Babur's New Prospectus ?

[fatman17]

^^i am trying to find a JDW article on all types of LCMs and there is a full detailed paragraph on the Babur - it was very encouraging!

 

[S.U.R.B.]

u think they r going to tell us their secrets - triad is a capability only a few countries have!!!

I think they should push the button and complete the triad,it's a technology test which hasn't acquired it's full potential.No one will compare it with the atomic tests.

No one is asking them to open the secrets but the press report of a successful test.

 

[Super Falcon]

our babur is not that bad it is fully capable to hit any ship in the world no way how state of the art the ship is our misssile is good enough to hit it

 

[Dark Angel]

our babur is not that bad it is fully capable to hit any ship in the world no way how state of the art the ship is our misssile is good enough to hit it

And how do you back this up .... any links

 

[nightcrawler]

Tell me people can Babur be classified as a Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile(JASSM)
Because I have learnt that(well its not important though!!) that Israeil due to the absence of JASSM inventory/technology made Russians to stop S-300 sales to Iran

 

[S.U.R.B.]

Tell me people can Babur be classified as a Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile(JASSM)
Because I air vehicle learnt that(well its not important though!!) that Israeil due to the absence of JASSM inventory/technology made Russians to stop S-300 sales to Iran

Ra'ad comes in this category.

 

[Quwa]

I think they should develop both a 1000~1200km long-range variant of Ra'ad (like JASSM), as well as a <300km tactical ALCM (like MBDA Storm Shadow). In all upgrades/variants, the missile airframe should receive more RCS-reduction measures: For example, use an intake design similar to Storm Shadow, a more squarish design, etc.

 

[nightcrawler]

I think they should develop both a 1000~1200km long-range variant of Ra'ad (like JASSM), as well as a <300km tactical ALCM (like MBDA Storm Shadow). In all upgrades/variants, the missile airframe should receive more RCS-reduction measures: For example, use an intake design similar to Storm Shadow, a more squarish design, etc.

Why squarish??????????????????

 

[Quwa]

Why squarish??????????????????

Stealthier...but that might not be an issue for Ra'ad, just the intakes need to be repositioned as if they're inside the missile frame...like Storm Shadow/Black Shaheen:

http://www.european-security.com/imgbiblio/scalp_eg1s.jpg

 

[Donatello]

I don't know much about Babur or Raad but many of us would know the same.

They never gave us a clue of when Pakistan will make it's own Cruise missile and now we have two different ones.


The thing is we are still stuck in the multi platform war because we don't know how many aircraft in PAF can handle Raad. With the coming of JF-17 and simpler computers on board, we can surely have Raad on a wide range of aircraft.

What yet remains to be seen is if they are anti-ship capable because we really need long range of such types.

The problem is that we need accurate guidance like radar homing which then switches to GPS or INS. Let's see where it ends up, but considering that cruise missiles are cheaper and more efficient way of targeting spots which would otherwise be deadly for manned aircraft, we better build up their arsenal.

 

[Quwa]

Pakistan's AShM include the C-802, Exocet and Harpoon Block II.

I'd say that now is the time to begin developing an indigenous design, or at least cooperate with an interesting foreign partner. Pakistan has clear experience with turbojet (and potentially turbofan) technology through its cruise missile and target drone programs. In fact, we should also be capable of integrating INS/GPS units as guidance units - the key challenge would be to track moving targets (ships). But we can develop the expertise through foreign cooperation.

For what its worth, Turkey is developing its own AShM - called Atmaca. Its planned range is 70km, but it was conceived for use in the Aegean Sea. However, Pakistan can work with Turkey to further develop the missile into a long-range system.

 

[Donatello]

Pakistan's AShM include the C-802, Exocet and Harpoon Block II.

I'd say that now is the time to begin developing an indigenous design, or at least cooperate with an interesting foreign partner. Pakistan has clear experience with turbojet (and potentially turbofan) technology through its cruise missile and target drone programs. In fact, we should also be capable of integrating INS/GPS units as guidance units - the key challenge would be to track moving targets (ships). But we can develop the expertise through foreign cooperation.

