Arrested former MNA was carrying Baitullah's letter for ex-ISI General

[yarmouk]

The great point to celebrate is that is that there are people like Lt Gen Hamid Gul who are conscientious objectors to what they see as wrong, while on the indian side there are none. Perhaps it has got to do with faith? What to expect from Gow Jal drinkers?

 

[blain2]

Former ISI DG Hamid Gul most likely.

Glad the MNA was arrested, and I hope he is tried for treason and given as harsh a punishment as possible to send a message.

Actually it could also be Lt Gen Javed Nasir.

 

[moha199]

To start with, Gen Akhtar Abdur Rahman & Lt Gen Javed Nasir. Both helped Mujahidin in Afghanistan with whatever they could. It was after Nasir's tenure that Taliban took the form of what it is today, thanks to Nasir.

After that, General Mahmud Ahmed has always resisted US presence in Afghanistan & many in US believed that he was a tacit supporter for Taliban. In fact he was retired prematurely by then Pakistan government due to his image of a Taliban apologist.

Then comes Nadeem Taj. Another one who treaded almost the same path as that of Ahmed. And always accused by the US as a 'double dealer' when it came to militants.

And of course, the great Hamid Gul. So count the number yourself. Some of the above may be dead now & the letter may not be intended for them. But as you asked me, here is the list of Taliban apologist ex-ISI chiefs.

Yo dude my man either iam high or you guys don't get it, Let me pose a question on you, What indian RAW does in afganistan? Why does it support the government which is not even stonge or supported by even afganis? let me help you with answer too, because karzai gov is pro indian and it is the duty of RAW to project indian agenda and secure national intreasts. Same was done by all these people that you have mentioned in 90's. Talibans were pro Pakistan saudia had accepted them, they were visiting USA for the gas pipe line, Do some resurch on this buddy boy, What is all this fuzz about, Look we pakistan are not dumb who won't understand that what are you guys trying to do here. The reason we stay quit is because we want you guys to learn too from USA, India will be FBAR, You will cry on this forum crying after 5 years mark my words and time, India is not Pakistan who has good connections with Middle east, which could be used to work with USA, You guys will be left around like condoms just wait, there is a saying that a good person is a good observer.... Ever since India is siding towards USA, India is get ready to confront someone, USA's ultimate goal is to get two old civalization to confront for his agenda,,,, wait and watch but this time loosers will be right next door

 

[wtf]

Yo dude my man either iam high or you guys don't get it, Let me pose a question on you, What indian RAW does in afganistan?

They wouldn't announce anything publicly, but I assume the usual. spying, diplomatic cover, helping BRO build roads, organizing meetings, analyzing data etc.

Why does it support the government which is not even stonge or supported by even afganis? let me help you with answer too, because karzai gov is pro indian and it is the duty of RAW to project indian agenda and secure national intreasts.

Yes, it is the duty of RAW to guard Indian interests. That's what they are hired and paid for. What's the surprise?

Same was done by all these people that you have mentioned in 90's. Talibans were pro Pakistan saudia had accepted them, they were visiting USA for the gas pipe line, Do some resurch on this buddy boy, What is all this fuzz about, Look we pakistan are not dumb who won't understand that what are you guys trying to do here.

Building roads and running guns are different things, in my humble opinion. The problem with the way ISI seems to have operated (if the current news is to be believed) is that they turned an anti-USSR movement into a religious one (border less) and then supplied it with guns.

I can't see India playing a religion card (does not have one). I can't see them giving them stingers either (does not have that either).

The reason we stay quit is because we want you guys to learn too from USA, India will be FBAR, You will cry on this forum crying after 5 years mark my words and time, India is not Pakistan who has good connections with Middle east, which could be used to work with USA, You guys will be left around like condoms just wait, there is a saying that a good person is a good observer.... Ever since India is siding towards USA, India is get ready to confront someone, USA's ultimate goal is to get two old civalization to confront for his agenda,,,, wait and watch but this time loosers will be right next door

India has some interests that align with that of USA. Some include democracy, halt of terrorism etc. India has been working on this for a while, but obviously with US echoing the same things, the world listens. If US stops supporting India , that would mean a loss of momentum but not a loss of beliefs/ideology.

