Attack on PAF Base Minhas

[SEAL]

 

[karan.1970]

This confidence building measure has been suggested by Pakistan many times before. India always had rejected any such measure.

Link.. ???? (notice that I suggested reduction on IB not LOC)

 

[Roybot]

Was just playing around on Google Earth, this structure(am assuming hangar) seems to have come up in early 2010, around the time when Pakistan got its second SAAB Erieye? Could this be the SAAB hangar, cause if it is you can see why the terrorists would have decided to go for this target, its the closest to the boundary, close to village and around the area where the terrorists got into the base.

 

[karan.1970]

Actually, if I go back to the Mehran Airbase, I do recollect that USA replaced the 2 destroyed P3C Orions.. So may be all this confusion is to get another freebie from USA of the AWACS type

 

[Not Sure]

AWACS are PAF's trump card to negate the superiority of SU30MKI PESA radar. It is the smoking gun that is needed to spot IAF's air superiority fighters. It should make you wonder why these terrorists targeted this asset instead of attacking Ghazi Air base which houses Cobra's or Sargodha base which houses the F16's which have been used extensively in the FATA region. My fellow Pakistani brothers and sisters, please pay attention to this angle very closely. It appears that an unnamed adversary is taking advantage of this WOT to reduce Pakistan's conventional military power. The level of sophistication and funding required for an brazen attack like this needs powerful backing.

That assessment is superficial.

It is neither the AWACS nor the IL 78 that act as a deterrent against India. Rather, it is the nuke that assures Pakistan's territorial integrity against India.

What if the TTP is playing with the PA to take its focus away from their strongholds in NWA to the border with India?

If given a chance, what would the terrorists want to destroy that belongs to Pakistani armed forces? It won't be AKs or machine guns or cannons or tanks. Not even fighter jets that come in bunches. It will have to be something that is rare, and expensive. IL-78 and AWACS fit that category.

Looking at India, in case of a war, Indians wouldn't be worried as much about the AWACS or 78s. Their biggest worry will be the nukes of Pakistan.

Pakistan's conventional military power has never been a worry to India or to the US. It is the nukes that give them shudders.

The biggest proof that it is actually the TTP that carried out the attack, is the intelligence report given by the ISI - almost a week prior to the attack.

 

[Pfpilot]

@PFpilot.
Sir, you seem to have put a finger on the nub of the problem.

The problem or threat from internal elements or forces is as great as if not greater than elements or forces from without.
You have said that the (present) threat from India is nonexistent.
Let me try to be provocative; play the Devil's Advocate (or should it be Devil's Prosecutor?!) and say that:
India is a threat, was a threat and will remain a threat. But today India seems to be in a position to be a threat without doing much or even anything at all. To borrow a phrase from yester-years (which was used in a different context)- India is waging a "sitzkrieg".

WHY??
Because India does NOT need to do very much. Neither will India want to do much.
On the contrary, India has understood the dire need to grow as a society, as an economy; but with a very long way to go. I hope some of the discussants here are able to understand that before jumping to any conclusions.
Which can only remind one of a panic-stricken soldier letting loose his weapon in all directions. While thinking that he is fighting a war.

The attacks that have taken place in the past, i.e. GHQ, PNS Mehran, various Security Estt. as well as this one clearly indicate local involvement in facilitation and execution. And that factor does not seem to have been clearly understood or exposed in the investigations/inquiries that have been undertaken so far. That is really worrisome.
Exposing internal threats is much more difficult than identifying and exposing external ones. The reason is (as you put it so precisely) is that "they are simply 'us'"; they look like 'us', they talk like 'us', they behave like 'us' (on the surface) and we can even get lulled into thinking that they think like 'us'.

The process to eliminate these forces from Pakistan is not easy at this time, but tragically and more so dangerously; with the passage of time it will get even more difficult. That bears thinking about.

