Asw Carrier /Helicopter Carrier in PN.

[Tomahawk]

Aircraft carrier doesnt fit the PN doctrine who's primary purpose to protect the sea lanes of Pakistan. Besides maintaining a carrier will almost completely drain out PN resources which could otherwise be used for upgrading our frigates and subs. Moreover in an event of war, it will be very hard for the PN to protect its carrier from an assault due to the lack of strategic depth.

Ya i know our Naval doctrine doesn't call for a blue water navy...it was just an opinion.

 

[zeeshuisb]

Read This

Military experts such as John Keegan have noted that in any future naval conflict between reasonably evenly matched powers, all surface ships—including aircraft carriers—would be at extreme and disproportionate risk, mainly due to the advanced capabilities of satellite reconnaissance and anti-ship missiles. Contrary to the thrust of most current naval spending, Keegan therefore postulates that eventually most navies will move to submarines as their main fighting ships, including in roles where submarines play only a minor or no role at the moment.

 

[zulfiqar74]

like the idea of medium AC but as a forward base comprising of harriers and helicopters but it is just not possible because its very expensive as we need at least 8 support ships an we are still struggling badly to reach the minimum number of vassels if PN had 3 to 4 billion spare after having all the required vassels and equipment i think then it is possible for pak navy to invest in an AC

 

[Penguin]

An ASW carrier might be going overboard for PN but interesting could be something along the lines of the Japanese MSDF DDh-41 (Haruna) class or DDh 143 (Shirane) class, which operate 3 SH-3 Sea King or more recently 3 SH-60J and ASROC.
In a similar vein are the Italian Vittorio Veneto with up to 9 Agusta-Bell AB212 or 6 Agusta-Sikorsky ASH-3H Sea King and Terrier (SM1-ER/Asroc) or the smaller, preceeding Andrea Doria class with Terrier (SM1-ER/ASROC) and up to 2 Sea King and up to 4 AB 212. These italian ships and esp. Veneto were much bigger and referred to as helicopter cruisers.
A russian and still bigger variation would be the Moskva class (project 1123 Kondor) with 18 Ka-25 Hormone helicopters, SA-N-3 SAM and SUW-N-1 (FRAS 1) ASW missiles.
Essentially combining flotilla command with local area AAW and ASW functions into one ship.

 

[Super Falcon]

financially we cannot but im sure PN would like to have one carrier like that and why helicopter why not harriers

 

[SeaToby]

I believe Pakistan needs destroyers first before buying a carrier either for aircraft or helicopters. What Pakistan needs before carriers is possibly an amphibious ship which can be also used for sea lift, evacuations, and humanitarian missions. Something similar to the Dutch Rotterdam LPD or the British Bay class LSL...

At the moment the US is decommissioning such LPD ships, India having recently bought one. Pakistan could do so as well. While the ships are old, there is still some life in them, and operating an old one would lead to understanding what a new similar ship should be...

 

[Frankenstein]

PN dont need any of these i guess

 

[Penguin]

financially we cannot but im sure PN would like to have one carrier like that and why helicopter why not harriers

Because Harriers are no longer produced and reaching the end of their service life. The only other option would be F35B.

 

[Meeteepao]

I dont believe PN needs Aircraft Carriers.

Aircraft Carriers are required for missions that require extremely distant targets to be struck. The overall idea behind owning one is that you want to increase your influence in a specific region. Look at the US aircraft carriers sitting in the Gulf.

Pakistan needs to defend its waters and for that it doesnt need aircraft carriers. At times of war, God forbid, aircraft carriers become a very risky asset to own - they are very vulnerable to air strikes and need proper protection from a number of vessels - therefore being a costly affair.

People may argue that India owns one or two of them, but India has a different agenda. India wants to be the regions superpower. For that it is rapidly expanding its Air Force, Navy and Army capabilities.

Our fighter aircraft can cover the entire area of our country in case of emergencies, be it land or water, and can deal with the enemy effectively!

