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Babri Mosque bench judge goes public with dissent note

The slaughter of Muslims and Sikhs affect your concious ? You know in India cow slaughter is banned, why don't they unban that ? Beef will not be served in CWG , why is that ?

What about the millions who were slaughtered in partition and in 71? Why did you bring that up for? Those people that did that are animals. They dont practices their religion correctly.
 
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I see two videos and one picture, none of those show anything consistent with a Temple. I would also like to know who did the archelogical research and the people in that research body. How biased these people are should be under consideration also.

Land of Ram is no longer at war with itself | | | Indian Express


A Hari-Vishnu inscription found at Ayodhya


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Temple Ruins found at the demolished site of Babri Structure.

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After a good amount of reading, let me put this in perspective to both the sides here...

a temple was standing at a site which was torn down and a mosque built. The mosque was torn down to get back the temple. Some sense prevailed and the tempers were controlled before anything was built at the ravaged site. All we have now is an empty land. Now we have to decide what has to be built there. A mosque? or a temple?

the Muslims argue that since the mosque was already built there, and the said mosque was destroyed unlawfully, the people behind this should be punished and the mosque rebuilt.

The Hindus argue that since the temple was what initially was there and since the mosque was built by force, the temple should be built there. However, one thing we both agree here is probably that the mosque was torn down unlawfully.

So first agreement would be to punish the people tearing down the mosque - These people who pulled the mosque have been responsible for the killings of thousands of people in communal riots that occured almost every year since 1993 especially during election years.

Now to the big question. What needs to be built? well, the first question to the hindus and muslims - how holy is this place to you? and obviously none of the sides would want to come down - its a matter of ego and prestige now!

then what do we do? some secular site so that both the people go there? - well maybe people will go there but then it will be a site where both the religious groups will be eying to blast whatever is being built there.

does the Hindu god or the Muslim god need this piece of land? we ll let both of those gods fight and get back to us and tell us what they want. if no one answers you what they want - then they are probably not bothered whats built there.

turn it into a huge monument. Put all the graves/ pyres of the people that were killed because of communal hatred. let every family that was affected by the communal violence get their names etched there. May be you should let this be the sight where people would see and hang their heads in shame. The place should remind that peace is what both the religions preach - not building more mosques or temples.

There should be something that would remind everyone - there should never be a Babri mosque again.
 
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After a good amount of reading, let me put this in perspective to both the sides here...

a temple was standing at a site which was torn down and a mosque built. The mosque was torn down to get back the temple. Some sense prevailed and the tempers were controlled before anything was built at the ravaged site. All we have now is an empty land. Now we have to decide what has to be built there. A mosque? or a temple?

the Muslims argue that since the mosque was already built there, and the said mosque was destroyed unlawfully, the people behind this should be punished and the mosque rebuilt.

The Hindus argue that since the temple was what initially was there and since the mosque was built by force, the temple should be built there. However, one thing we both agree here is probably that the mosque was torn down unlawfully.

So first agreement would be to punish the people tearing down the mosque - These people who pulled the mosque have been responsible for the killings of thousands of people in communal riots that occured almost every year since 1993 especially during election years.

Now to the big question. What needs to be built? well, the first question to the hindus and muslims - how holy is this place to you? and obviously none of the sides would want to come down - its a matter of ego and prestige now!

then what do we do? some secular site so that both the people go there? - well maybe people will go there but then it will be a site where both the religious groups will be eying to blast whatever is being built there.

does the Hindu god or the Muslim god need this piece of land? we ll let both of those gods fight and get back to us and tell us what they want. if no one answers you what they want - then they are probably not bothered whats built there.

turn it into a huge monument. Put all the graves/ pyres of the people that were killed because of communal hatred. let every family that was affected by the communal violence get their names etched there. May be you should let this be the sight where people would see and hang their heads in shame. The place should remind that peace is what both the religions preach - not building more mosques or temples.

There should be something that would remind everyone - there should never be a Babri mosque again.

I would be happy if an IIM or IIT came up... :victory::victory::victory:
 
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I agree with Sliver... the court should hand over the piece of land to "Secular India" if there are no irrefutable evidence on either side's favor. They should build a monument commemorating the people who have lost their lives on both sides and let it be a reminder of an unfortunate event in India's history.
 
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First off we're not talking about the atrocities that Sikhs and Muslims faced, nor do we deny what had happened was wrong. That's a whole different topic right there.

As for the cow slaughter, I thought you would be smarter than that to understand that there are 80% of Hindus in India which most believe that cows are sacred and pious animals.
I could say the same thing about bangladesh, pakistan or any other muslim majority country of why pork and ham is not allowed. :disagree:

You failed to understand my post. It was a response to a post that that ridiculed muslim reaction to a "cartoon."