As an Indian, I do not see any satisfaction in seeing this happen again and again on an ever increasing scale. Its not about seeing some aircraft being destroyed (you may assume that I celebrated that), but to see a society facing a threat of being destroyed is something else. The portents of that are there, first these elements took on common people at the bottom of the heap (like the attack at Data Darbar), now they have upscaled their targets much higher; give that a thought.

And Icarus (my friend and colleague on this forum) this is for you.
One man in uniform laid down his life doing his job, a great job. I mourn that, I also mourn that his life was taken away by people who might have very well have been from his own. To me that is the greatest tragedy.
You will understand what I mean.

Thank you for that post, you did a far better job of elaborating my point than I did, myself. The long term ramifications of letting the extremist movement run its course are horrific indeed. The world may be terrified of an extremist Pakistan, but I can assure you the common Pakistani is even more terrified. Many of us Pakistanis have seen the impact of extremism on a smaller scale in our schools and families and society in general; it is amazing how topics of discussions at social gatherings have changed, how something as simple as a greeting has been Islamified, how something as severe as the blasphemy law is allowed to condemn innocents to death over intangible claims. These things, while not all encompassing in nature, are seeds to a changing Pakistan...a change many of us are deeply uncomfortable with. No one is asking for the elimination of Islam in a predominantly Muslim nation, but instead what is required is the curtailment of discrimination and violence in the name of the very religion it dirties.

Your description of the Indian position seems spot on and I have said time and again, it's the economical goals that are most important to India at this point, aside from presenting a great opportunity for peace through economic integration, it has given us the opportunity to shift gears to a more pressing matter, in dealing with the terrorist threat. After all, if the goal is some romanticized Indo-Pak war that will change the world as proclaimed by the greatest war mongers among us, then why not make sure you have something left to fight for.

Pakistan and India should get into a bilateral agreement that leads to significant force reduction on the Indo Pak border.. Atleast on the IB if not LOC.. That should free up a lot of resources for Pakistan to deploy in the western theater. If this is done, this would be bigger than any other CBM that our foolish politicians keep dreaming up...

Too bad our politicians refuse compromise of any type. This is one of the disadvantages of democracy, if there ever was one: It is the inability of politicians to see beyond their term in public office. They exist solely to gain more votes for their re-elections. Force reduction of any kind requires, someone, anyone, to make a concession and make the first move. No one does that because no one wants to appear weak.

For that very same reason peace never seems to come about because politicians see only a zero sum game; they all want either a concession from the opposing nation or if that doesn't work, then peace for eternity...either way something that can be attributed to themselves and immortalize them. Instead, smaller measures such as the one pointed out by you are really the only way forward, for our sake at this time and for India's when the 'friendly' neighbor on it's East becomes a little nosy.

 

[Safriz]

i think people overlooking the fact. A RPG pierceing the wall of hangar. Is this the quality of PAF hangars that cant stand a RPG Hit?

An RPG fuse is activated at the point of Impact.
If the point of Impact was Aircraft Hanger wall,the the RPG must have exploded on impact or centimeters inside the breached Hanger..That is if the Hanger was not reinforced as many here suggest....
After that the explosion expands and effectiveness decreases exponentially with distance.

Can such an explosion actually destroy an aircraft?

 

[Donatello]

Right guys, at long last, managed to speak to my contact, apart from all the scum bags wasted, one aircraft was damaged.

A press release will be issued by the PAF in a day or two.

Okay, please update us as soon as you can, so we can end this wrong information that is spreading like wild fire.

 

[Safriz]

Was just playing around on Google Earth, this structure(am assuming hangar) seems to have come up in early 2010, around the time when Pakistan got its second SAAB Erieye? Could this be the SAAB hangar, cause if it is you can see why the terrorists would have decided to go for this target, its the closest to the boundary, close to village and around the area where the terrorists got into the base.

This fuel dump was on fire when news channels showed smoke rising from the base..
The Hanger you show here does look like probable storage place of the SAAB awacs.....
The question is were these hangers reinforced?
If they were Reinforced then RPG fire couldn't have penetrated....

