Assalamu alaikum. New member here from Khanabadosh community

[RAMPAGE]

It would be an interesting book, but not because these facts are unknown. The Roma have been studied until the researchers turned blue in the face. Even the Domari have been studied extensively. However, the extent of knowledge specific to Pakistan and to Afghanistan in this man's posts is unexpected and very large (obviously, we are getting a part of the story, not the whole, due to shortage of space and time).

Have you read much of Thomas Hardy? A very long post by the OP at beginning of the thread made me feel as if I were reading the histories of the old inhabitants of Wessex.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

Yes, that's a contradiction. But nationalism itself contradicts the idea of humanity. Rabindranath Tagore called nationalism a menace. The idea of the Nation State came only recently through the French Revolution as the path to abolish monarchy and feudalism but the Nation State and Nationalism became problems themselves.

It is about righteous nationalism or patriotism which respects the people.

Belonging to tribe, ethnicity, or nation is part of humanity and human history.

There were city states, small states, large states, and empires since ancient times.

The French revolution overthrew the French monarchy and introduced a new system of government. But, France as a nation state was France before and after the revolution.

 

[Zibago]

Proof or it didn't happen.

I joined in cuz a fair maiden in my class was part of it and ending up winning first prize

 

[Joe Shearer]

Have you read much of Thomas Hardy? A very long post by the OP at beginning of the thread made me feel as if I were reading the histories of the old inhabitants of Wessex.

It had those overtones.

I was frankly puzzled.

He might have been a poseur, but his account was extremely accurate with regard to the bits outside Pakistan; this has been a hobby of mine, and I was astounded at the meticulous detailing. What he said about Pakistan and Afghanistan was fascinating; I had no idea about the bulk of it, but did know about Churhas and Bhangis and their ill-treatment. Regarding the roots and origins of these people in India, he was skimpy, and that is exactly how it should be, if he was a genuine Khanabadosh.

The way he was hounded was unpleasant. He might have suffered worse in discussions with Indians, so all I can do is to wish him luck in all he does, and to hope that he will vanish into anonymity as he seems to wish to do. If he was a fraud, he was a most erudite fraud.

 

[Zibago]

The idea of the Nation State came only recently through the French Revolution as the path to abolish monarchy and feudalism but the Nation State and Nationalism became problems themselves.

Before nationalism you had religious and tribal alliances
The desire to belong and protect your people has always existed its just that even in 21st century the idea of nation state exist and is solidified
The Russians were punished as a collective just like Iranians
You have to look out for your people as no one else will

 

[Joe Shearer]

It is about righteous nationalism or patriotism which respects the people.

There is no such thing.

As ordinary citizens, there is no option but to be a loyal patriot, not from reluctance but because society is ordered that way. That does not mean that if nationalism were to be dissolved, I would not embrace that trans-nationalist society.

 

[Zibago]

As ordinary citizens, there is no option but to be a loyal patriot, not from reluctance but because society is ordered that way. That does not mean that if nationalism were to be dissolved, I would not embrace that trans-nationalist society.

Also I believe it is a primal instinct of Humans as a species to be supportive of their tribe or group which in the modern case is a nation state

 

[Zhukov]

Why are people getting so excited. Khana Badosh community is massive back in my Home city Faisalabad. I dont know about their origins or any common ancestary between different regional communities , but they are plenty in Faisalabad. Mostly They have huge Flocks of Dairy Cows and Camals. Their settlements are mostly beside green areas on outskirts of cities and they sale Milk. Some times their are like 50+ Dairy animals in one community. Beside milk selling the do buying and selling of animals like sheep and goats.Their men Also work in seasonal labor like Brick making , Rice Cultivation etc. And those of them who get some education or save enough to start a business move away into cities.
Are they not common in other cities?

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

There is no such thing.

As ordinary citizens, there is no option but to be a loyal patriot, not from reluctance but because society is ordered that way. That does not mean that if nationalism were to be dissolved, I would not embrace that trans-nationalist society.

National identity may merge into yet another national identity, it means we cannot dissolve national identity unless we live as hunter-gatherer. Being a patriot, is being righteous. Patriotism is not about a nationalist ideology which is effectively brainwashing. We cannot tell people to get lost from the land or be killed because they are a different religion. This is a crime. People in the future will look at Bharati politicians today as genocidal.

 

[Joe Shearer]

National identity may merge into yet another national identity, it means we cannot dissolve national identity unless we live as hunter-gatherer.

That is simplistic and very crude.

Being a patriot, is being righteous

You have to be what is wanted of you.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

That is simplistic and very crude.


You have to be what is wanted of you.

What is wanted of me? Nope. Humans are born free. Humans are nobody's tool. Born free under God.

 

[Joe Shearer]

What is wanted of me? Nope. Humans are born free. Humans are nobody's tool. Born free under God.

You are turning out to be unexpectedly complex. I will answer this on my return. Bear with me.

 

[jamahir]

I joined in cuz a fair maiden in my class was part of it and ending up winning first prize

All in a good day's work then. Well done. And did you win the fair maiden as well ?

There is no such thing.

As ordinary citizens, there is no option but to be a loyal patriot, not from reluctance but because society is ordered that way. That does not mean that if nationalism were to be dissolved, I would not embrace that trans-nationalist society.

Zibago, @Novus ordu seclorum, I will generally go with the above including because I am a Communist which is a trans-national ideology though it may not be the reason for Joe to embrace a trans-national society. The other reasons for me including being a past listener to Radio Netherlands and BBC World Service which had programs on what they called World Music which is nothing but folk music from various parts of the world where some of the music may have blended with other music streams like the flamenco that Joe posted.

 

[Zibago]

All in a good day's work then. Well done. And did you win the fair maiden as well ?

Nein

 

[Bilal9]

Watch in this talk at 22:07 mins what Indian Dalit leader Jignesh Mevani says about what India's Dear Leader Modi said in a stupid book in 2009. Jignesh also mentions Chamars.

The word Chamar refers to people collecting and processing animal skins, which is a messy and sub-human job looked down at by upper castes.