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Arrested former MNA was carrying Baitullah's letter for ex-ISI General

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Hamid Gul's Interview with a Arab Daily - April 2009

[Asharq Al-Awsat] How did the Pakistani intelligence services help in establishing the Taliban movement? Is it paying the price at present?

[Gul] We helped the Taliban at first but we ended the training in 1989 and everything came to a stop. Most of the members of the Taliban movement were Afghan veterans that were trained during the Afghan war. We did not train anyone after 1989. So this training stopped about 20 years ago. Naturally, those that we trained have become older. So you give the wrong impression when you say that they are the same citizens that we trained.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] But is the support network that you established for the Afghan jihad active now in fighting against the Pakistani army?

[Gul] No, it is not the same network but the same spirit of jihad dominates the scene. There is no network. Only look at the scene in the tribal region. There is no network there. Each tribe is fighting in its region and no tribe crosses to the region of the other tribe. Each tribe has its command structure. At present, they have formed the “Tehrik-e Pakistan Taliban” (The Pakistani Taliban Movement) but it does not control all the Taliban groups in the tribal region.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] How and from where did the Pakistani Taliban Movement obtain their resources, such as arms and funds?

[Gul] The Americans are supplying them with arms and equipment. This is a unique characteristic of the tribal region. They are prepared to accept arms from any source. During the period of the Afghan jihad, the Russians gave them arms to fight against the Pakistani army. The citizens in these regions accepted money and arms from the Russians but they did not fight against the Pakistani army as the Russians wanted. Now there is a difference. They are accepting arms and money from the Americans and also fighting the Pakistani army. Why this difference? It is very simple: The Pakistani army is killing them and conducting major operations against them.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] Do you think that the Pakistani army generals are turning a blind eye to Al-Qaeda and the Taliban that cross the border to fight the international forces in Afghanistan?

[Gul] They are indeed crossing the border and entering Afghanistan, but this is not confined only to the residents of the tribal region. Let me tell you that citizens from Punjab are going and fighting in Afghanistan.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] Do you totally reject the idea that the Pakistani intelligence service has connections to the Taliban movement?

[Gul] No, let me tell you what kind of connections. I am a retired official but the al-Qaeda Afghan elements - Abdul Rasul Sayyaf, Karzai, and others - are against Pakistan but they are my friends. As far as I am concerned, they are old friends. So there are social relations. But it is not true at all to say that Pakistani intelligence officials are now supporting the Taliban movement and that this is their policy. This is incorrect.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] A report published in The New York Times has said that Jalaluddin Haqqani, a commander in the Taliban movement, is backed by the Pakistani intelligence services. Is this true?

[Gul] Jalalludin Haqqani is a personal friend of mine. When I sent my two sons to Afghanistan to wage jihad against the Soviet forces they fought alongside Jalalludin Haqqani’s men. He is a very, very good man. However, this does not mean that I am in a position now to give him support. His family has been in Pakistan for 30 years. There are 2.5 million Afghan refugees in Pakistan and they will continue to come and go from and to Afghanistan.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] You mentioned having social relations with Afghan leaders and Taliban commanders. Did you ever meet Ayman al-Zawahiri or Mullah Omar or Osama Bin Laden?

[Gul] Let me make one point clear: During the Afghan jihad the Pakistani intelligence services trained Afghans only; we did not train non-Afghans. We received people for training through Afghan sides; no one came to us directly. We made sure that they were all Afghans. The Arabs and other nationalities had their private camps in Afghanistan. Osama Bin Laden was never in contact with us. The first time I met Osama Bin Laden was in Sudan after I retired. We used to hear from the Americans that Osama Bin Laden is a great warrior but we had no direct contact with him or with Abdullah Azzam (Osama Bin Laden’s spiritual guide during the Afghan jihad; he is Palestinian). We did not train anyone except Afghans.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] In your opinion, what are the goals for which the Taliban movement is fighting in Afghanistan and its goals for fighting in Pakistan?

[Gul] There are two goals and they are clear and simple. The first goal is to fight for freedom and the second is to apply Shariaa. When they were in power in Afghanistan, they applied Shariaa there and made gains. It is also true that they made many mistakes; they were young and had no experience in management. But in general, the resulting government was good. They established a central authority in Afghanistan and women were given their inheritance rights for the first time in the history of Afghan society. There were excesses, such as forcing women in the Afghan towns to put on the Burqu and men to grow beards. But they established the rule of law and order in the country and provided protection to the Afghan citizens.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] On one hand you say that the Americans are supplying the Taliban with arms and on another hand you say that the Americans oppose the Taliban movement.