Anyway what does all of this have to do with the letter from TTP to an ex-ISI agent ?

 

[moha199]

They wouldn't announce anything publicly, but I assume the usual. spying, diplomatic cover, helping BRO build roads, organizing meetings, analyzing data etc.


Yes, it is the duty of RAW to guard Indian interests. That's what they are hired and paid for. What's the surprise?



Building roads and running guns are different things, in my humble opinion. The problem with the way ISI seems to have operated (if the current news is to be believed) is that they turned an anti-USSR movement into a religious one (border less) and then supplied it with guns.

I can't see India playing a religion card (does not have one). I can't see them giving them stingers either (does not have that either).



India has some interests that align with that of USA. Some include democracy, halt of terrorism etc. India has been working on this for a while, but obviously with US echoing the same things, the world listens. If US stops supporting India , that would mean a loss of momentum but not a loss of beliefs/ideology.

Anyway what does all of this have to do with the letter from TTP to an ex-ISI agent ?

Well i will just say that what does it has to do with this topic, I wasn't involved with you i guess i was involved with "peacefulindian" I am not going to answer your comments here since it will take this thread into something else so for my views on your comments you might wanna search me and you will find my answer to every single comment of your that i have given to some other members under the topics Thanks again

 

[pakomar]

Hamid Gul? you sure ??? i thought it was for KC Verma

amazing to see how things change here...
a few days a go you guys were damn sure RAW is funding Baitullah..
and now?????

Not sure than Hamid Gul is behind it or not.
And also hamid Gul do n t have millions of dollars to gave aid to Taliban so your claims are false.
RAW element is there in tribal belt of Pakistan.

 

[PeacefulIndian]

Moha199 -

Yo dude my man either iam high or you guys don't get it, Let me pose a question on you, What indian RAW does in afganistan? Why does it support the government which is not even stonge or supported by even afganis? let me help you with answer too, because karzai gov is pro indian and it is the duty of RAW to project indian agenda and secure national intreasts.

Now how is this even remotely related to the conversation that we were having? We were talking about ex-ISI chiefs who were alleged as being Taliban apologists. And I did present you with the list as you asked me.

Talibans were pro Pakistan saudia had accepted them,

See that is the whole issue here. When Taliban were pro-Pakistan, you were gleefully celebrating their grandeurs in Afghanistan. It did not matter to you that they were terrorists for rest of the world. Now that they have started to take on you, all the friendship has gone out of the window. That is why we accuse Pakistan of using terrorism as its state policy.

what is all this fuzz about, Look we pakistan are not dumb who won't understand that what are you guys trying to do here. The reason we stay quit is because we want you guys to learn too from USA, India will be FBAR, You will cry on this forum crying after 5 years mark my words and time, India is not Pakistan who has good connections with Middle east, which could be used to work with USA,

Where did you learn astrology? And did that crystal ball of yours tell you everything?

You guys will be left around like condoms just wait,

Disgusting & disrespectful.

there is a saying that a good person is a good observer.... Ever since India is siding towards USA, India is get ready to confront someone, USA's ultimate goal is to get two old civalization to confront for his agenda,,,, wait and watch but this time loosers will be right next door

Again your crystal ball comes into picture here. Sorry, but 2.8 billion people will not fight each other just because US wants them to. So lets cut the crap & let the leaders decide what they want to do.

So I am still waiting for your response on that list of mine which I had presented to you. Do you or do you not believe that they were Taliban supporters?

 

[sergente rehan]

Moha199 -

See that is the whole issue here. When Taliban were pro-Pakistan, you were gleefully celebrating their grandeurs in Afghanistan. It did not matter to you that they were terrorists for rest of the world. Now that they have started to take on you, all the friendship has gone out of the window. That is why we accuse Pakistan of using terrorism as its state policy.

Yeah we supported them in the past when they were combacting against Soviet Union. So according to you we used terrorism as our state policy? then the US what they did in Afghanistan? they are the one who started this great project of freedom fighters, they are the one who gains all the benefits so they also used and still using terrorism! and at last what about your great (fake)democracy India? what are you doing in Kashmire? and who's supporting terrorism to destabilize Pakistan?....maybe you should think twice before blaming others!

