Attack on PAF Base Minhas

[Awesome]

Hi,

You young pakistanis need to learn---when a base commander--- ( a general ) has to pick up arms and join the fight---that means it is very close to losing the battle----general officers give directives and orders----picking up weapons for a base commander is a last ditch effort---showing that there were not enough people to take charge of the situation.

It does not mean that - even PNS Mehran attack wasn't very close to losing a fight. It just shows one thing - the commander led from the front.

ICARUS---you active millitary----your post says that---. The officers you are talking about---they are LT's 2nd LT's captains majors Lt col's----but not base commanders----.

So who said LTs and 2LTs didn't part-take in the fight?

The base commander joined the fight because he knew that he had fcuked up----he had not beefed up the security that was needed---timing of the attack was not calculated----seeing his failures in front of his eyes---he tried to salvage his career by jumping into the fire fight---.

He had three check posts in place, which were breached but the base was not breached. The problem does not lie with the base commander which serves 2-3 years on this post at most. The problem lies in the overall security policy of the country. The Pind Makkhan population did not grow right up to Kamra during his tenure. This sort of massive population re-arrangement away from security zones is the responsibility of the government.

Why does a base commander need to jump into a fight where there are supposedly 100's of soldiers on the base protecting the assets----unless there were hardly any soldiers protecting the base.

There is appreciation to be given to the person who runs towards the sound of gun fire.

The base commander---his whole action stinks of incompetence.

We all know the competence of the people jinki pant gheeli hojati hai on the sound of a fight. So please, the guy took a bullet for this country and then some more, whatever he stinks off, the foul smell of your words are drowning it.

I can't believe the drawing room experts who give such absolute statements jese uss pata nahi security and strategy ki Quran and Hadith unho ne hi likhi ho.

 

[Safriz]

Hi,

You young pakistanis need to learn---when a base commander--- ( a general ) has to pick up arms and join the fight---that means it is very close to losing the battle----general officers give directives and orders----picking up weapons for a base commander is a last ditch effort---showing that there were not enough people to take charge of the situation.


ICARUS---you active millitary----your post says that---. The officers you are talking about---they are LT's 2nd LT's captains majors Lt col's----but not base commanders----.

The base commander joined the fight because he knew that he had fcuked up----he had not beefed up the security that was needed---timing of the attack was not calculated----seeing his failures in front of his eyes---he tried to salvage his career by jumping into the fire fight---.

Why does a base commander need to jump into a fight where there are supposedly 100's of soldiers on the base protecting the assets----unless there were hardly any soldiers protecting the base.

The base commander---his whole action stinks of incompetence.

All the security was concentrated at the front of the base towards GT road..
Minimal at the back and they assumed nobody will see this lapse....when their Prized possessions were less than 1 minute Sprint from the rear wall..
Did the base commander sleep during military planning lessons in his training days?

 

[Vinod2070]

Really, wish i could believe you but one of your country fellow was adamant to give credit to the TTP, however, one needs some comprehension ability to read between the lines.

It may be TTP or any of the hundreds of others that roam your streets. It is still your own mess.

 

[SQ8]

Hi,

You young pakistanis need to learn---when a base commander--- ( a general ) has to pick up arms and join the fight---that means it is very close to losing the battle----general officers give directives and orders----picking up weapons for a base commander is a last ditch effort---showing that there were not enough people to take charge of the situation.


ICARUS---you active millitary----your post says that---. The officers you are talking about---they are LT's 2nd LT's captains majors Lt col's----but not base commanders----.

The base commander joined the fight because he knew that he had fcuked up----he had not beefed up the security that was needed---timing of the attack was not calculated----seeing his failures in front of his eyes---he tried to salvage his career by jumping into the fire fight---.

Why does a base commander need to jump into a fight where there are supposedly 100's of soldiers on the base protecting the assets----unless there were hardly any soldiers protecting the base.

The base commander---his whole action stinks of incompetence.

what are you talking about old man, The base commander went out to lead from the front.. that is a huge morale booster.
And as for the failure to anticipate the attack, Do you even realize that the attack never got anywhere beyond the first perimeter?
Compare this to the Karachi attack, where the terrorists literally strolled in like its was their own house.

Have you even looked at the base? studied its surroundings?
The biggest mistake that was made was letting the civilian population get so close to the base. ..that is not something that happened ten years ago.. the village has been there since 1960. There was already an alert at the base for an attack, which is why the TERRORISTS never got beyond a few meters.
THE ONLY damage.. was to the Erieye from fragments of an RPG fired from 600 meters away.

