Army rubbishes claims of LEJ links.

[RabzonKhan]

Rabzon, you look like Amitabh Bacchan.

Thanks, I hate to brag but lots of people say that to me.

 

[Safriz]

Here are some interesting facts.

Haq Nawaz Jhangvi was a pathetic sectarian terrorist.

In the following speech he says “Shia kaenat ka badtareen aor ghaleeztareen kafir hai”

This is the man military dictator Zai ul haq supported. This shows a clear link between Military-Mullah alliance and the sectarian terrorism we're facing today.

Sadly, the innocent people of Pakistan(civilian and security forces) are reaping what our establishment has sowed.

Senate body
Tariq Khosa, a former director-general of FIA, recalled how sectarian groups like the Sipah-i-Sahaba received official patronage at the highest level in the 1980s.
Reminiscing about his early days in police force, he said when he was an ASP in Jhang district, he apprehended Haq Nawaz Jhangvi, the founder of the SSP, for delivering a provocative speech. But the then president Ziaul Haq himself intervened for his release, Mr Khosa added.
Similarly, in another incident he had hauled up a cache of weapons, but was asked to release that on directives from none other than Gen Zia.

Well if you listen to some speaches of shia clerics of that time..they had said similar hate filled words against sunnis...
But none asked their followers to go kill the other..
If Zia had allowed Jhangvi arrest on the basis of his speaches...same had applied to shia clerics and locking up so many renowned clerics from both sides had wreaked havok.
Who ever killed jahanvi....presumably shia militants...are to blame for escalating the issue.
Jhangvi had problem with shia because many of them disrespest 'sahaba'...and do so openly...
I for myself knew a shia family,who celebrated 'birthday' of Hazarat Ali,by making a cake with a figurine on top...They had shoa guests invited..named the figurine 'Umer' and chopped its head and distributed it.

So there you go...stupidity is on both sides...not only on sunni side.

Zia's policy was to keep the fight intellectual,and he succeeded in that.
We used to hear sunni clerics shouting anti shia slogans from our mosque's loud speakers every friday,but no violence against local shia population.
Later when the arresting,and throwing in the jails started,violence followed.

 

[Hyperion]

The ISPR statement isn't entirely correct. Yes, it may no longer have any connections with the LeJ, however, they forgot to mention that they created it, aided them and such culture to flourish indirectly in the past.

The blame indeed falls in their laps, there is no need to lie and further prolong the agony. It's way better to be open and own up to history, instead of penning another false account.

Pak Army will never encourage these kind of elements. We have a substanital presence of Shia officers and Jawans and this kind of Shia-sunni divide is totally unacceptable to our Armed Forces.

 

[Hyperion]

This is what happens when chain of command and communications degrade, and when certain agencies are given carte blanche to operate at their own discretion.

What I fail to understand is how most of us so easily latch onto the assertions that the Army is supporting Sectarianism or the ISI is, as if either of them exist in a bubble with no Shia presence in the Army whatsoever !

How does an Army Officer belonging to the Shia Sect of Islam, knowing full well, that the Army as a whole is supporting LeJ, the SSP or others, doesn't get the slightest discomfort from that knowledge ? How does that feeling never bring about, forget a schism within the army, but even a half arsed shoot out, when extrapolated to the thousands of Shias, Barelvis, Ismailis & others who inhabit the Pakistan Army ?

How does the Army manage to avoid all of that ? How do the Paramilitary Forces, our other Intelligence Agencies & the rest of our Civil Security Apparatus manage to do that ?

Are they all secretly Wahabis/Deobandis or whatever the latest scapegoat is ? Are they all sold ? Or are these things already happening but somehow an Army that is often accused of being, Non-Professional & Incapable of Protecting the Country, suddenly becomes ever so capable that they're able to cover their tracks so well that none of us get a whiff of the In-Fighting going on ?

I wonder if we ever lay our thoughts bare & reason them out before blabbering rhetoric ?

 

[RabzonKhan]

Well if you listen to some speaches of shia clerics of that time..they had said similar hate filled words against sunnis...
But none asked their followers to go kill the other..
If Zia had allowed Jhangvi arrest on the basis of his speaches...same had applied to shia clerics and locking up so many renowned clerics from both sides had wreaked havok.
Who ever killed jahanvi....presumably shia militants...are to blame for escalating the issue.
Jhangvi had problem with shia because many of them disrespest 'sahaba'...and do so openly...
I for myself knew a shia family,who celebrated 'birthday' of Hazarat Ali,by making a cake with a figurine on top...They had shoa guests invited..named the figurine 'Umer' and chopped its head and distributed it.

