Atif Mian, Why Pakistan Isn't Getting Better.

[Norwegian]

Bughz e qadiani?????

Oh Bai hello.
Everything is not bughz.. the Chinese didn't like him and he had to pack up.. simple.. whether you like it or not.. the pressure was developed to force Imran....Imran had no plans to remove him.

Chinese didn't like him? So what? Is Pakistani govt run by Chinese?

 

[Wood]

Where is the solution ? Such a long thread and no tangible solution?

Atif has spoken about it elsewhere. Basically increase the tax 'rent-seeking' sectors that are controlled by the elite families in Pakistan and direct the money into export industry subsidies. He claims that this has not happened in Pakistan because of political interests.

 

[Enigma SIG]

This plague of democratic populism is designed purely to stop one from solving the real problems.

PPP and PMLN were populist too which is the reason Pakistan has regressed in every metric except corruption.

LMAO.

Imran Khan was placed into office by an establishment looking for free money from the U.S.

Lay off the moonshine bruh.

 

[crankthatskunk]

Well, instead of long discussions and twits. Pakistan's wows are very simple to understand.
1- Domestic Fiscal policy relating to the economy.
A- Pakistan not collect enough taxes to cover for their governmental expenses, that's includes, interests on debts, repayments of loans, development expenses and administrative expenses in all sectors.
B- That leads to Budget Deficit. Most of the time this deficit is covered by printing more money, which causes inflation. The rupees value go down. Inflation causes hardship for common people.
2- No efforts to increase the exports. Which means the earning potential remained low for decades. To increase exports, investment has to be made in the industries, which produce goods of international standards to export in the world markets.
A- The economy fuelled by imports. But this had negative impact on the economy. It weakens the rupees further, if enough foreign exchange is not earned through exports. To bridge the gap, foreign funding/loans are obtained, this once again further weakens the Rupee, inflation rises and poor people's lives get harder. Country becomes relient on importss, which it cannot afford to pay without foriegn help/loans.

This had been happening for decades, but no "Aristotle" has corrected the situation, which is culminating to possible "Default" scenario.

What should have happened for decades that domestic and foreign funding should have been used to established the industries which can produce goods for exports. Instead of Building "Motorways" and pocketing $412 million in to your pockets. Then claiming "we have build the motorway", like it was from their pockets. But all that is dead investment, producing nothing for the betterment of Pakistanis apart from lining their own pockets. Instead of this if the investment was made in factories/industries to products goods and services for domestic and international use, the relience on imports would have been less and export growth would have kept the rupee stable.

We don;t need "Mian's" advice for that, we are educated enough, I am as good and as much educated in the Economics as this man.

 

[R2D2]

We should not discuss views of 5th columnist Atif Mian.

 

[SQ8]

Even when PMIK in office was the rising hope of the new age for Pakistan with Riasat-e-Medina around the corner, even he could not keep Mian Sahib in his office to get the economy on the right track. Exhibit 2,374, as if more example to support my contention above re needed.



LOL. I tried talking sense about the CPEC here on PDF back then. Big mistake!

Depends on throwing the baby out with the bathwater..
was the idea of a trade route and infrastructure upgrades through Pakistan a great idea.. perhaps.. depends on execution and intent

However, CPEC never ended up that way due to factors going well beyond predatory financing.

One could cite the Mirage-2000 deal as an example.. they were a great procurement in itself but not at the price and corruption involved.

Is the nuclear weapons program beneficial to Pakistan? Perhaps
Are centrifuge bulbs bought for 75c sold to the “idara” at $200-300+ each through connections and corruption beneficial ??

 

[Jango]

Are centrifuge bulbs bought for 75c sold to the “idara” at $200-300+ each through connections and corruption beneficial ??

Wait till you hear about the markup that tubes and parts for MRI machines are sold for to faooooj!

Even if you sell at 30% lower price as compared to the current suppliers, you will still be at x4 the profit!

 

[SQ8]

Wait till you hear about the markup that tubes and parts for MRI machines are sold for to faooooj!

Even if you sell at 30% lower price as compared to the current suppliers, you will still be at x4 the profit!

Oh.. I know a little.. have made the rounds to the CMHs and the combined military accounts.
Would have been better if I dealt in Pork and Wine.

 

[Jango]

Would have been better if I dealt in Pork and Wine.

Major sahab woh bhi khareed lete

 

[KaiserX]

I was about to post this thread but just got busy in things.

While I do read his writings often, and agree with them too, what he says is most of the times not anything new. Even I know our money goes to unproductive sectors of the economy, our money is in cash (I have seen private jets bought with actual duffel bags full of USD), our tax base is miserably small, and so on.

