Assalamu alaikum. New member here from Khanabadosh community

[Crusher]

.......................

They are not conquered people because they came from India quite recently. The old ancient habitants of indus valley could be called conquered but they didn't left any trace in form of distinct community like your people have in ...........................

Exactly, they all speak some form of Rajashtani langauge among themselves as their mother language. Though over the centuries they have acquired bilingualism in Punjabi, Saraiki, probably Sindhi and Pashto too depending the areas of their main engagements during seasonal migrations. But Rajasthani language being their mother language preserved at least in Punjab shows that all these heterogeneous nomadic gypsy tribes/folks have originated from Rajasthan province of modern India and expanded to other neighboring areas later. Essentially speaking they were folk festival/melas entertainers, they followed melas all round the year in various areas of Punjab and else where.

 

[Awara Pardesi]

This is how we are humiliated everyday

Logon ko hamay is tarha bula kar beizzat karne mein maza aata hai

Before TV and radio, entertainment was provided by animals and low castes

Exactly, they all speak some form of Rajashtani langauge among themselves as their mother language. Though over the centuries they have acquired bilingualism in Punjabi, Saraiki, probably Sindhi and Pashto too depending the areas of their main engagements during seasonal migrations. But Rajasthani language being their mother language preserved at least in Punjab shows that all these nomadic gypsy tribes/folks have originated from Rajasthan province of India and expanded to other neighboring areas later. Essentially speaking they were folk festival/melas entertainers, they followed melas all round the year in various areas of Punjab and else where.

Yes but in our case we son’t speak Rajasthani and Punjabi or Saraiki. Instead we speak Pashto, Farsi and Urdu. Langauge changes whenever people stay somehwere for a significant amount of time. Before Rajasthani, they used to speak something else

Exactly, they all speak some form of Rajashtani langauge among themselves as their mother language. Though over the centuries they have acquired bilingualism in Punjabi, Saraiki, probably Sindhi and Pashto too depending the areas of their main engagements during seasonal migrations. But Rajasthani language being their mother language preserved at least in Punjab shows that all these nomadic gypsy tribes/folks have originated from Rajasthan province of India and expanded to other neighboring areas later. Essentially speaking they were folk festival/melas entertainers, they followed melas all round the year in various areas of Punjab and else where.

Rajasthani identity and Marwari language is strongest among Bheels who are nomadic scheduled Hindu caste. They also speak Saraiki, Punjabi and other languages and ma ny are based in Cholistan Rahim Yar Khan and they perform at melas

Just please watch this everyone

It makes me very sad eveytime I see it. The first time was heart breaking because I have heard all of this in real life

 

[Kabira]

Exactly, they all speak some form of Rajashtani langauge among themselves as their mother language. Though over the centuries they have acquired bilingualism in Punjabi, Saraiki, probably Sindhi and Pashto too depending the areas of their main engagements during seasonal migrations. But Rajasthani language being their mother language preserved at least in Punjab shows that all these nomadic gypsy tribes/folks have originated from Rajasthan province of India and expanded to other neighboring areas later. Essentially speaking they were folk festival/melas entertainers, they followed melas all round the year in various areas of Punjab and else where.

Exactly. I agree with that such people are discriminated against. But its not state or religious reasons like in India. Its only limited to rural areas or where they live like gypsys. Its more of a class thing. OP is trying very hard to use same Indian dalit like arguments here. In India they make sense but not in Pakistan. For one these people are not even indigenous to Pakistan so there is no question of evil Pakistanis displacing from their lands. In fact its other way around, they have went to village to village after coming from Rajasthan.

 

[Crusher]

There is no point in lumping all these groups. Like you said they all decent from Bhils which is BS. All these groups which are known for being dalits in India, where that word originated have different origins.

Your ancestors migrated from Rajasthan>south punjab to south KP/bannu. They were not indigenous of KP and neither pashtuns. Mussalis are likely group of people that have migrated from gangetic plains. This word is only used in punjab and its not even that old. Its origin lies in post colonial settlement of British from east/India in to west punjab/Pakistan canal colonies.

I used to think that "Dalit" is some kind of "monolithic" people all over india but my research shows me that "Dalit" is a designation of rather recent origin. A Dalit in indian Punjab for example doesn't share common descent in recent centuries with a Dalit in Tamil Nadu or Maharashtra. Aslo just like higher castes have their "fine structure", Dalits also have their own fine structure, bhangi and chammar are both considered "Dalit" by indian hindu caste system but a Chammar will not marry a "bhangi" because a bhangi is a "lower caste" than a chammar, funny as it may sound to the people who believe in simple generalizations.