[Gul] Yes, they are doing all those things. They are executing their plans. They want the national Pakistani youths to fight against the Pakistani army and they have succeeded in this.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] Are there any contacts between the Pakistani intelligence services and the Taliban movement at present?

[Gul] No, there may be social relations as I just told you. Many Afghans come to meet me and I never ask them whether they are Taliban or which side they follow.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] But don’t you have official contacts with the Taliban?

[Gul] The Taliban surfaced as a movement three years ago after it became independent from the Pakistani intelligence services. It had a relationship with the Afghan mujahidin. The Taliban movement as an organization appeared later.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] Is it possible that some neighboring countries, like Iran and Pakistan, are helping them?
[Gul] This is not true; it is mere propaganda to turn Arab public opinion against Iran. Iran is involved in Khoram [place name as transliterated], close to the Afghan border, where there are sectarian clashes. But let me tell you that the Americans are involved in the sectarian clashes in Pakistan.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] Do you think that some Al-Qaeda leaders are now present in Iran?

[Gul] You know that after the Al-Qaeda dispersed in Afghanistan following the US attack there, many of them were arrested in Pakistan and some of them were killed. After that, they turned to Iran and the Iranian government did not arrest any of them. Some of them were put in prison but they were later released. This is very suspicious. The Americans did not say a word regarding this. Osama Bin Laden has three wives and about 18 children. Where did they all go? They all fled via Iran.


[Asharq Al-Awsat] How long do you think the Americans will remain in Afghanistan?

[Gul] If the Americans are wise, they will leave Afghanistan within one year. If they are not wise, Pakistan will witness a revolution as a result of the US presence in Afghanistan. They will be defeated in Afghanistan and they will have to leave Afghanistan in 2010 or 2011.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] When former President Pervez Musharraf was in power, we used to hear that his life was in danger because Al-Qaeda wants to kill him. Do you think that Al-Qaeda is threatening Zardari?

[Gul] This depends on Asif Ali Zardari’s behavior. So far, he has not done anything to provoke such a threat except the military operation in the tribal Bajaur regions under pressure from the Americans. But so far, Zardari has not reached the point where his life may be a target for Al-Qaeda.


(Note: Gen(R) Hamid Gul was interviewed by Asharq Alawsat - London based Arab English Daily)

lots of mis-statements - " we did not train the taliban after 1989" - the bloody taliban infact rose to prominence in the 1990s when the pakistani army helped them defeat the northern alliance.

He keeps accusing the US for backing the TTP yet in the same breath describes the goal of the TTP as an attempt "to spread sharia". So the US is interested in spreading shariaa? I suppose thats why the US drones bombed BM's hideouts including a funeral killing 60-70 TTP militants! Apparently, the US is for and against the TTP at the same time - the General's logic is mind boggling to say the least.

Interestingly, he mentions he met OBL for the first time in Sudan after he retired. I wonder when was the last time he met OBL and the topic of discussion. All in all, quite a revealing interview..:)
 
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General Hamid Gul has lost it. He is a complete idiot. This guy is a big Taliban supporter and the likes of him are really dangerous at this point in time. He is helping the Taliban propaganda machine all the time.

If you don't know, he says that both 9/11 and Mumbai were an inside job.
 
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The allegations against Gen. Nadeem Taj are speculative and unsubstantiated.

He was one of Musharraf's closest aides, and I find it unlikely that he would end up supporting policies counter to those Musharraf was pushing.

The others were involved in various capacities in the Afghan Jihad, Taliban regime in Afghanistan etc.

I am just quoting that US was accusing Gen Taj of being a double dealer. And they were also accusing that couple of his deputies were supporting Gen Taj in whatever he was doing. (Probably they were just obeying their boss.) I don't know on what grounds US was making the allegations or if any particular incidents transpired to support them.
 
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General Hamid Gul has lost it. He is a complete idiot. This guy is a big Taliban supporter and the likes of him are really dangerous at this point in time. He is helping the Taliban propaganda machine all the time.

If you don't know, he says that both 9/11 and Mumbai were an inside job.

