Asean should be wary of being drawn into Japan's dispute

[NiceGuy]

Well, I will use "cooperation" instead "support", Vietnam try to hold neutral, not support a country against another, it's write in Vietnam foreign policy. The both need each other, so we go with that way.

Thanks ,bro. I just write my comment base on my own analysis, so sometime I don't have the correct words for it

It's different with our case, bro. People of South Vietnam also support CPV government and Republic of Vietnam failed to control country with many fail policy and actions. ROC not like that now, many people still want hold separation from mainland.

I believe "peaceful unification" could happen if China reach the level of US or better. It's not meaning of military, but is development in many sections, if China being strong and stabilization, so it should be peaceful and respected by others and people of Taiwan will want "peaceful unification". Then US had no reason for intervention as well as not have capable.

I think it doesn't have much different.Republic of Vietnam made many fail policy and actions coz it was Fooled by our spies who under the cover of 'advisors'. You can read it from the book 'Perfect spy'.

Just bcz China spies are not smart enough to fool TW govt and CIA, so TWnese don't feel disappointed abt their leader ,so not many of them support CCP.

It's hard for China to reach to the level of U.S, even Chinese here also know that, so I don't have to explain more abt it. So I think "peaceful unification" is just a dream for at least more than 30 years ahead.

 

[Soryu]

Well, I don't agree with all part, many thing push the case.
"take revenge in all the humiliations they suffered at the hands of Japan and Western Powers and restore the prestige of their previous Han Dynasty" is certain in head of some fanboys and military hawk, but it's not all Chinese liked that. That is the Hope!

Japan does not pose a threat to anyone and it is merely trying to enable itself to defend its borders and be able to come to the defense of other countries in the region who want it.

Japan wants peace and ASEAN wants peace. Who is the provocateur? Who always want to disturb peace? Who wants only bilateral talks which will lead to nowhere? Ahh they also want multilateral talks in the Senkaku debacle, but only to shout insults at Japan in UN and remind the world of sins long past. Well I don't get it, China had experienced the same problems since long before with the Westerners such as British, French, Russians, Mongols, Turkish, etc. even experienced the worst problems with Opium war, the infamous brutal "Cultural Revolution" that killed 70 million Chinese etc. The unification of China was achieved by the kind of mass slaughter that today would land you in a war crimes trial.

And now China's policy shifted from “Revolutionary” to “Expansionism”. It knows pretty well that its future survival rests mainly on acquiring resources mostly from outside its barren mainland. It’s so obvious that China wants to disturb peace, unity and development in Asia Pacific region…ASEAN in particular. They are envying ASEAN solidarity and undermining the group with their acts and pronouncements. Provocative is the least to describe their intention. They won’t follow international law agreement, Code of Conduct whatsoever; they are the problem now in this side of the world

If Hitler made Germany crazily arrogant, too much money made, China think the same. Their mindset is, this is the time to take revenge in all the humiliations they suffered at the hands of Japan and Western Powers and restore the prestige of their previous Han Dynasty. Well there is really an obese monster in our midst, it keeps on consuming everything, and steals all it sees. It will consume all until it dies from its own weight.

 

[kalu_miah]

It is good to see some Indonesians active here, so we can finally have some POV from Indonesian perspective. I wish we could see some Japanese and "authentic" Korean voices as well.

As many posters may recall from previous discussions, I beg to differ that ASEAN should be wary of getting involved with these regional issues. In my opinion, both Japan and Indonesia are missing the opportunity to forge a closer tie using these conflicts as opportunities.

The spoiler in this region is the outside balancer, the US. The goal of all Asians should be to eventually oust the outsider including all its bases. For that to happen, we need balance and that balance can only be achieved if Japan and South Korea formally joins ASEAN (creating ASEAN+2) with a green signal from China, with the understanding that if and when this ASEAN+2 is a viable security guarantee for both Japan and South Korea, then US bases from both Japan and Korea will be asked to move out.

China is not in a position to create a unified ASEAN+3, that simply does not sound feasible. It will not be good for China, nor will it be good or acceptable for the rest. China has bigger fishes to fry and bigger problems to worry about. ASEAN+2, with China's blessing would be of greatest benefit for the peace, stability and development of the region.

For Asia, China is obviously becoming the leading nation. Asian landmass can be roughly cut into 4 regions with a cross. There is China sitting in Northeast (quadrant I) and India sitting in Southwest (quadrant III). These two regions are already integrated into 2 nation states. The challenge for China and all of Asia is to avoid conflicts breaking out between these 4 corners/quadrants, within the 2 divided corners (quadrants II and IV) and also to integrate the divided corners:

The North West: Russia, Central Asia and Middle-East (quadrant II)
The South East: ASEAN+2 and few other countries (quadrant IV)

I believe it is time for Japan and Indonesia to make some bold moves and take the lead, then other middle tier countries like South Korea, Vietnam and Philippines will follow. If the current crop of leadership in China do not understand their long term benefit from these regional moves, I believe the future generation leadership will.