Also these Pakhiwas/Changar type nomadic people remained outside of "mainstream" hindu society in the past, when a Pakhiwas/changar will settle permanently among or near Hindu caste settlements, the only "caste" status that he is going to achieve is that of "Dalit" irrespective of how that Pakhiwas/changar clan people look. Even if they would settle in Tamil Nadu where majority of hindus are black skinned, there also they will be treated as "Dalit" by their neighboring hindus.

 

[Kabira]

In my area Sialkot and around we call them Changars / Pakhiwas and their main business is begging, collecting plastic bottles etc....men do nothing only drinking homemade kupi and play cards....only women and children are doing some work even begging and prostitution....

Now their new business is grabbing lands ....first they beg landowners to let them place their temporary jughies and later they refuse to vacate and demand money....
My uncle and my friend already a victims of these scams and later paid handsome amount in order to free their lands / plots.

@war&peace @Brass Knuckles

In recent years some of them have settled in our village. But we allowed them to settle, and have to report to police. They have their chughis here. Reason was lack of old kami people in village willing to do menial work because they no longer have to.

 

[Crusher]

Exactly. I agree with that such people are discriminated against. But its not state or religious reasons like in India. Its only limited to rural areas or where they live like gypsys. Its more of a class thing. OP is trying very hard to use same Indian dalit like arguments here. In India they make sense but not in Pakistan. For one these people are not even indigenous to Pakistan so there is no question of evil Pakistanis displacing from their lands. In fact its other way around, they have went to village to village after coming from Rajasthan.

Contrary to the propagated belief spread by douche bags in Pakistan that "indus valley" people in Punjab are these pakhiwas/changar or bhangi/musalli people and everyone else is an outsider, the fact of the matter is that in Punjab village social structure of farmers/artisans/traders is most probably maintaining itself from the times of indus valley era to this day. Yes new people got "absorbed" among farmers/artisan/traders classes of villages or cities in Punjab from time to time but it is still they who represent the indus valley people of Punjab despite being diluted due to admixture with later populations over the thousands of years which is a natural phenomenon anyway.

 

[Awara Pardesi]

Exactly. I agree with that such people are discriminated against. But its not state or religious reasons like in India. Its only limited to rural areas or where they live like gypsys. Its more of a class thing. OP is trying very hard to use same Indian dalit like arguments here. In India they make sense but not in Pakistan. For one these people are not even indigenous to Pakistan so there is no question of evil Pakistanis displacing from their lands. In fact its other way around, they have went to village to village after coming from Rajasthan.

Obviously the situtation in India is religiously sanctioned is much worse but you cannot say these traces of Hindu Brahman mentality are not still present in Pakistan. They are. Class and Money does not always everything but as you say I will admit it does have more to do with class in Pakistan but classism is tinged with casteism

Contrary to the propagated belief spread by douche bags in Pakistan that "indus valley" people in Punjab are these pakhiwas/changar or bhangi/musalli people and everyone else is an outsider, the fact of the matter is that in Punjab village social structure of farmers/artisans/traders is most probably maintaining itself from the times of indus valley era to this day. Yes new people got "absorbed" among farmers/artisan/traders classes of villages or cities in Punjab from time to time but it is still us who represent the indus valley people of Punjab despite being diluted due to admixture with later populations over the thousands of years which is a natural phenomenon anyway.

Who is your ‘us’ that represent Indus valley people? Sayyeds or Arabs?

I used to think that "Dalit" is some kind of "monolithic" people all over india but my research shows me that "Dalit" is a designation of rather recent origin. A Dalit in indian Punjab for example doesn't share common descent in recent centuries with a Dalit in Tamil Nadu or Maharashtra. Aslo just like higher castes have their "fine structure", Dalits also have their own fine structure, bhangi and chammar are both considered "Dalit" by indian hindu caste system but a Chammar will not marry a "bhangi" because a bhangi is a "lower caste" than a chammar, funny as it may sound to the people who believe in simple generalizations.

Also these Pakhiwas/Changar type nomadic people remained outside of "mainstream" hindu society in the past, when a Pakhiwas/changar will settle permanently among or near Hindu caste settlements, the only "caste" status that he is going to achieve is that of "Dalit" irrespective of how that Pakhiwas/changar clan people look. Even if they would settle in Tamil Nadu where majority of hindus are black skinned, there also they will be treated as "Dalit" by their neighboring hindus.

