Army scraps the world's largest assault rifle tender

[Joseph Goebbels]

Not really. I was pissed off after I got to know from Indian posters in PDF that Indian army is corrupt. According to them Indian army is very corrupt and refuses to buy DRDO because they love foreign maal. We all know DRDO makes the best weapons in the world.



You are right. Let us all unite together and disband the army. Everybody in PDF will be happy, the pakistanis and the DRDO fan boys.



Let the MCIWS come into production first.

why whole army should be held guilty for the crime of few top genreals responsible for floating all such requirements and tenders in last 30 years just bring them all to book and make an example of them

 

[Omega007]

If you are in PDF you must know Indian army is the most corrupt in the world as attested by Indian posters themselves.

Not the whole army,but a certain portion of it is indeed corrupt to the core.

What else did you expect?

India may have the 4th largest army but it is also one of the worlds worst equipped army. Just look at the sight of an infantry jawan in uniform.

1. Worn out boots

2. Obsolete INSAS rifle.

3. An ammo pouch containing 4 magazines (20 rounds each)

4. No armored vest

5. No armored helmet

6. No Night vision or thermal imaging system.

7. No modern communication set.

8. No combat webbing in uniform

9. No knee and elbow pads for protection.

Makes you wonder what the national companies and organisations responsible for defense production have been doing all these decades. Tell me if I am wrong in my points. Have you ever seen a regular infantry soldier equipped at par with regular US/NATO/Russian soldiers?

1.True to an extent.

2.Not true.

3.Totally false,each of the large ammo pouches,which are now standard can hold multiple magazines.And the 22 round magazine was requirement set by the Army itself,so stop whining you son of bitch!!

4.Again false!!The pictures of the ones involved in the COIN ops says the opposite thing you moron.

5.Again,dead wrong!!The Patka is the only head gear presently in service,that can provide level III protection against assault rifle bullets from 10 meters!!So check your facts before writing your garbage!!

6.Not totally true but their numbers are less than what's required.

7.Again false!!

8.Wrong again!!Just look at the ones in Kasmir or NE!!

9.True but they are being provided now.............albeit at a slow pace.

why whole army should be held guilty for the crime of few top genreals responsible for floating all such requirements and tenders in last 30 years just bring them all to book and make an example of them

Dude,ignore that cunt.You are new to this forum,so you do not yet know what kind of an condescending arse-hole he really is!!

 

[HariPrasad]

Army scraps the world's largest assault rifle tender : Mail Today, News - India Today

Well done. Use our own MCR. Order each with 50000 piece with some improvement.

 

[Indian Patriot]

why whole army should be held guilty for the crime of few top genreals responsible for floating all such requirements and tenders in last 30 years just bring them all to book and make an example of them

Because the whole army follows the order of the general.

Plus if the top generals are as corrupt as you and other DRDO fan boys allege then it means all top secret military information has already being sold by these corrupt generals to enemy countries.

So all DRDO fan boys should unite and disband indian army.

 

[anant_s]

If you are in PDF you must know Indian army is the most corrupt in the world as attested by Indian posters themselves.



What else did you expect?

India may have the 4th largest army but it is also one of the worlds worst equipped army. Just look at the sight of an infantry jawan in uniform.

1. Worn out boots

2. Obsolete INSAS rifle.

3. An ammo pouch containing 4 magazines (20 rounds each)

4. No armored vest

5. No armored helmet

6. No Night vision or thermal imaging system.

7. No modern communication set.

8. No combat webbing in uniform

9. No knee and elbow pads for protection.

Makes you wonder what the national companies and organisations responsible for defense production have been doing all these decades. Tell me if I am wrong in my points. Have you ever seen a regular infantry soldier equipped at par with regular US/NATO/Russian soldiers?

Well a lot of what you have mentioned is owing to improper planning and lack of vision. Over and above that are our tedious public procurement systems, that act as a force multiplier for the enemy forces.
However in this particular case, i'm ready to hazard a guess that government doesn't want to purchase off the shelf equipment and perhaps wants someone to form a joint venture.
If this weapon system is for future, the requirement will run into a very large number and obviously government doesn't want to remain dependent on a foreign supplier. So its like domestic production with ToT and perhaps the Indian part has to be someone other than OFB.

 

[Joseph Goebbels]

Because the whole army follows the order of the general.

Plus if the top generals are as corrupt as you and other DRDO fan boys allege then it means all top secret military information has already being sold by these corrupt generals to enemy countries.

So all DRDO fan boys should unite and disband indian army.

1.if army jawans refuses to obey the commands of there commanding officers then god save us ... is that what you want aree you really an indian ?

2.i dont see any DRDO fanboys here rather most indian members here seem to have a grudge against DRDO and its snail pace R&D record and most are against OFB for its garbage manufacturing quwaliti and ya they are right some rats in DRDO had sold many state secrets to many nations ... do you know DRDO guys are so gross that they showed the cars they use or their families use as research vehicels to get rembarsments ?

3.to get things right on track DRDO should be totally rewamped and OFB should be privatised

 

[Bang Galore]

So its back to square one now

The government should get the Indian private sector involved, especially Bharat Forge. Silly not to look at them when you have a company of that calibre available & their MD is on record as being interested in this project.