 

[sEoulman556]

It is good to see some Indonesians active here, so we can finally have some POV from Indonesian perspective. I wish we could see some Japanese and "authentic" Korean voices as well.

As many posters may recall from previous discussions, I beg to differ that ASEAN should be wary of getting involved with these regional issues. In my opinion, both Japan and Indonesia are missing the opportunity to forge a closer tie using these conflicts as opportunities.

The spoiler in this region is the outside balancer, the US. The goal of all Asians should be to eventually oust the outsider including all its bases. For that to happen, we need balance and that balance can only be achieved if Japan and South Korea formally joins ASEAN (creating ASEAN+2) with a green signal from China, with the understanding that if and when this ASEAN+2 is a viable security guarantee for both Japan and South Korea, then US bases from both Japan and Korea will be asked to move out.

China is not in a position to create a unified ASEAN+3, that simply does not sound feasible. It will not be good for China, nor will it be good or acceptable for the rest. China has bigger fishes to fry and bigger problems to worry about. ASEAN+2, with China's blessing would be of greatest benefit for the peace, stability and development of the region.

For Asia, China is obviously becoming the leading nation. Asian landmass can be roughly cut into 4 regions with a cross. There is China sitting in Northeast (quadrant I) and India sitting in Southwest (quadrant III). These two regions are already integrated into 2 nation states. The challenge for China and all of Asia is to avoid conflicts breaking out between these 4 corners/quadrants, within the 2 divided corners (quadrants II and IV) and also to integrate the divided corners:


The North West: Russia, Central Asia and Middle-East (quadrant II)
The South East: ASEAN+2 and few other countries (quadrant IV)

I believe it is time for Japan and Indonesia to make some bold moves and take the lead, then other middle tier countries like South Korea, Vietnam and Philippines will follow. If the current crop of leadership in China do not understand their long term benefit from these regional moves, I believe the future generation leadership will.

Lol, South Korea isn't a middle tier country nor does it have aspirations to formally declare sides in the wider Asian pissing contest. Indonesia is a junior partner to South Korea's KF-X program, while South Korea sits on the G-20, spends $30 billion on its military, and has Gangnam Style. If China commits to a massive military offensive against Pinoys and/or Viets, then Koreans will consider joining the anti-China bloc. However, don't expect Koreans to jump in just because the Commie Sasquatch came out to play. Each country in this region is on its own in terms of its national defense.

 

[nufix]

Lol, South Korea isn't a middle tier country nor does it have aspirations to formally declare sides in the wider Asian pissing contest. Indonesia is a junior partner to South Korea's KF-X program, while South Korea sits on the G-20, spends $30 billion on its military, and has Gangnam Style. If China commits to a massive military offensive against Pinoys and/or Viets, then Koreans will consider joining the anti-China bloc. However, don't expect Koreans to jump in just because the Commie Sasquatch came out to play. Each country in this region is on its own in terms of its national defense.

G-20 major economies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[sEoulman556]

May I ask why you put this up? Unfortunately, I don't understand.

 

[nufix]

May I ask why you put this up? Unfortunately, I don't understand.

read the bolded key words in your previous statement

 

[sEoulman556]

read the bolded key words in your previous statement

And? So you're saying South Korea is a middle tier country. Well, I'm sorry if you were offended by the fact that I pointed out that Indonesia is a junior partner to the KFX program. Then what kind of "middle-tier country" embarks on a stealth fighter program that has 2 other partners, corners at least half of the global shipbuilding industry, and gets into a trade spat with the European Union. It wasn't my intention to offend anybodys' nationalities but the kalu_miah guy seemed to have the idea that South Korea will join the anti-China bloc just because all the other Asian countries are doing it like its the new fashion trend. My country likes making unilateral decisions that aren't based off what others decided.

 

[kalu_miah]

Choom Baekkeso Pangeup samnida.

Korea has been a Chinese vassal state since Kim Chun Chu of Silla allied with Tang 1400 years ago (I am watching this KBS K-drama series now). The brief intermission of Japanese occupation and US vassal status are temporary, unless Korea decides to work with ASEAN. A ASEAN+ allied with China is the only salvation route for both Korea and Japan:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180755-geopolitics-asean-region-15.html

 

[kalu_miah]

And? So you're saying South Korea is a middle tier country. Well, I'm sorry if you were offended by the fact that I pointed out that Indonesia is a junior partner to the KFX program. Then what kind of "middle-tier country" embarks on a stealth fighter program that has 2 other partners, corners at least half of the global shipbuilding industry, and gets into a trade spat with the European Union. It wasn't my intention to offend anybodys' nationalities but the kalu_miah guy seemed to have the idea that South Korea will join the anti-China bloc just because all the other Asian countries are doing it like its the new fashion trend. My country likes making unilateral decisions that aren't based off what others decided.