 

[khanasifm]

Deploy one BETSS_c system per location/ installation

http://www.google.com/gwt/x?gl=US&a...p;ei=FFYuUILpG8HG6gGX_oC4Dg&ved=0CBwQFjAA

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Thank you for that post, you did a far better job of elaborating my point than I did, myself. The long term ramifications of letting the extremist movement run its course are horrific indeed. The world may be terrified of an extremist Pakistan, but I can assure you the common Pakistani is even more terrified. Many of us Pakistanis have seen the impact of extremism on a smaller scale in our schools and families and society in general; it is amazing how topics of discussions at social gatherings have changed, how something as simple as a greeting has been Islamified, how something as severe as the blasphemy law is allowed to condemn innocents to death over intangible claims. These things, while not all encompassing in nature, are seeds to a changing Pakistan...a change many of us are deeply uncomfortable with. No one is asking for the elimination of Islam in a predominantly Muslim nation, but instead what is required is the curtailment of discrimination and violence in the name of the very religion it dirties.

Your description of the Indian position seems spot on and I have said time and again, it's the economical goals that are most important to India at this point, aside from presenting a great opportunity for peace through economic integration, it has given us the opportunity to shift gears to a more pressing matter, in dealing with the terrorist threat. After all, if the goal is some romanticized Indo-Pak war that will change the world as proclaimed by the greatest war mongers among us, then why not make sure you have something left to fight for.



Too bad our politicians refuse compromise of any type. This is one of the disadvantages of democracy, if there ever was one: It is the inability of politicians to see beyond their term in public office. They exist solely to gain more votes for their re-elections. Force reduction of any kind requires, someone, anyone, to make a concession and make the first move. No one does that because no one wants to appear weak.

For that very same reason peace never seems to come about because politicians see only a zero sum game; they all want either a concession from the opposing nation or if that doesn't work, then peace for eternity...either way something that can be attributed to themselves and immortalize them. Instead, smaller measures such as the one pointed out by you are really the only way forward, for our sake at this time and for India's when the 'friendly' neighbor on it's East becomes a little nosy.

I understand the gist of your statement. But amazingly, at the present time whatever positive movements that are taking place are at the level of the Politicos (at least the ones holding the reins of power in both countries). While unbelievably, the common populace (which could be the biggest beneficiaries) are fighting shy of committing whole-hearted support to these moves; instead very hastily finding "Sellouts" at the drop of a hat.

While the respective Security Establishments are tending towards some form of Neutrality.

Does that not seem to be a Big Conundrum?

(your response to Karan.1970 just triggered that thought)

 

[khanasifm]

bests-c http://www.google.com/gwt/x?gl=US&a...p;ei=FFYuUILpG8HG6gGX_oC4Dg&ved=0CBwQFjAA

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Actually, if I go back to the Mehran Airbase, I do recollect that USA replaced the 2 destroyed P3C Orions.. So may be all this confusion is to get another freebie from USA of the AWACS type

lol

ge ge

wo dood peetay buchay hay na

 

[Capt.Popeye]

This fuel dump was on fire when news channels showed smoke rising from the base..
The Hanger you show here does look like probable storage place of the SAAB awacs.....
The question is were these hangers reinforced?
If they were Reinforced then RPG fire couldn't have penetrated....

Just going by that picture: the Hangar(s) seems to be of Galvanised Sheet Metal (or similar material) construction which is adeaquate for Hangaring a/c for maintenance etc. Just Cover from Weather, not Cover from Fire.
The proximity of the Fuel Tanks (in the context of the incident) is disconcerting.

 

[Safriz]

Why terrorists ONLY target Pakistan's air surveillance/early warning capability?
Previously PC-3 Orion,a surveillance and early warning aircraft.
Now SAAB erieye..again surveilance and early warning...

Why TTP would be afraid of Pakistan's awacs? They don't have air force....
India has...

Deploy one BETSS_c system per location/ installation

Betss-C

what gibberish is this?