There are no 100's of soldiers patrolling at any given time. do you even have an inkling.. a logical thought of the sheer cost of keeping such a force active?
Now Ill tell you something..
There have been huge measures taken since the Faisal Base attack..
The second the guard alerted and fired the first shot,An alarm went off in a multiple LCD equipped control room at the base, tens of cameras mounted on the base perimeter focused on that section. A signal also went to AHQ and the rapid SSG reaction force at tarbela. By the time more base security was responding, SSG were rushing out, A C130 equipped with the STAR Safire EO pod had its crew rushing out on the tarmac.
By the time the Base commander had joined his security chief at the firefight(where he took the bullet, got stitched and went back in) , the SSG's were airborne and 111 Brigade was also moving..
The result was that the whole operation was wrapped up in less than two hours.

Now what you are suggesting.. is that PAF is being stupid by not evicting every villager, every person out of their house..
That the PAF should scrap what little funds it has for equipment ..and spend it on keeping guards patrolling Kamra city and every other place it has a base?

Moreover? Do Human beings know when they are having their babies by the minute? or second?
because if you can get a doctor to write the exact second a woman is going to go into labour even 5 days before the given date of delivery.. then you can claim that the exact time of the attack can be calculated.

This is intelligence.. its only soo much accurate.
The attack was known about, which is why security was still potent enough to prevent any incursion..
what damage was done is also the result of a desperate final RPG launch from the village
Now what I do consider the PAF's fault is not having patrols within the village.. but is that feasible? Would villagers accept it?

Unless you think that was the base commanders fault too, or perhaps the Air Chief..
or perhaps mine and all of Pakistan's collective young men??

I can't believe the drawing room experts who give such absolute statements jese uss pata nahi security and strategy ki Quran and Hadith unho ne hi likhi ho.

thou shalt not question the wise ones.. who havent spent a minute in having ANYTHING to do with these fields..some not even in the country.
but make statements like the ten commandments themselves.

 

[KS]

Is there a possibility that RAW has a role in this ?

 

[SQ8]

All the security was concentrated at the front of the base towards GT road..
Minimal at the back and they assumed nobody will see this lapse....when their Prized possessions were less than 1 minute Sprint from the rear wall..
Did the base commander sleep during military planning lessons in his training days?

Both incorrect and hot headed statements...
If there was no security at that section.. then how were those terrorists stopped right there??within 20 meters of that wall?
THINK?

Again, a hot headed statement.

Is there a possibility that RAW has a role in this ?

Would you like it to?

 

[KS]

Would you like it to?

My question was not that, but does the Pakistani intelligence community think so ? You seem to have the inside info.

To answer yours, I would not be surprised if it did.

 

[Shak]

^^ Why should PAF issue statement to satisfy who`?
Instead PAF shall keep a hush and focus on JFT.
I'm expecting raids like Abbottabad on Pakistan's strategic assets / locations.
I really hope every armyman, have built early warning security perimeter around him.

What is the meaning of boalded part? can you please explain?

 

[Tehmasib]

 

[Rank]

IMO the situation of Pakistan Army - Incompetence. Whatever it is, we are in the state of WAR and still our media and military + politicians always used term for the sitation is "we are fighting WAR ON TERROR. Sentence "WOT" used by BUSH and whenever our Media/Politicians/Military used this term in front of the people of Pakistan. People though this is AMERICA's WAR. By preception if you used term "Rah-e-Nijat" something like that than people think this is our War. So we are fighting this war "In the state of War" with Police and local agencies. Army is totally failed to deliver frankly speaking. In such situation Pakistan's military installations must be very very strict and very hard to breach.

IMO this army has "NO DIRECTION". The military blackmail by Americans everytime. Look how Americans play this game. First they put "Haqqani terrorist org act" in the parliment and waiting for the clinton approval. Still why not Clinton approved this? Why our idiot Generals and Military officials passed statement regarding the operation in NW before operation?

This remind me the situation of Pakistan's police like when the robbers doing robbery in the bank and police got call, Police came with "TOO-TAAN TOO-TAAN TOOO-TAAN" with full of hooters and the robbers escaped before the police reached the bank.

The Army is totally failed to deliver in every situation. There is no technical/logical foreign and local policy by military. They don't even know what is next. They are just blackmail by Americans and just to safe their position do whatever - in real time. They don't have any policy for Pakistan now.

This Menhas base attack is totally different story. At least its a bigger picture and huge objectives behind this Menhas/Mehran/GHQ base which we will see in upcoming months when US already create perception about Pakistan's nuke like they did before Iraq invasion. They create perception and also send Haqqani and other organizations whom they think they got support from Pakistan's Military and Intel (as a terrorist organizations). They will move that act into the UNITED NATION and involve UN to start campaign against Pakistan's Nuclear Assets and bla bla bullshit which Americans and Indian doing from last many years.