This is not an anti-China bloc, please read the details of this bloc here:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180755-geopolitics-asean-region-15.html

 

[Genesis]

Wow this is like austro Prussian war more and more. Us is France, China Japan Prussia Austria and the rest city statez. And Saxony. South Korea is Italy looking to get something from Austria and reunify.

Now whoever wins this battle will decide who will lead Asian and truly enter the global play ground as one of the big kids.

Looking at this as long as China don't go insane and attack tokyo and maybe switch to democracy and clean up human rights to a degree the us most likely won,t get involved.

Let see if the Chinese leaders can match the room Moltke bismark trio.

 

[nufix]

And? So you're saying South Korea is a middle tier country. Well, I'm sorry if you were offended by the fact that I pointed out that Indonesia is a junior partner to the KFX program. Then what kind of "middle-tier country" embarks on a stealth fighter program that has 2 other partners, corners at least half of the global shipbuilding industry, and gets into a trade spat with the European Union. It wasn't my intention to offend anybodys' nationalities but the kalu_miah guy seemed to have the idea that South Korea will join the anti-China bloc just because all the other Asian countries are doing it like its the new fashion trend. My country likes making unilateral decisions that aren't based off what others decided.

relax, I am not pointing out that SK is a middle tier-er nor am I offended by the fact that Indonesia is a junior partner (although Indonesia is not as junior as you think in Aviation industry). All I was saying is the use of the word of "while SK sits on the G20" to juniorize Indonesia is just unsuitable because either Indonesia or S. Korea happen to be sitting on the same council of world leading Asian nations, it would be different if you juniorized Indonesia technologically in overall comparison because I tip my hat to SK's advances in technology and industry

 

[sEoulman556]

relax, I am not pointing out that SK is a middle tier-er nor am I offended by the fact that Indonesia is a junior partner (although Indonesia is not as junior as you think in Aviation industry). All I was saying is the use of the word of "while SK sits on the G20" to juniorize Indonesia is just unsuitable because either Indonesia or S. Korea happen to be sitting on the same council of world leading Asian nations, it would be different if you juniorized Indonesia technologically in overall comparison because I tip my hat to SK's advances in technology and industry

You're absolutely right. I'm unaware of the specific details that Indonesia specializes in its own aviation industry. And even without the Indonesian aviation industry, Indonesia is a regional player already with its gigantic population and its notorious Kopassus military branch. The whole point of my argument was that the ROK sees itself as unhinged from ASEAN politics unless China backs up their **** talk with a PLAN offensive into the country that they think offended them. Its going to be a good day once Indonesia and South Korea get their combat models of the KFX. The neighbors that border our respective countries will have to think twice before they let their diplomats talk **** to our countries.

 

[nufix]

You're absolutely right. I'm unaware of the specific details that Indonesia specializes in its own aviation industry. And even without the Indonesian aviation industry, Indonesia is a regional player already with its gigantic population and its notorious Kopassus military branch. The whole point of my argument was that the ROK sees itself as unhinged from ASEAN politics unless China backs up their **** talk with a PLAN offensive into the country that they think offended them. Its going to be a good day once Indonesia and South Korea get their combat models of the KFX. The neighbors that border our respective countries will have to think twice before they let their diplomats talk **** to our countries.

Yes, Indonesia has different specialization in aviation industry, Indonesia projected its aviation industry in passenger, transport, and surveillance aircraft, KFX would be the first involvement of Indonesian aviation expertises in making jet fighter and with the assistance of Korean expertise, I am sure that they are in the right hands.

Yes indeed, with the KFX project finished, both nations will be able to have a literally infinite production of jet fighters, and when it comes to war, there will be no such thing as mercy to the enemies just because we are short of fighters. SK along with other leading Asian countries can work together to balance the might of bigger player so that the power within greater East Asia is not centralized that will create an imbalance.

 

[ViXuyen]

Lol, South Korea isn't a middle tier country nor does it have aspirations to formally declare sides in the wider Asian pissing contest. Indonesia is a junior partner to South Korea's KF-X program, while South Korea sits on the G-20, spends $30 billion on its military, and has Gangnam Style.

Korea is not even considered as a middle tier country. Middle tier countries are Germany, France, UK, Japan, Italy. Korea's industrial manufacturing capabilities are not even close to the listed countries that I mention. Gangnam style is just a cheap product that can't even be compared to something like Italy produces such as Ferrari; I seriously don't know if you're being serious or joking when you mention Gangnam style

As for aerospace industry, Indonesia is way ahead of Korea. The best thing about Korea is just a licenced production of the F-16 that Korea later called K-something.