So there you go...stupidity is on both sides...not only on sunni side.

Zia's policy was to keep the fight intellectual,and he succeeded in that.
We used to hear sunni clerics shouting anti shia slogans from our mosque's loud speakers every friday,but no violence against local shia population.
Later when the arresting,and throwing in the jails started,violence followed.

Safriz, so in your opinion labeling the entire community “kaenat ka badtareen aor ghaleeztareen kafir hai” is intellectual debate, sorry, that is not intellectual debate but a clear case of hate speech.

And what a about this “Similarly, in another incident he had hauled up a cache of weapons, but was asked to release that on directives from none other than Gen Zia”, any justification?

Now, having said that, I agree with you both sides were wrong, but why should the state support one evil over the other?

 

[niaz]

What I fail to understand is how most of us so easily latch onto the assertions that the Army is supporting Sectarianism or the ISI is, as if either of them exist in a bubble with no Shia presence in the Army whatsoever !

How does an Army Officer belonging to the Shia Sect of Islam, knowing full well, that the Army as a whole is supporting LeJ, the SSP or others, doesn't get the slightest discomfort from that knowledge ? How does that feeling never bring about, forget a schism within the army, but even a half arsed shoot out, when extrapolated to the thousands of Shias, Barelvis, Ismailis & others who inhabit the Pakistan Army ?

How does the Army manage to avoid all of that ? How do the Paramilitary Forces, our other Intelligence Agencies & the rest of our Civil Security Apparatus manage to do that ?

Are they all secretly Wahabis/Deobandis or whatever the latest scapegoat is ? Are they all sold ? Or are these things already happening but somehow an Army that is often accused of being, Non-Professional & Incapable of Protecting the Country, suddenly becomes ever so capable that they're able to cover their tracks so well that none of us get a whiff of the In-Fighting going on ?

I wonder if we ever lay our thoughts bare & reason them out before blabbering rhetoric ?

Your question is very pertinent indeed; why would a Shia, knowing that PA support sectarianism would join the Army in the first place? Until 1971 there was certainly no sectarianism in the army. Ayub Khan was secular, Musa Khan as well as Yahya Khan were Shia. Doubtless, there are still a lot of Shia officers & jawans in the Pak Army. But since the Zia era, you would find very few Shia in the ISI & secret services. Also most of the Army, just like most of Pakistanis, do not support sectarianism.

Ever since the bigot Zia ul Haq became COAS, militancy has been creeping in the Pakistan society. Youngman are part of the society before they become officers and jawans of the PA and the association with militancy probably continues. I can name Gen Hamid Gul former chief of ISI as creator of Sepah Sehaba and sectarianism in Pakistan.

Since ISI make use of the same people in Kashmir, it is understandable that quite a few shut their eyes to LEJ & TTP sectarian activities. Sharif Bro’s who are negotiating seat adjustment with LEJ are product of the Zia regime. Lal Masjid is located very near ISI Head Qtrs. in Islamabad. Do you honestly believe that ISI was totally unaware that Aziz brothers were stockpiling fire arms in the mosque?

If they were indeed unaware then ISI is the most incompetent intelligence service in the world which it is not. On the other hand if they were aware but let it go on, proves beyond doubt at least a section of ISI supports militancy & sectarian parties.

IMO US had justifiably kept Pak Army in the dark about their Osama operation. I for one find it impossible to believe that everyone in ISI was totally unaware of OBL whereabouts. ISI appears to
be so secretive that even the right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing.

 

[Safriz]

Safriz, so in your opinion labeling the entire community “kaenat ka badtareen aor ghaleeztareen kafir hai” is intellectual debate, sorry, that is not intellectual debate but a clear case of hate speech.

And what a about this “Similarly, in another incident he had hauled up a cache of weapons, but was asked to release that on directives from none other than Gen Zia”, any justification?

Now, having said that, I agree with you both sides were wrong, but why should the state support one evil over the other?

Yes..he had tons of death threats,but too committed to his cause..whatever it was.
The weapons were for his guards,as his life was always at risk.

Arresting him had to follow with arresting the oppodition who issued death threats against him.
Hate was on both sides.
You cant look at one side of the story and ignore the other.