 

[A1Kaid]

hamid gul has been only supportin afghan talibans and not TTP ****. infact he has been supportin military operation against these ppl.
so either its someone else or lik it said that this does not prove any links of general with baitullah.

That's correct, Hamid Gul's connection and relation was with the original Afghan Taliban led by Mullah Omar. Not this traitorous cancerous sickle cell anemia Baitullah Mehsud and his TTP, who is likely serving foreign interest and agents and that's how he probably receives a large share of his money. There is money trail evidence to suggest this.

Anyway, unless Hamid Gul is trying to exercise his weight on the TTP by warning them they should halt their terrorism and stop with their munafiq activities like fighting Muslim soldiers of Pakistani Army and Pakistani people then I doubt that was his letter.


The intelligence world is a dark and shady place, loyalties are hard to find and truth hard to confirm.

Though given Hamid Gul's previous activities, I doubt he would be in support of TTP, in fact I think he publicly bashed the TTP and even mentioned the TTP are serving foreign interest and agents.

 

[TalibanSwatter]

Hamid Gul's Interview with a Arab Daily - April 2009

[Asharq Al-Awsat] How did the Pakistani intelligence services help in establishing the Taliban movement? Is it paying the price at present?

[Gul] We helped the Taliban at first but we ended the training in 1989 and everything came to a stop. Most of the members of the Taliban movement were Afghan veterans that were trained during the Afghan war. We did not train anyone after 1989. So this training stopped about 20 years ago. Naturally, those that we trained have become older. So you give the wrong impression when you say that they are the same citizens that we trained.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] But is the support network that you established for the Afghan jihad active now in fighting against the Pakistani army?

[Gul] No, it is not the same network but the same spirit of jihad dominates the scene. There is no network. Only look at the scene in the tribal region. There is no network there. Each tribe is fighting in its region and no tribe crosses to the region of the other tribe. Each tribe has its command structure. At present, they have formed the “Tehrik-e Pakistan Taliban” (The Pakistani Taliban Movement) but it does not control all the Taliban groups in the tribal region.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] How and from where did the Pakistani Taliban Movement obtain their resources, such as arms and funds?

[Gul] The Americans are supplying them with arms and equipment. This is a unique characteristic of the tribal region. They are prepared to accept arms from any source. During the period of the Afghan jihad, the Russians gave them arms to fight against the Pakistani army. The citizens in these regions accepted money and arms from the Russians but they did not fight against the Pakistani army as the Russians wanted. Now there is a difference. They are accepting arms and money from the Americans and also fighting the Pakistani army. Why this difference? It is very simple: The Pakistani army is killing them and conducting major operations against them.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] In your opinion, what are the goals for which the Taliban movement is fighting in Afghanistan and its goals for fighting in Pakistan?

[Gul] There are two goals and they are clear and simple. The first goal is to fight for freedom and the second is to apply Shariaa. When they were in power in Afghanistan, they applied Shariaa there and made gains. It is also true that they made many mistakes; they were young and had no experience in management. But in general, the resulting government was good. They established a central authority in Afghanistan and women were given their inheritance rights for the first time in the history of Afghan society. There were excesses, such as forcing women in the Afghan towns to put on the Burqu and men to grow beards. But they established the rule of law and order in the country and provided protection to the Afghan citizens.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] On one hand you say that the Americans are supplying the Taliban with arms and on another hand you say that the Americans oppose the Taliban movement.

[Gul] Yes, they are doing all those things. They are executing their plans. They want the national Pakistani youths to fight against the Pakistani army and they have succeeded in this.




(Note: Gen(R) Hamid Gul was interviewed by Asharq Alawsat - London based Arab English Daily)

The excerpts above from an interview HG gave to an Arab Daily does'nt inspire a lot of confidence. - especially his second answer -"each tribe has its own command structure"..what the hell?

