Attack on PAF Base Minhas

[tarrar]

This interview is to SHUT UP all I non sense

 

[Roybot]

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7262/7812101964_9545b1fc82_b.jpg

The alleged area from where Attackers entered or tried to enter...again we see many Watch towers/Check posts..
The probable AWACS hanger is indicated by Red paint...The oil tanks that caught fire are indicated by Volcano ..
The problems is this area are many...

Thats definitely the SAAB hangar, mere 100m from the boundary. You can see a SAAB 2000 parked infront of the Hangar.

 

[XYON]

Again.. incorrect and ill-informed conclusions.
What do you know of the base security measures?
Has there been any less.. there would have been a Mehran redux..
There was a system that worked like clockwork..
however.. where there was pre-emptive measures required.. there was none.

Yes I am aware of the base security!! a few pan-tilt-zoom cameras, high power lights yada yada! And you use this word a lot 'clock-work'!! What 'clock-work'? Base was brutally penetrated and if it was not up to the DSG soldier to raise the alarm, the intruders would have not been detected until they would have banged on the hanger doors of the Erieye!!

The so called base security should have been able to detect the intruders while they approached the wall (ground sensors), while they scaled the wall (e-fence with sector detection), while they cut the razor wire (it should have been electrified), no thermal imaging towers to detect the point of intrusion and sound a general alarm.

The TTP got into the base, destroyed expensive property, killed two people!!! WHAT FREKIN' BASE SECURITY ARE YOU REFERRING TO?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

When it takes 10 minutes for the security to show up---it means that there was no security---that meant that the base commander was the security detail.
Asim---Najam---Irfan---when you people learn to be honest with your analysis against the very people you cherish and look upto---that is the time you will begin to see a change in your nation---otherwise---you are there---the nation is there---rolling in dirt somewhere---.

MK saab,

I am getting old I think, I missed the 10 minutes lapse in response time of the cavalry.
I have to skim through the whole thread and websites to get more details on response time. thats almost equal to never.


now thats eternity. my analysis is based on what I know + my specific PoV to give a different flavour to the discussion. I guess I am being honest here
I have criticized where I thought it was the right thing. And hailed the performance where credit was due in my opinion

 

[KRAIT]

Irfan, but you have to think if in future such attack happens and there isn't case of this sepoy who single handedly stopped their advance, situation will be more grave. All Mastan sir is pointing out is, that valuable 15 mins and 3 terrorists, lost by those terrorists may be the biggest factor on defeat of those terrorists, I mean a god damn RPG fell near the AWACs (if report is true), if they would have advanced without any delay, well you can make the picture. The offensive power of the militant team reduced to 2/3 just because of one sepoy, and that 1/3 power may have achieved the target.

The counter operation worked beautifully but check the timeline and response time. This is the issue in discussion.

 

[Jango]

Once again - this report cannot be found anywhere else. There are 2 douzen reports confirming the Defence Ministers detailed comments. So are we to believe this one report and believe that the defence minister is lying, the PAF spokesman was lying and the ACM was lying when he praises the timely and effective defence of the base and its assets which condemned the 'evil designs of the enemy into dust'???

people don't go around quoting a specific person, in this case Spokesman PAF Group Captain Tariq Mehmood, unless they really have confirmed it. If they just wanted to fire a arrow in the dark, they would have said, un-named sources, condition of anonymity, Dawn has learnt etc etc, not specify a person. This was on TV BTW, not the print. Although the print was on Express.

 

[TAC]

The Base Commander of PAF Base Minhas did what one would expect from a unit head of any of the Talibaan rag-tag fighters and not what one would expect from a seasoned and battle-hardened professional military commander. I would be the first one to have praised the Base Commander to take up arms in case the Base was being over run by 200-300 armed TTP thugs and there would have been a fire fight in every nook. If for 9 intruding thugs an AIR COMMODORE along with his GROUP CAPTAIN and WING COMMANDER has to come out to join the fist fight along with the grunts then I am seriously worried about the future of this Air Force! In short, the base had no security detailed, the base commander was caught with his pants down as your say, and he his done this to salvage his carrier which I sure sure hope comes to an abrupt end with some jail time after the inquiry commission report comes out!

So you think the base commander sat there and thought - O crap - I've cocked up big - so better go and take a bullit in the arm to show I did my best ---- OR ---- do you think he may have thought - I am not going to sit here and wait for the wireless to tell me what has happened - I am going to get out there and personaly make sure that each one of these dogs is dead before doing any damage to the base I am responsible for.
At a base where a 20 year old sentry fought bravely for 12 minutes and gave the ultimate sacrifice -- I'll let others decide which of the two thought processes went through the same bases commander in cheif.