Two Sikh bodyguards killed Indira Gandhi. Hindus flatly blamed Sikhs and did a wholesale slaughter of the Sikhs. Not a sigle soul has been tried much less convicted. Same is Gujrat and Nellie massacre. The last two happened in the last decade. Once agian justice was not served in both cases. I do think you deny those acts were horrenndous else you would demand justice for the dead. Thousands of your fellow country men, women, and children were slaughtered , what is your response , you lecture and ridicule Muslims.


I don't see a problem in the ban of cow slaughter in secular India. However, that is imposing a religious value on the "secular" Indian population. If Govt decide to unban cow slaughter, How would the general Hindu polulation will react to that ?

Pork and ham are not banned in Bangladesh.
 
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The Archaeological Survey of India Report



The Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) excavated the mosque site at the direction of the Lucknow Bench Bench of the Allahabad High Court in 2003. The archaeologists reported evidence of a large 10th century structure similar to a Hindu temple having pre-existed the Babri Masjid.



A team of 131 laborers including 29 Muslims - who were later on included on the objections of the Muslim side-, was engaged in the excavations.


On June 11th, 2003 the ASI issued an interim report that only listed the findings of the period between May 22nd
and June 6th, 2003.


In August 2003 the ASI handed a 574-page report to the Lucknow Bench of the Allahabad High Court.


The ASI, who examined the site, issued a report of the findings of the period between May 22nd and June 6th, 2003. This report stated:


"Among the structures listed in the report are several brick walls 'in east-west orientation', several 'in north-south orientation', 'decorated colored floor', several 'pillar bases', and a '1.64-metre high decorated black stone pillar (broken) with vaksha figurines on four corners' as well as "Arabic inscription of holy verses on stone" Earlier reports by the ASI, based on earlier findings,
also mention among other things a staircase and two black basalt columns 'bearing fine decorative carvings with two cross legged figures in bas-relief on a bloomed lotus with a peacock whose feathers are raised upwards'.


The excavations give ample traces that there was a mammoth pre-existing structure beneath the three-domed Babri structure. Ancient perimeters from East to West and North to South have been found beneath the Babri fabrication. The bricks used in these perimeters predate the time of Babur. Beautiful stone pieces bearing carved Hindu ornamentations like lotus, Kaustubh jewel, alligator facade, etc., have been used in these walls. These decorated architectural pieces have been anchored with precision at varied places in the walls. A tiny portion of a stone slab is sticking out at a place below 20 feet in one of the pits. The rest of the slab lies covered in the wall. The projecting portion bears a five-letter Dev Nagari inscription that turns out to be a Hindu name.


The items found below 20 feet should be at least 1,500 years old. According to archaeologists about a foot of loam layer gathers on topsoil every hundred years. Primary clay was not found even up to a depth of 30 feet. It provides the clue to the existence of some structure or the other at that place during the last 2,500 years.


More than 30 pillar bases have been found at equal spans. The pillar-bases are in two rows and the rows are parallel. The pillar-base rows are in North-South direction. A wall is superimposed upon another wall. At least three layers of the floor are visible. An octagonal holy fireplace (Yagna Kund) has been found. These facts prove the enormity of the pre-existing structure.


Surkhii has been used as a construction material in our country since over 2000 years and in the constructions at the Janma Bhumi Surkhii has been extensively used. Molded bricks of round and other shapes and sizes were neither in vogue during the middle ages nor are in use today. It was in vogue only 2,000 years ago. Many ornate pieces of touchstone (Kasauti stone) pillars have been found in the excavation. Terracotta idols of divine figurines, serpent, elephant, horse-rider, saints, etc., have been found. Even to this day terracotta idols are used in worship during Diwali celebrations and then put by temple sanctums for invoking divine blessings. The Gupta and the Kushan period bricks have been found. Brick walls of the Gahadwal period (12th Century CE) have been found in excavations.


Nothing has been found to prove the existence of residential habitation there. The excavation gives out the picture of a vast compound housing a sole distinguished and greatly celebrated structure used for divine purposes and not that of a colony or Mohalla consisting of small houses. That was an uncommon and highly celebrated place and not a place of habitation for the common people.


Hindu pilgrims have always been visiting that place for thousands of years. Even today there are temples around that place and the items found in the excavations point to the existence of a holy structure of North Indian architectural style at that place.


In the January 2003, Canadian geophysicist Claude Robillard performed a search with ground- penetrating radar. The survey concluded the following:


"There is some structure under the mosque. The structures were ranging from 0.5 to 5.5 meters in depth that could be associated with ancient and contemporaneous structures such as pillars, foundation walls, slab flooring, extending over a large portion of the site".