We know those idiotic theories of his. I find a striking similarity between the thinking processes of Zaid Hamid & Hamid Gul.
 
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General Hamid Gul has lost it. He is a complete idiot. This guy is a big Taliban supporter and the likes of him are really dangerous at this point in time. He is helping the Taliban propaganda machine all the time.

If you don't know, he says that both 9/11 and Mumbai were an inside job.

Are you serious?? Did HG really say 9/11 is an inside job? He can't be that stupid - no way!
 
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This is elaboration of utmost disrespect on the part of members towards General hamid Gul, A man of his words and caliber must not be linked with such ambigious statements. he is a patriot fought wars for pakistan, put his life on line for the his countryman.

Statements from members without certain proof and evidences are just representative of thier attitudes towards their heros.

Remember he is X-ISI head, keeping such contacts must not met with surprise, even if he had links with them,i m sure they would be of positive sense, on the contrary Hamid gul also supportes military action, his love is Pakistan, ISI and Pakistan army. even if he had links he could not betray his love. wake up and smoke some cofee,

here is the latest intervies by General hamid Gul.

Think before u speak

Also remeber, General Shuja Pasha-current ISI cheif, when he took the office said in one of his statement,` Bathulah mahud is a patriotic pakistani!!! `
 
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General Hamid Gul has lost it. He is a complete idiot. This guy is a big Taliban supporter and the likes of him are really dangerous at this point in time. He is helping the Taliban propaganda machine all the time.

If you don't know, he says that both 9/11 and Mumbai were an inside job.

Mate dont offer cracks to dig a pathway. wake up. 9/11 and mumbai are far bigger game play than ur limited undertstandings. let thier be independent inquiry then we will come to sort of conclusion.

Imran khan is also Taliban supporter by the looks, so thats means certainly he is also traitor. the Answer is no, both have objection and their reasons are sensible. go and read some literature befor giving a point for others to build a pyramid upon. remeber lifiting a cloth from front or back makes u naked. dont jump to conclusion so to speak :disagree:, let the situation prevail.

i am not a tailban supporter plus i support the military action. but military action has to stop one day. do u have any plans after once americans have gone ?????????????, dont leave every thing to military, goverment has to find its feet and dictate the terms. Americans are not winning the war and neither they will, and once again they can leave us with troubled neighbourhood just like in Iraq n old Afghanistan.

Think, and once u wake up come back to forum with respectful words for our/your heroes. have some vision, think about strategy not just mere plans. hope u know the difference between planning and strategy

To most of disrespectful members:disagree::disagree::disagree:
 
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Surprisingly, no one is pin pointing Mullahs' clear role in the game. And running after the speculations and assumptions. Dear members! what do you think about MMA's former MNA role in these hard times. What should we do with these pious men. This should be the issue talked about.

Please see the title of the thread.
 
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if he says that 9/11 is some kind of an inside job then so wat. wat does that prove. these are his views. and many more ppl have similar views. not just talibans but 'moderate' muslims as well.
and lik i said earlier he does support afghan talibans but not TTP. wat is his theory about TTP; that is a different story.
 
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First of all we don't know the hole story behind all this so please avoid any comments against our ex ISI Generals. They deserve our respect bcz all they done is to serve our country. maybe they made some wrong decisions but who knows the entire story? you can't blame them on the base of some speculations....

Regarding Raw involment in Pakistan, that is the fact you simply can't deny it! do you really think that india will miss any chance to harm Pakistan? just go and read their statements...always crying to the world against Pakistan :tsk:

Our short terms new enemies are these terrorists so called TTP but our long term historical enemy is still and remain India!
 
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Claims ex-ISI chief provided financial assistance to criminal groups, involved in recruiting, training seminary students

Sunday, December 07, 2008
News Jang Group

ISLAMABAD: A secret US document, marked as releasable to the Government of Pakistan, has linked former Inter-Services Intelligence chief Lt-Gen (retd) Hamid Gul to the Taliban and al-Qaeda networks.

The two-page unsigned document had already been provided to the government, a knowledgeable source revealed to The News here on Saturday on condition of anonymity.

He said Gul had been charged in the paper with providing financial assistance to Kabul-based criminal groups and involvement in spotting, assessing, recruiting and training young men from seminaries.