For what its worth, Turkey is developing its own AShM - called Atmaca. Its planned range is 70km, but it was conceived for use in the Aegean Sea. However, Pakistan can work with Turkey to further develop the missile into a long-range system.

See thats the thing,

There are many missile development firms which can help Pakistan, not to mention we got Babur and Raad with our own efforts.

There are Brazilians and South Africans. Then the Turkish and above all, Chinese.

What really is important, is that we first simply harmonize the launch platforms. One thing we desperately need to ward off any threat from Indian Navy is a strong Naval arm.

Probably a squadron of J-10 and the a Squadron of JF-17s to escort them. That should be enough for long range anti-ship attack. Actually procuring fighters would be cheaper than countering the Indian Navy or any other naval force by building more ships.


I hope PAF is making progress in this regard because we need air power to the south. Pakistan may not have sea assault objectives but definitely we need a sea denial force as all shipping west of India goes near our coast.

 

[Quwa]

Building a formidable navy has its advantages, but we cannot do it within the short or medium-term...at this point, productive naval-modernization & expansion is a long/very long-term affair. Immediate investment in modern SSKs and stealthy FACs (such as MRTP-33) should be made to at least have a semblance of naval-strength. The combination of U-214 for out at sea and Andrasta on coasts would be a good idea, and perhaps augmenting them with a light corvette similar to Visby (or Turkish design) - i.e. light combatant with AShM, ASW and AAW capabilities.

However, in a period of 15-20 years following now, the PN can steadily build up a fleet of AAW (~4) and general purpose (~8) multi-mission frigates of stealthy design, as well as corvettes of the MILGEM type (8~12). The advantage of next-generation frigates would be their low-RCS and high level of automation, allowing for lighter crews but with roughly the same armament and range of current ships. Standardizing all naval surface, sub-surface and aerial combatants with a single set of AShM, SAM, ASW torpedoes, would also be an excellent approach. At least in the long-run, Pakistan does have the potential to be felt as a viable naval power...the doors are certainly opening for such a need.

I expect to see the Marines and Naval Special Forces get a bit of boost in later years as well as amphibious ships and systems are built by China, Turkey, etc. Also, in 12~15 years I'd imagine PN will begin looking for a successor to its P-3s, and again, interesting options such as the ATR-72 MPA and A320 MPA will be there...

As for maritime strike, I believe PAF will make available all three fighters for the role...FC-20, F-16 and JF-17. Reason being, all of them are capable of using AShM and in war, one would never know when & where contingency is needed. Floods notwithstanding, Shahbaz is an excellent location for at least the Block-52+ to come into hand...and the CFTs would certainly have their benefit in the maritime environment. Other than that, it would depend on PN's own finances and whether it wants to see a specially optimized naval fighter...i.e. an airframe designed to better withstand the maritime environment (risk of corrosion) and what not. In such a case, one will likely see a variant of JF-17 or FC-20...or by some surprising course of events, a variant of J-11B/J-15 with prior approval of and royalty to Russia but built in China...

 

[fatman17]

See thats the thing,

There are many missile development firms which can help Pakistan, not to mention we got Babur and Raad with our own efforts.

There are Brazilians and South Africans. Then the Turkish and above all, Chinese.

What really is important, is that we first simply harmonize the launch platforms. One thing we desperately need to ward off any threat from Indian Navy is a strong Naval arm.

Probably a squadron of J-10 and the a Squadron of JF-17s to escort them. That should be enough for long range anti-ship attack. Actually procuring fighters would be cheaper than countering the Indian Navy or any other naval force by building more ships.


I hope PAF is making progress in this regard because we need air power to the south. Pakistan may not have sea assault objectives but definitely we need a sea denial force as all shipping west of India goes near our coast.

1 mirage v sqdn in the anti-ship role, equipped with the Exocet AShM is based at masroor and is dedicated for this role. in future expect a FC-20 or a JFT sqdn to replace these old birds in a similar role.

 

[nightcrawler]

Stealthier...but that might not be an issue for Ra'ad, just the intakes need to be repositioned as if they're inside the missile frame...like Storm Shadow/Black Shaheen:

http://www.european-security.com/imgbiblio/scalp_eg1s.jpg

Talking abt stealth

I am unable to see even the air-intake & such a roundish shape compare with others