He seems to be giving the impression that it is the tribes fighting the PA and not the Taliban. He has conveniently omitted the fact that the TTP brutalized the actual tribal structure by killing hundreds of tribal elders. I find HG's answer to be quite disingenuous and misleading.

 

[TalibanSwatter]

The intelligence world is a dark and shady place, loyalties are hard to find and truth hard to confirm.

Though given Hamid Gul's previous activities, I doubt he would be in support of TTP, in fact I think he publicly bashed the TTP and even mentioned the TTP are serving foreign interest and agents.

I have my doubts about HG - he was very supportive of the Lal Masjid terrorists during the 2007 standoff and we know that the LM clerics are extremely supportive of BM and the TTP - latest incident of the ex-MNA with the letter being captured outside the LM cleric's house (along with the Swat TTP terrorist Fidaullah) simply reinforces what we already know about the criminal LM elements.

 

[batmannow]

another punching below from suadi arabia?

 

[ajpirzada]

The excerpts above from an interview HG gave to an Arab Daily does'nt inspire a lot of confidence. - especially his second answer -"each tribe has its own command structure"..what the hell?

He seems to be giving the impression that it is the tribes fighting the PA and not the Taliban. He has conveniently omitted the fact that the TTP brutalized the actual tribal structure by killing hundreds of tribal elders. I find HG's answer to be quite disingenuous and misleading.

wats wrong with that statement??
BM is a leader of mehsud militant group. for wazir and other tribes there are different leaders. together they have formed an alliance few months back. i dont see anything wrong with his analysis.

 

[ajpirzada]

I have my doubts about HG - he was very supportive of the Lal Masjid terrorists during the 2007 standoff and we know that the LM clerics are extremely supportive of BM and the TTP - latest incident of the ex-MNA with the letter being captured outside the LM cleric's house (along with the Swat TTP terrorist Fidaullah) simply reinforces what we already know about the criminal LM elements.

no. he was agianst the way thisn operation was carried out. and there is no doubt in that. that whole operation was a desaster. you could have easily cut off all the food and other supplies for few weeks. but our dear musharraf had his own ways of dealing with the situation. using chemical weapons etc.

 

[moha199]

Moha199 -


Now how is this even remotely related to the conversation that we were having? We were talking about ex-ISI chiefs who were alleged as being Taliban apologists. And I did present you with the list as you asked me.
Okey so iam not going to educate you over US cold war, do some reserch, ISI with the help of CIA, created these jihadi's, In 90's these jihadi's became Talibans and they were'nt doing no terrorism at all, It was the voice of people of Afganistan. again do some reserch but not from Indianpedia use some middle eastren or EU sources. Talibans did not commit no terrorism until after 911 when they told the world that they will give UBL to some middle eastren country, We had no talibans in Pakistan. Talibans means students and it was a youth movement in Afganistan


See that is the whole issue here. When Taliban were pro-Pakistan, you were gleefully celebrating their grandeurs in Afghanistan. It did not matter to you that they were terrorists for rest of the world. Now that they have started to take on you, all the friendship has gone out of the window. That is why we accuse Pakistan of using terrorism as its state policy.

They were not terrorist, name one incident which was occurred by talibans in the world, again do some reserch, Don't fall for propoganda from one country

Where did you learn astrology? And did that crystal ball of yours tell you everything?

I believe you belong from a yoga family my friend I don't believe in this stuff nor i take it as a joke so lets knock this off talk like man this is not India and we don't believe in this stuff of your astrology in Pakistan, Since you are talking to Pakistan which is me pose your comment in gentle manners and plainly instead of twisting answers that is my last comment on your this funny way of talking sorry and no hard feeling, I still respect you and i have no hard feeling for you

Disgusting & disrespectful.
Its not me but world is saying it and if you found it acword then iam sorry


Again your crystal ball comes into picture here. Sorry, but 2.8 billion people will not fight each other just because US wants them to. So lets cut the crap & let the leaders decide what they want to do.

same^^^

So I am still waiting for your response on that list of mine which I had presented to you. Do you or do you not believe that they were Taliban supporters?

They created these jihadi's so definatly they were same as X-US army personals were on jihadi's side "today's talibans"