Dalits are all the people who left out of Hindu caste sustem, even Muslims are Dalits

In recent years some of them have settled in our village. But we allowed them to settle, and have to report to police. They have their chughis here. Reason was lack of old kami people in village willing to do menial work because they no longer have to.

Treat them well

 

[Kabira]

Contrary to the propagated belief spread by douche bags in Pakistan that "indus valley" people in Punjab are these pakhiwas/changar or bhangi/musalli people and everyone else is an outsider, the fact of the matter is that in Punjab village social structure of farmers/artisans/traders is most probably maintaining itself from the times of indus valley era to this day. Yes new people got "absorbed" among farmers/artisan/traders classes of villages or cities in Punjab from time to time but it is still they who represent the indus valley people of Punjab despite being diluted due to admixture with later populations over the thousands of years which is a natural phenomenon anyway.

Its even more ridiculous when they they speak Rajasthani and their exact same kin even now live in Rajastan. Proving once again that they are not even that old in Pakistan.

 

[Awara Pardesi]

Actually Indians and Hindus treat us the worst. They cannot even acknowledge our existence. At least with Pakistanis can somewhat engage in dialogue and daleels and Afghans have good heart. Indians are the most narrow minded and confined to their barbaric worldview of infeririority complex. The only good Indians are the Dalits and Muslims and Sikhs, Christians many of whom were also Dalits and warriors like Rajputs

Its even more ridiculous when they they speak Rajasthani and their exact same kin even now live in Rajastan. Proving once again that they are not even that old in Pakistan.

We are all speaking English. Are we white Angrez?

 

[Kabira]

We are all speaking English. Are we white Angrez?

You will be laughed off if you ever claimed to be ethnic British while speaking english.

 

[Crusher]

Its even more ridiculous when they they speak Rajasthani and their exact same kin even now live in Rajastan. Proving once again that they are not even that old in Pakistan.

Here in this video Naseebo Lal herself accepts that her family origin is from Rajasthan like other Pakhiwas tribes. The link will start from the exact time stamp where she accepts it,

Naseebo Lal singing a folk Rajasthani folk song in her mother language Rajashtani,

 

[Kabira]

Here in this video Naseebo Lal herself accepts that her family origin is from Rajasthan like other Pakhiwas tribes. The link will start from the exact time stamp where she accepts it,

Naseebo Lal singing a folk Rajasthani folk song in her mother language Rajashtani,

Thank you, again proves these people are not that old in Pakistan. There is propaganda being run by certain people like OP. I remember one christian sweeper on tv had similar views. Like how rest of Pakistanis are arabs/outsiders and they are indigenous Playing victim card in Pakistan when it should be directed towards India from where they run off.

 

[Awara Pardesi]

Thank you, again proves these people are not that old in Pakistan. There is propaganda being run by certain people like OP. I remember one christian sweeper on tv had similar views. Like how rest of Pakistanis are arabs/outsiders and they are indigenous Playing victim card in Pakistan when it should be directed towards India from where they run off.

So you don’t consider is Pakistanis

We have nowhere to go.

Hum sab ko bus line mein khara kar ke goli maar do

 

[Kabira]

So you don’t consider is Pakistanis

We have nowhere to go.

Hum sab ko bus line mein khara kar ke goli maar do

Just correcting your history. Anyone with CNIC is "Pakistani". But we are not responsible for these people historical misery, neither they were ever persecuted in Pakistan and thrown out of their lands like you said. For that you have to blame Rajasthani high castes. Yes people do look down on them but many people can claim that.

 

[Indos]

@Awara Pardesi

Walaikum Salam brother, greeting from Indonesia

It is interesting to read your story, it is the first time I heard there is nomad people from South Asian, particularly Pakistan. I do read up some story about gypsy though before.

I also heard that your faith in Islam is not as strong as in the old days. I hope you try to pray again and fasting in Ramadhan. It is essential to keep and grow our relation with God by praying. At least you can start praying once a day and try to increase it gradually. Not praying to God is similar in condition with not communicating with God. If our relation with parent can be damaged due to not communicating with them, it is also similar with our relationship with God.

You also said that you start reading Old Testament, yup I also have Bible at my home and have read some of it, but I hope you try to finish reading Quran first with the translation.

Here is a good website to learn Islam and other religion, particularly Christian.

https://www.islamreligion.com/