But he often times lacks in giving a clear cut remedy. A sweeping statement like "We should divert money from sugar and real estate to productive sectors" is one which even I have been making.

What I want to see from him is if he becomes the finance minister tomorrow, then what steps will he undertake in the first 6 months or whatever...what will he do to bring about the change.

This is not to criticize his credentials or diss on his intellect, but I do believe a person of his knowledge and calibre should be presenting remedies rather than repeating what has been said a million times over.

Its quiet simple. Land holdings must be taxed. In the US/West we must pay property taxes yearly based on the value of the land. On top of this you have sales tax that the seller must pay given the property is sold. If the seller is an investor the sales tax is much high vs a resident of the property for 3+ years in most states.

Pakistan is still one of the few countries where agricultural land is not taxed at all which is not surprising because most agricultural land is still owned by a few select families. This land must be taxed at a high rate so that it is either sold off to smaller farmers or the govt itself should take over this farm land and redistribute it to small farmers. This is the only direct govt socialist action that I would advocate for in Pak tbh.

Most pakistanis invest funds into either property holdings or none value added businesses. You must make that costly so that funds are diverted to more value added sectors.

 

[VCheng]

Depends on throwing the baby out with the bathwater..
was the idea of a trade route and infrastructure upgrades through Pakistan a great idea.. perhaps.. depends on execution and intent

However, CPEC never ended up that way due to factors going well beyond predatory financing.

One could cite the Mirage-2000 deal as an example.. they were a great procurement in itself but not at the price and corruption involved.

Is the nuclear weapons program beneficial to Pakistan? Perhaps
Are centrifuge bulbs bought for 75c sold to the “idara” at $200-300+ each through connections and corruption beneficial ??

Yes, but I am content to accept CPEC as a game-changer and the center of the world's trading routes. Of course.

(I could argue having nuclear weapons just ensured war against Pakistan would move to the economic arena, but that is a whole 'nother discussion, as they say, and ain't nobody got time fer dat, considering how the economy is doing! )

 

[Vapnope]

When majority of Pakistanis are concerned about his personal beliefs more than his work, they deserve exactly the likes of Shaukat Tareen, Miftah and Dar who throw common people under the bus while mint millions. I remember one interview from Orya Maqbool who said "Atif ko nikal den apko bht swab milega". I am sure Pakistan has earned millions of virtues by now and as far as the economy goes, it is for everyone to see.

 

[SQ8]

Yes, but I am content to accept CPEC as a game-changer and the center of the world's trading routes. Of course.

(I could argue having nuclear weapons just ensured war against Pakistan would move to the economic arena, but that is a whole 'nother discussion, as they say, and ain't nobody got time fer dat, considering how the economy is doing! )

War against Pakistan was inevitable (one could argue that pretty much every nation has conflicts) in different domains. However, Pakistan has nearly lost the most important conflict already which is the battle with entrenched Pakistani establishment and even Pakistanis in general.

Dharti ka kya qusoor hai?

 

[Jango]

Its quiet simple. Land holdings must be taxed. In the US/West we must pay property taxes yearly based on the value of the land. On top of this you have sales tax that the seller must pay given the property is sold. If the seller is an investor the sales tax is much high vs a resident of the property for 3+ years in most states.

This already happens, but:
1- The tax amount is low. It was increased by PTI, but still lower than it should be. Hence, the buyer pays the amount that is actually required by law to the seller with proper channels, the rest is given under the table to meet the market rate.

2- A very high property tax should be imposed on those having more than 1 properties, and are not living in them.

Pakistan is still one of the few countries where agricultural land is not taxed at all which is not surprising because most agricultural land is still owned by a few select families. This land must be taxed at a high rate so that it is either sold off to smaller farmers or the govt itself should take over this farm land and redistribute it to small farmers. This is the only direct govt socialist action that I would advocate for in Pak tbh.

I was talking to someone regarding this, and the counter point presented was that imposing a tax on agri land for the small farmer and medium farmer would result in food inflation. Where a large part of the population is already below the poverty line, increase in food prices due to government taxation is bad.

Most pakistanis invest funds into either property holdings or none value added businesses. You must make that costly so that funds are diverted to more value added sectors.

Agreed.

 

[VCheng]

War against Pakistan was inevitable (one could argue that pretty much every nation has conflicts) in different domains. However, Pakistan has nearly lost the most important conflict already which is the battle with entrenched Pakistani establishment and even Pakistanis in general.

Dharti ka kya qusoor hai?

The real sad part is the realization that despite being convinced that war was inevitable, we did nothing to be ready for it. Dharti to azal se hey aur abad tak rahey gee, magar hum na hon gey. As I said above, this is now a whole another discussion.