If he wasnt murdered,no militancy had occured and shia were involved in his murder...
Being a minority does not mean you are innocent by default...
Both sides were to blame..
The Quote you are writing over and over again were against those who use abusive langiage agsinst 'sahaba'..
This form of intimidation still continued...many shia clerics still abuse sahaba openly.

 

[RabzonKhan]

Yes..he had tons of death threats,but too committed to his cause..whatever it was.
The weapons were for his guards,as his life was always at risk.

Arresting him had to follow with arresting the oppodition who issued death threats against him.
Hate was on both sides.
You cant look at one side of the story and ignore the other.

If he wasnt murdered,no militancy had occured and shia were involved in his murder...
Being a minority does not mean you are innocent by default...
Both sides were to blame..
The Quote you are writing over and over again were against those who use abusive langiage agsinst 'sahaba'..
This form of intimidation still continued...many shia clerics still abuse sahaba openly.

And that is the crux of the matter, if these hate spreading bigots (Shia and Sunni) were arrested and thrown in jail for disturbing the peace and harmony in the society that would have sent a clear message to other troublemakers that the state of Pakistan will not tolerate sectarian hatred.

So maybe we would not be in a rut, we find ourselves today.

Sorry I have to run now.

 

[jaibi]

Whoever created them, whoever is supporting them doesn't matter. Destroy them we'll know from their autopsies who's cash they've been hoarding!

 

[Hyperion]

@muse @niaz @Aeronaut @Irfan Baloch

And you guys say that we don't have brainwashed people. Here you go, for your consumption:

Yes..he had tons of death threats,but too committed to his cause..whatever it was.
The weapons were for his guards,as his life was always at risk.

Arresting him had to follow with arresting the oppodition who issued death threats against him.
Hate was on both sides.
You cant look at one side of the story and ignore the other.

If he wasnt murdered,no militancy had occured and shia were involved in his murder...
Being a minority does not mean you are innocent by default...
Both sides were to blame..
The Quote you are writing over and over again were against those who use abusive langiage agsinst 'sahaba'..
This form of intimidation still continued...many shia clerics still abuse sahaba openly.

P.S. We are seriously screwed. I'd leave the obituary for you people to pen.


P.P.S. @Armstrong kidher ho bey?

 

[Hyperion]

Mate, be careful for what you wish for. You may not know and many of your acquaintances may get purged!

Whoever created them, whoever is supporting them doesn't matter. Destroy them we'll know from their autopsies who's cash they've been hoarding!

 

[jaibi]

If my acquaintances are supporting the genocide then so be it.

 

[Safriz]

@muse @niaz @Aeronaut @Irfan Baloch

And you guys say that we don't have brainwashed people. Here you go, for your consumption:




P.S. We are seriously screwed. I'd leave the obituary for you people to pen.


P.P.S. @Armstrong kidher ho bey?

You cannot make people shut up by speaking louder than them..To address any problem you do need to understand the root cause.
the root cause of the rise of "sipahe sahaba" was a certain sect among shia who openly use abusive words against sahaba..and that is a fact.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

You cannot make people shut up by speaking louder than them..To address any problem you do need to understand the root cause.
the root cause of the rise of "sipahe sahaba" was a certain sect among shia who openly use abusive words against sahaba..and that is a fact.

I guess you are pointing at a sect that claims to be shais ,the nosehris are despised by shia and actually kicked out from majalis for that reason.
I only found out about them when I watched a video where a shia cleric is warning Muslims how the hatred among shia sunni is being cultivated by certain groups


Sahabah R.A honour is an excuse
because SSP and LeJ have even murdered little children too (who cant even talk yet or just learning to speak let alone insult someone) its the hate of the kharjites and taqfiris LeJ have inherited from their sick forefathers who killed sahabah r.a and ahl baith ra

the terror of LeJ and SSP can never be justified if we go by this example then all nonMuslims by default are committing blasphemy and should be killed Al Qaeda which is the sister LeJ organisation is already doing that.


on topic

Army needs more than an ISPR press release to prove that it is not sympathetic to these sectarian pests and should treat them as a danger to the state security and deal with them with same commitment like it has with the BLA or TTP terrorists

 

[Alpha1]

Pic on my latest visit to jhang!

.
Unfortunately the founder of lashkar-e-jhangvi [HAQ NAWAZ] is called a Shaheed in Jhang city!