Claude Robillard, the chief geophysicist stated the following:


"There are some anomalies found underneath the site relating to some archaeological features. You might associate them (the anomalies) with pillars, or floors, or concrete floors, wall foundation or something. These anomalies could be associated with archaeological features but until we dig, I can't say for sure what the construction is under the mosque."


The final ASI report of August 25th, 2003 stated that there was an evidence of a large Hindu temple having pre-existed the Babri mosque. Midway into the excavations the courts ordered the removal of the head of the ASI excavations for not following the excavation norms .
 
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After a good amount of reading, let me put this in perspective to both the sides here...

a temple was standing at a site which was torn down and a mosque built. The mosque was torn down to get back the temple. Some

There should be something that would remind everyone - there should never be a Babri mosque again.

Your fairy tale has a source ?
 
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You failed to understand my post. It was a response to a post that that ridiculed muslim reaction to a "cartoon."

Two Sikh bodyguards killed Indira Gandhi. Hindus flatly blamed Sikhs and did a wholesale slaughter of the Sikhs. Not a sigle soul has been tried much less convicted. Same is Gujrat and Nellie massacre. The last two happened in the last decade. Once agian justice was not served in both cases. I do think you deny those acts were horrenndous else you would demand justice for the dead. Thousands of your fellow country men, women, and children were slaughtered , what is your response , you lecture and ridicule Muslims.



I don't see a problem in the ban of cow slaughter in secular India. However, that is imposing a religious value on the "secular" Indian population. If Govt decide to unban cow slaughter, How would the general Hindu polulation will react to that ?

Pork and ham are not banned in Bangladesh.



Again you have brought up an unrelated topic which has nothing to do with this incident. Find the appropriate thread and I'll be more than happy to debate with you over there. I can bring up a whole list of atrocities against Hindus in Bangladesh as well, but that will be derailing the thread, so I ask to stay on the topic.
 
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You failed to understand my post. It was a response to a post that that ridiculed muslim reaction to a "cartoon."

Two Sikh bodyguards killed Indira Gandhi. Hindus flatly blamed Sikhs and did a wholesale slaughter of the Sikhs.

Completely offtopic, but just to get the facts straight.
Anti Sikh riots were not Hindu-Sikh riots. The perpetrators were bunch of "secular" peoples, commonly known as "Indira Congress".
 
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Your fairy tale has a source ?

just because u dont want to believe it, it doesnt become a fairy tale. there is a reason why babri mosque was pulled down. Can you tell me why so many other mosques are still there and well tolerated in india but this one was torn down?

Now come back with some conspiracy theory for that.
 
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I disagree with the compromise, there is only one solution - rebuild the mosque and punish those who demolished it.

Compromising is akin to assuaging the Hindus over a heinous crime they committed.

Let's compare the situation at hand with a highly hypothetical, but very apt situation.

Say Hindus (India) attacks Mecca tomorrow & takes it by force. Then Hindus demolish the holiest mosque for muslims round the world. They build a Ram temple there, rule there for 200 years; a rule of pillage, intolerance, destruction of original culture. And they leave after 200 years.

Then angry muslims destroy the Ram mandir & the Mecca court has to decide what should be built there. Very simplistic by your approach, isn't it? Build a Ram mandir in Mecca & get done with it. Thats what was there for 200 years. Do you support my stance? Catching my drift?

As Mecca is for you, Ayodhya is for Hindus. But heck, I keep forgetting it is always the oppressed muslims, their grievances... why care for others?
 
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You failed to understand my post. It was a response to a post that that ridiculed muslim reaction to a "cartoon."

Two Sikh bodyguards killed Indira Gandhi. Hindus flatly blamed Sikhs and did a wholesale slaughter of the Sikhs. Not a sigle soul has been tried much less convicted. Same is Gujrat and Nellie massacre. The last two happened in the last decade. Once agian justice was not served in both cases. I do think you deny those acts were horrenndous else you would demand justice for the dead. Thousands of your fellow country men, women, and children were slaughtered , what is your response , you lecture and ridicule Muslims.


I don't see a problem in the ban of cow slaughter in secular India. However, that is imposing a religious value on the "secular" Indian population. If Govt decide to unban cow slaughter, How would the general Hindu polulation will react to that ?

Pork and ham are not banned in Bangladesh.

Let me make something clear to you. Anti-Sikh riots wasn't carried out by Hindus but by congress members because their leader was killed. Two pints to note is, its not a communal riot and second, they didn't kill sikhs because they drew a derogatory cartoon of Indra Gandhi. I am not justifying the riots but I am just stating how it is different than the Cartoon issue.

Secondly, there is no ban of beef in India. Period. And Indians or Hindus don't go and blow themselves around the world because others slaughter cows. We know where our limit ends.
 
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