The recruits are reportedly trained for attacks on the US-led coalition forces in Afghanistan. The ex-general, according to the source, has been accused of assisting the Taliban and al-Qaeda fighters in developing high-tech weapons.

In Washington, the State DepartmentÃ*s Deputy Spokesman Robert Wood had declined to comment on earlier reports that such a list had been sent to the UN. If we decide to send names, we will let the media know, he responded to a question on the subject on Thursday.

But the document seen by The News reveals the US had sent the name of Lt-Gen Hameed Gul to the Government of Pakistan.

Gul is one of the five erstwhile ISI officials whose names Washington has recommended to the UN Security Council for inclusion in the list of
international terrorists. When contacted by this scribe, Gul laughed off the charges which, according to him, are simply hilarious. He promised to come up with a para-wise response to the charges levelled against him on Sunday or Monday.

As per the paper, his name is spelled as Lieutenant General (retired) Hamid Gul, Hameed Gul and Haimid Gul.

His passport number, according to the document, is BA479001. Lieutenant General (retired) Hamid Gul was Director-General of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) from 1987-1989.

Hamid Gul has maintained extensive contacts over the years with Taliban and al-Qaeda operatives located in Pakistan, providing financial support and encouragement to these groups.

It claimed: In 2005, Hamid Gul provided general, over-arching guidance to the Taliban leadership on operational activities in Afghanistan.

[B]In 2008, Hamid Gul was in contact with the militant group Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) and its leadership, including Baitullah Mahsud, and provided the TTP leadership and operatives with guidance on the conduct of militant operations in the Afghanistan-Pakistan border region.[/B]Since at least 2005, the paper says, Hameed Gul has also provided financial and material support to the Taliban and has supported militant training camps in the Afghanistan-Pakistan region. As of late 2006, Gul allegedly directed a Taliban operative to head a militant training camp.

Hamid Gul was a regular contact for Sirajuddin Haqqani and regularly apprised Sirajuddin of Pakistan government activity in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA),the document continues.

Haqqani is a top Taliban commander, added to the UN 1,267 Committee consolidated list of individuals and entities associated with al-Qaeda or the Taliban on September 13, 2007. He was named specially designated globalterrorist pursuant to EO 13224 on March 11, 2008.

As of early 2007, Gul was involved in spotting, assessing, and recruiting young men from various Pakistani Madrassas for training in eventual attacks against US-led coalition forces in Afghanistan. The training consisted of techniques for laying mines, arson and suicide bombings. As of late 2006, Gul was also involved in the training camps.

In late 2006, Gul provided money to a Kabul-based criminal group for every International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) member that the group kidnapped and turned over to the Taliban.

In addition to these kidnapping-for-ransom activities, this criminal group sold weapons and explosives to the Taliban and acted as travel facilitators for Taliban members in Afghanistan.

Gul was on the board of directors of Umman Tameer-e-Nau (UTN), a
non-governmental organisation formed to help the Taliban and al-Qaeda networks develop high-tech weapons, the paper charges.

The UN 1,267 Committee added the UTN to its consolidated list of individuals and entities associated with al-Qaeda or the Taliban on December 24, 2001.
 
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To start with, Gen Akhtar Abdur Rahman & Lt Gen Javed Nasir. Both helped Mujahidin in Afghanistan with whatever they could. It was after Nasir's tenure that Taliban took the form of what it is today, thanks to Nasir.

After that, General Mahmud Ahmed has always resisted US presence in Afghanistan & many in US believed that he was a tacit supporter for Taliban. In fact he was retired prematurely by then Pakistan government due to his image of a Taliban apologist.

Then comes Nadeem Taj. Another one who treaded almost the same path as that of Ahmed. And always accused by the US as a 'double dealer' when it came to militants.

And of course, the great Hamid Gul. So count the number yourself. Some of the above may be dead now & the letter may not be intended for them. But as you asked me, here is the list of Taliban apologist ex-ISI chiefs.

Why don't you create a list of all those Indian Army officers who have been raping and killing Kashmiris?

How about Col. Prohit who caused the deaths of Hemant Karkare and other under the garb of 26/11?

While you are at it, don't forget to add the names of those coward Indian Army soldiers and officers who supported Narindra Modi in Gujrat riots!!

May be it was in Pakistan's interest in the past to support the Taliban but now it is not. All the names posted are from the past and not from the present.
 
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