As for being back to square one, that was a bit inevitable. Just look at this bit:

"Another concern the Army had was cost. At over Rs 2 lakh a piece, each multi-caliber assault rifle with a conversion kit cost twice the price of a regular imported assault rifle and six times the cost of a Rs 35,000 OFB-made INSAS rifle"

 

[gowda]

Private sector or government sector both need R&D which our country really lacks add to it huge corruption unit this problems not solved out we will be back on square one

 

[anant_s]

"Another concern the Army had was cost. At over Rs 2 lakh a piece, each multi-caliber assault rifle with a conversion kit cost twice the price of a regular imported assault rifle and six times the cost of a Rs 35,000 OFB-made INSAS rifle"

Sir, do you have any information on how costing for these tenders is done?
Normally they put in some basic cost to arrive at tender cost (required for budgets also) and then when quotations arrive, there is a baseline data to compare with.
After the Rafale cost fiasco (if i may use the word), it appears there isn't any hard and fast method/rules coz we've heard too many times recently that owing to high cost, a tender wasn't pursued further. the point here is when you put in specifications and arrive at a cost, unless the cost of technically qualified L1 bidder is more than estimated cost by some arbitrarily defined number (say 10% above estimated), how does one say the item is costly?
Secondly, if the notion of being costly comes from overall absolute value of contract (irrespective of its variation with initial cost), how come such tendering process is given approval?

 

[Bang Galore]

Sir, do you have any information on how costing for these tenders is done?
Normally they put in some basic cost to arrive at tender cost (required for budgets also) and then when quotations arrive, there is a baseline data to compare with.
After the Rafale cost fiasco (if i may use the word), it appears there isn't any hard and fast method/rules coz we've heard too many times recently that owing to high cost, a tender wasn't pursued further. the point here is when you put in specifications and arrive at a cost, unless the cost of technically qualified L1 bidder is more than estimated cost by some arbitrarily defined number (say 10% above estimated), how does one say the item is costly?
Secondly, if the notion of being costly comes from overall absolute value of contract (irrespective of its variation with initial cost), how come such tendering process is given approval?

I really haven't the faintest idea of how these procurements are planned. Especially after the Rafale fiasco (and you are right to use that word) It seems like there is no idea of how much one wants to allocate to a particular purchase but end up in a situation where the purchase is called off because of unrealistic financial expectations. In this case, it seems that the army just got carried away with what they wanted, a product that none of the vendors had actually produced apart from prototypes. Fair then to ask what the logic behind the requirements was. If the idea was not to have separate rifles firing different calibers, surely the logic cannot be to have rifle with interchangeable barrels that would be double the cost of the imported rifle & quadruple the cost of the locally made one. What logic would support such a tender?

 

[Perpendicular]

May be MCIWS is just on the horizon, so no need for foreign maal.
Army's lack of planing for the future is going to be costly one if god forbid we r in a conflict. About time for a CDS to be appointed.
Indian army soldier currently looks like drop out of world war 2.

 

[Indian Patriot]

1.if army jawans refuses to obey the commands of there commanding officers then god save us ... is that what you want aree you really an indian ?

In a pakistani forum you call Indian army corrupt and you ask me if I am Indian?

2.i dont see any DRDO fanboys here rather most indian members here seem to have a grudge against DRDO and its snail pace R&D record and most are against OFB for its garbage manufacturing quwaliti and ya they are right some rats in DRDO had sold many state secrets to many nations ... do you know DRDO guys are so gross that they showed the cars they use or their families use as research vehicels to get rembarsments ?

3.to get things right on track DRDO should be totally rewamped and OFB should be privatised

Agreed.

 

[Zarvan]

 

[Indian Patriot]

However in this particular case, i'm ready to hazard a guess that government doesn't want to purchase off the shelf equipment and perhaps wants someone to form a joint venture.

That someone does not want to form a joint venture with Indian government owned ventures. It takes 10 years for them to say they don't need Rafale. Trials are done on a no-cost-no-commitment basis meaning foreign companies will be spending their money showing off their weapons without any guarantee they will be purchased. Business does not run like that.

The longer the govt. takes to make a decision the longer the common jawans face the brunt. Does the govt. care? Where is DRDO now?

If this weapon system is for future, the requirement will run into a very large number and obviously government doesn't want to remain dependent on a foreign supplier. So its like domestic production with ToT and perhaps the Indian part has to be someone other than OFB.

Critical technologies come after years of hard work and tonnes of money. Nobody will sell critical technology for peanuts. Transfer-of-technology is what those f***tards in DRDO want because they are too retarded to come up with technology of their own. But what if foreign countries refuse to sell critical technology. Indian soldiers remain ill-equipped like they are today?

If India has to be so dependent on foreign countries what is the purpose of DRDO? Why not scrap them altogether?

Sir, do you have any information on how costing for these tenders is done?
Normally they put in some basic cost to arrive at tender cost (required for budgets also) and then when quotations arrive, there is a baseline data to compare with.
After the Rafale cost fiasco (if i may use the word), it appears there isn't any hard and fast method/rules coz we've heard too many times recently that owing to high cost, a tender wasn't pursued further. the point here is when you put in specifications and arrive at a cost, unless the cost of technically qualified L1 bidder is more than estimated cost by some arbitrarily defined number (say 10% above estimated), how does one say the item is costly?
Secondly, if the notion of being costly comes from overall absolute value of contract (irrespective of its variation with initial cost), how come such tendering process is given approval?

On the Rafale deal there is a small thing.

The tender for MMRCA was floated in early to mid 2000s and the tender was cancelled after almost a decade. The price would obviously fluctuate. If India had made the decision - to buy or to scrap - within a year then the cost would not have sky rocketed so rapidly.

 

[C130]

so you want a rifle can switch on the fly from 7.62 to 5.56 why not just meet right in the middle

6.5 Grendel