 

[Jango]

That Village is the biggest issue..
Until you have civillian population centre's near military bases.. expect the same.
However.. the colonial mentality has yet to leave our military's planners..
They prefer location in terms of beauty and not safety.

The thing that even more magnifies this problem, is the presence of hills right beside the wall. Those hills provides a vantage point for media, and also the terrorists who were covering fire.

 

[TAC]

people don't go around quoting a specific person, in this case Spokesman PAF Group Captain Tariq Mehmood, unless they really have confirmed it. If they just wanted to fire a arrow in the dark, they would have said, un-named sources, condition of anonymity, Dawn has learnt etc etc, not specify a person. This was on TV BTW, not the print. Although the print was on Express.

I can say I've seen the full fleet of Saabs lined up without a scratch on them with someone holding up todays newspaper on channel XYZ -- are you going to believe me without a link??

 

[Hyperion]

The counter operation worked beautifully but check the timeline and response time. This is the issue in discussion.

That's what MK has been referring to, and in honest opinion there is no way in hell that just sentry can handle that.

We need
* Anti personnel radars (lots of them)
* Projectile detection radars (loads of them)
* We need *man portable* and fixed EMP weapons. (with all sentries)
* We need non-lethal weaponry to subdue the insurgents and later interrogate them. More leads less attacks!

And a hundred more things. I think, it's need of the hour to get our priorities straightened. Instead of being kids and always wanting new and *expensive* goodies, we need to look at these *relatively simple and cheap* solutions to protect the assets that we already have.

Therefore regarding newer gizmos from the US of A, why not literally apply the logic of "a bird in hand is worth two in the bush"


I have a feeling, I maybe bashed pretty soon. So, better leave before that happens

 

[TAC]

The thing that even more magnifies this problem, is the presence of hills right beside the wall. Those hills provides a vantage point for media, and also the terrorists who were covering fire.

So with all these wonderfull vantage points -- you think someone may have spotted 2 Saabs going up in smoke?? or did someone hide them in their pocket.

 

[SamantK]

That's what MK has been referring to, and in honest opinion there is no way in hell that just sentry can handle that.

We need
* Anti personnel radars (lots of them)
* Projectile detection radars (loads of them)
* We need *man portable* and fixed EMP weapons. (with all sentries)
* We need non-lethal weaponry to subdue the insurgents and later interrogate them. More leads less attacks!

And a hundred more things. I think, it's need of the hour to get our priorities straightened. Instead of being kids and always wanting new and *expensive* goodies, we need to look at these *relatively simple and cheap* solutions to protect the assets that we already have.

Therefore regarding newer gizmos from the US of A, why not literally apply the logic of "a bird in hand is worth two in the bush"

IF I may add, a regular armed patrol with a repeat every 5 minutes at any point, looks like this was also missing..

 

[Jango]

Alot of things in this incident worked to our favour.

The heroics of DSG for one. Had he not killed the three intruders early on, they would carried on with their plan to split into two teams. He also raised the first alarm.

The 2IC (of the unit in charge of base security) was coincidentally present for Sehri at the base, and he quickly assembled his men, and moved to confront the attackers. Although the reaction could always be made better, but this was much better than the PNS Mehran debacle.

 

[Hyperion]

IF I may add, a regular armed patrol with a repeat every 5 minutes at any point, looks like this was also missing..

Nope, I don't agree. I have never ever trusted the human element. We are very complex creatures, where whose loyalties lye, no one knows.

Electronic counter measures FIRST and then the standard methods. We need to either find the fifth column within, OR, find the complacent arses in the armed forces, and boot them out. Enough is enough!

 

[Jango]

So with all these wonderfull vantage points -- you think someone may have spotted 2 Saabs going up in smoke?? or did someone hide them in their pocket.

Why the F does there have to be smoke???? It was not a direct hit on the plane. Planes are kept without fuel in Hangars and shelters. Not everything burns in a kaboom.

Secondly, the Hangar of Saabs was never shown by TV. It was only the tarmac and flight line across the runway, where the IL-76 and C-130's were parked. The building with the semi-circular roof. That is across the runway. THe Saab hangar is to the east end of the runway, and then going south from there.

Again I say, why there has to be smoke? A aircraft can be rendered useless without blowing it up in smokes. A aircraft structure is weak if a RPG explodes near it's nose.