps still are) amongst the best in their class. as with all other technologies, better hardware will always be available in future, but what matters is at the time of purchase, what is the best you can afford.
for the records, Russia had pitched for Mig AT for the requirement, but it was found to be unsuitable, and IAF got argubly the best AJT.
As for comparisons with YAK, you would notice that companies are incremently adding to the capacities of trainers as Light attack option to make the deal sweeter for airforces on tight budget. We wanted a good trainer & i believe we've got a really good trainer for our needs. As for the combat roles, we do have other arrows in the quiver, don't we?

 

[he-man]

please bear in mind that Hawks arrived after close to a decade of negotiations by which time IAF had nothing substantial left in inventory. Hawks were (& perhaps still are) amongst the best in their class. as with all other technologies, better hardware will always be available in future, but what matters is at the time of purchase, what is the best you can afford.
for the records, Russia had pitched for Mig AT for the requirement, but it was found to be unsuitable, and IAF got argubly the best AJT.
As for comparisons with YAK, you would notice that companies are incremently adding to the capacities of trainers as Light attack option to make the deal sweeter for airforces on tight budget. We wanted a good trainer & i believe we've got a really good trainer for our needs. As for the combat roles, we do have other arrows in the quiver, don't we?

pls specify how they are best in class??

1)no radar
2)no fbw
3)low t/w
4)lower speed

pls let the truth be out........its an old plane and dosen't fulfill LIFT criterion

 

[anant_s]

Hawk Users

Benefits of Hawk

Cockpit

Sensor Simulation

BAE is also joining hands with Elbit to develop better simulators.

We will jointly develop leading edge airborne simulation technologies as a response to the Indian Air Force (IAF) Virtual Training System (VTS) requirement. The requirement was first outlined in a Request For Information issued in 2009 and the companies have now extended the teaming agreement in readiness for a formal request from the IAF. This combined effort will build upon both companies extensive experience in the airborne simulation field and incorporate synthetic radar, electronic warfare, countermeasures and weapons into the Hawk Mark 132 mission system architecture.

It will provide enhanced fast jet training on the Hawk Mark 132 allowing additional skills to be taught to pilots smoothing the transition to front line fast jet Squadrons. The Hawk Mark 132 VTS will revolutionise the IAF pilot training system and make India a world leader in fast jet training.

Michael Christie, BAE Systems Senior Vice President for India said “India is an incredibly important market to us and one we are committed to for the long term. It’s an exciting time for Hawk in India with the aircraft continuing to be successfully built and delivered by HAL. Extending the agreement with Elbit paves the way for BAE Systems to introduce enhanced capabilities to the Hawk Mark 132 aircraft and make training for the Indian pilots even better.”

http://www.baesystems.com/article/BAES_156331/developing-next-generation-training-capabilities-for-the-indian-hawk?_afrLoop=165666244885000&_afrWindowMode=2&_afrWindowId=null

 

[he-man]

Hawk Users

Benefits of Hawk

Cockpit

Sensor Simulation

BAE is also joining hands with Elbit to develop better simulators.


http://www.baesystems.com/article/BAES_156331/developing-next-generation-training-capabilities-for-the-indian-hawk?_afrLoop=165666244885000&_afrWindowMode=2&_afrWindowId=null

Pls understand that hawk used to be the best but right now.......not so

It lags others in all flight parameters and has no radar and fbw??
How is it better than a trainer having those??

And no air force is gonna use this in future as its already obsolete.......

Even US is going for a trainer based on the YAK-130!!!

This is the future and we fucked up again
http://www.aleniana.com/m-346-advanced-jet-trainer

The requirement for 5 th generation is just diff man

look at specs of hongdu!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hongdu_L-15

We just have no defence!!

 

[he-man]

As for yak-130

it is superior in

1)fbw.......hawk dosen't have it
2)more t/w
3)radar..........hawk dosen't have it
4)2 engines..............safer
5)more speed!!

i mean what else is there to explain!!!

 

[anant_s]

Pls understand that hawk used to be the best but right now.......not so

It lags others in all flight parameters and has no radar and fbw??
How is it better than a trainer having those??

And no air force is gonna use this in future as its already obsolete.......

Even US is going for a trainer based on the YAK-130!!!

& thats exactly the point i'm are trying to make, when it was purchased it was the best (i believe it still is). but i hope you agree that technology advances very quickly and you cannot jump to a newer one (even though it is better) just for the sake of it.
Now consider here, IAF has developed a complete training program around Hawk creating infra-structure like simulators, training the teachers, etc and all this has involved huge sums of money and not to mention time.
Assume, we purchase YAK 130, similar amount of time and money will have to be invested and by the time we finish,something better would have comeup. this is a never ending cycle.
Had YAK 130 available in place of Mig AT at the time of selection, perhaps IAF would be flying them.
Also think of the nightmares IAF would have w.r.t maintaining two different types of trainers.
For a country like ours which imports almost everything for IAF, we don't just invest money, we also invest our faith in a technology. Now that we have it, let us persist with it and upgrade it to keep it amongst the best.

PS: there was a thread recently about Russia pitching for YAK 130 as a trainer for FGFA/ PAKFA to India. Don't know what India's stand is right now, but we may get to see YAK 130 variant sometime in future.

 

[he-man]

Yak-130 radar

The Yak-130 is fitted with the 8GHz to 12.5GHz Osa or Oca (Wasp) radar developed by NIIP Zhukovsky. The radar has the capacity to track eight airborne targets simultaneously, simultaneously engage four targets at all angles and simultaneously track two ground targets. The detection range against 5m² cross section targets is 40km in the rear direction and 85km in the forward direction. The lock-on range for operation in automatic tracking mode is 65km.

The radar, which has adaptive waveforms and sidelobes, has a surface mapping mode which includes image freezing and zooming on areas of interest.

An alternative radar fit is the Kopyo (Spear) radar. The aircraft can also be fitted with a podded Platan (Palm Tree) infrared search and track targeting system.


this is the single most imp thing for training

& thats exactly the point i'm are trying to make, when it was purchased it was the best (i believe it still is). but i hope you agree that technology advances very quickly and you cannot jump to a newer one (even though it is better) just for the sake of it.
Now consider here, IAF has developed a complete training program around Hawk creating infra-structure like simulators, training the teachers, etc and all this has involved huge sums of money and not to mention time.
Assume, we purchase YAK 130, similar amount of time and money will have to be invested and by the time we finish,something better would have comeup. this is a never ending cycle.
Had YAK 130 available in place of Mig AT at the time of selection, perhaps IAF would be flying them.
Also think of the nightmares IAF would have w.r.t maintaining two different types of trainers.
For a country like ours which imports almost everything for IAF, we don't just invest money, we also invest our faith in a technology. Now that we have it, let us persist with it and upgrade it to keep it amongst the best.

PS: there was a thread recently about Russia pitching for YAK 130 as a trainer for FGFA/ PAKFA to India. Don't know what India's stand is right now, but we may get to see YAK 130 variant sometime in future.

now we can't have them agreed but we should have looked into future before buying as in another 3-5 years these trainers will be really old compared to whats available,,,,,and even after signing order we have received just 24 trainers with lot of delays in spares etc