 

[navtrek]

I don't think a large scale LPH is what Pakistan needs but I like the idea of the smaller assault ships like the Albion class in service with the Royal Navy. I think they could be useful for peacekeeping operations.

 

[Archie]

This being 2010 , i think u guys should check out HMS invincible , this ship will be retired anytime now .Granted that it is 30 yrs old but it is still capable for another 20-25 yrs
Pakistan can get the ship for free , if PAK navy is willing to spend 500-600 mil$
then it can get quite a good platform
Now let me explain how this money can be spent
Use 200 mil$ to refurbish the ship ,since it has been kept in storage since 2006,
so as to make it operational again
There is no need to spend a lot of money on fancy weapons , as what the ship already has will be enough , but still you should spend something like 200 mil$
to upgrade its system at a higher level than the OHP Class frigates u are acquiring
Another 200 mil$ should be spent on airwing
You can get about 12 second hand harrier aircraft for about 100 mil$
remaining 100mil$ can be spent on acquiring 6-8 helicopters ie
2 aew heli , 2 utility , 4 anti sub
or u can just use the helicopters which PN currently operates

 

[Archie]

SECOND option will be as follows
If u dont want the second hand 22000ton invincible , another option could be a new but smaller ship
something of the size of thai aircraft carrier Chakri narubet at 12000 tons
a brand new ship of this size operating 12 aircraft should not cost more than 800 mil$
If PN require something larger then it can get something of the ize of italian Garibaldi class ast 17000 ton , operating 15 aircragt including Harriers , sea king etc
The cheapest option would be acquiring an Decomissioned american LPD Like the ins Jalashwa
you can get a 16000ton , 35 yr old ship with 8 old sea kings for around 100 mil$ , and it can provide a much needed boast to anti sub warfare and amphibious assault capability to the PN , PLUS IT WILL BE A GREAT ASSET DURING HUMANITARIAN WORK , like Tsunami rescue

 

[MZUBAIR]

To contribute in this thead.....

PAK ordered 4 F-22P, with 1Z9 Helo.
I think PN should procure 4 more. 8 helos on the deck of 8 boats are f9.


Dont forget USS McInerney (FFG-8) also have a deck of 1 helo (like SH-60 / MH-60 Seahawk)

Roumors are that PAF might get 7 more FFG-8.


Recent news that PN is also intrested in Chinees Type 054 that also holds helos deck


8 (F-22P) + 8 (FFG-8) + 4 (Chinees Type 054)....20 helos on these boats r batter then on a single Helo Carrier

 

[Indiarox]

PN should look for some small or medium size aircraft carrier, like Britian will soon decommission its Invincible Class Aircraft Carriers, the first of wihich will be taken out of service in 2010.

Going for some thing like that is a waste of money .And the Battle group you will need to build around it wont come cheap.It also does not suit P.N's defensive doctrine. You people very well know the problems we(Indians) faced and are facing with the A.C.
fell free to disagree

 

[Indiarox]

This being 2010 , i think u guys should check out HMS invincible , this ship will be retired anytime now .Granted that it is 30 yrs old but it is still capable for another 20-25 yrs
Pakistan can get the ship for free , if PAK navy is willing to spend 500-600 mil$
then it can get quite a good platform
Now let me explain how this money can be spent
Use 200 mil$ to refurbish the ship ,since it has been kept in storage since 2006,
so as to make it operational again
There is no need to spend a lot of money on fancy weapons , as what the ship already has will be enough , but still you should spend something like 200 mil$
to upgrade its system at a higher level than the OHP Class frigates u are acquiring
Another 200 mil$ should be spent on airwing
You can get about 12 second hand harrier aircraft for about 100 mil$
remaining 100mil$ can be spent on acquiring 6-8 helicopters ie
2 aew heli , 2 utility , 4 anti sub
or u can just use the helicopters which PN currently operates

what about the battle group around it(Aircraft carrier) .
tats approx 1.1 bill to buy and 2-2.5 bill to get the other ships.
Will britan sell??? the biggest question to be answered