The only Nation who have direct problem with our Nuclear Missiles is "India" and why America create perception about Pakistan nukes to behalf of India. India actually doing America's job - for next bigger plan to counter China and what India want in favor from US ? everyone knows what India actually want. India is totally incapable to create perception and even do anything against Pakistan on its own. The last option for India is to use American policy makers against Pakistan.

In fact India still not achieve their goals but the way situation is going on might be with in few months or year might be US will put this case (Pakistan's Nuclear issue) in International Organizations like UN and others to make that case proper and against Pakistan.

Pakistan Army still not properly understand whats going on and not even understand the big game behind the scene IMO.

 

[Shak]

Do you really think that Indians are so capable to do this job??? We are so fu(ked up with Asam situation. our politicians and army dont have any intention and CAPACITY to rule or destroy any part of the world. We cant handle our own country

 

[SQ8]

My question was not that, but does the Pakistani intelligence community think so ? You seem to have the inside info.

To answer yours, I would not be surprised if it did.

I catch whatever drips out of the people with their fingers in the pie.
So NO.. nothing concrete... everyone can speculate.. but NO.
terrorists need a direction.. they dont just march into Kamra or Faisal..
They have handlers.. Till the intel community can identify those..
There is nothing that can be said.

Do you really think that Indians are so capable to do this job??? We are so fu(ked up with Asam situation. our politicians and army dont have any intention and CAPACITY to rule or destroy any part of the world. We cant handle our own country

I consider this an insult to India.. and vehemently disagree with you.
However.. India is not that old either.. its 66 .. and that is baby years in terms of a nation..
Things take time.

 

[danger007]

hijacked PAF jet??/ didn't understand.... but their will be proud for giving birth to brave soldiers.....

 

[Peregrine]

Personnel reliability system, needs restructuring, so that all loose cannons can be dealt with in time.

 

[Last Hope]

Here is a post by our Think Tank, Najam Khan:

On the night of August 15, militants pounded the heart of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Base Minhas situated at Kamra — the place where the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), a leading aviation and defence production centre of Pakistan is located.

It was a well-planned attack that was precisely executed and skilfully targeted. Unlike most of the earlier attacks on Pakistani forces, the targets were not soldiers. The terrorists adopted the same mission profile that they used in the attack on PNS Mehran on May 22, 2011. They were aided by modern equipment like night vision goggles for better situational awareness at night. This time, terrorists took advantage of strategic surprise by attacking on the 27th of Ramazan; the Arabs did the same with Israelis in the Yom Kippur War of 1973.

The Kamra attack raises two major questions: why the Minhas Air Force Base? And why attack air surveillance systems only?

Minhas is one of the most important airbases of the PAF. The major part of its geographic location is shared by the PAC, which comprises four factories: the aircraft manufacturing factory, avionics production factory, Mirage repair factory and aircraft rebuild factory. These factories build, repair and overhaul major weapons systems of the PAF.

Minhas is home to two operational fighter squadrons, a search and rescue squadron and an air-surveillance squadron comprising the Saab-2000 Airborne Early Warning and Control Systems (AEW&C). Various villages are situated on the outskirts of the base. The main road of the PAC, on which all four factories are located, was open to the public until the suicide attack in 2007. These reasons made Minhas a prized target.

Just like the P-3 Orions of Pak Navy that were destroyed at Mehran, the Saab-2000 AEW&C aircraft are very expensive air-surveillance systems. They provide battlefield pictures, information about land, air or sea enemy targets and enhance situation awareness of the PAF combat fleets by sharing target information.

The Saab-2000 AEW&C is not a system to be used in the ongoing fighting in Fata. The long-range, high-endurance and deep radar coverage capability of the Saab-2000 AEW&C can challenge India’s air superiority in the region. For India, achieving air superiority without getting the best of such air-surveillance systems is not possible. Air battles of today and of the future will not entirely rely on well-equipped fighter units penetrating enemy airspace. The network centric system of war, which includes AEW&C systems sharing battlefield information with fighter units, ground units and battleships, will form the order of battle. AEW&C systems are not much of a threat to militants. The question to ponder upon is: are the terrorists attacking Pakistan’s AEW&C and surveillance systems at the behest of another country? This takes state sponsoring of terrorism to a whole new level. It is a manifestation of sub-conventional warfare. What would Pakistani decision-makers do to counter this strategic nightmare?

To address these challenges, Pakistani armed forces have to beef up the security of its military installations. Particularly, the bases with force multiplier systems and air-surveillance systems should be given extra security. The military bases with residential areas on their outskirts need to be monitored on a routine basis. In the present ongoing security situation, we cannot be relaxed at any time. Multilayered security should be made possible in all areas of bases because one thing is for sure: the attackers don’t use the front door anymore.