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Army mulls legal action over BBC report

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au contraire...i'd say that we are slowly but steadily making progress much more than the mighty NATO -
We're drifting.

I repeat: if the Army believed the BBC report was false it would be pursuing the Pakistanis portrayed in the report, not the BBC. Just as the Army pursued the doctor accused of helping the U.S. nab OBL but not the news organizations who reported this (which endangered vaccination programs, thus threatening the lives of Pakistani citizens).

I can think of no defense of the P.A.'s actions - especially those of its spokesman, who made everything so clear. The P.A. would have been better off remaining silent.

Do you still think "the army doesnt need to consult with me"?
 
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This is a tricky issue. If PA thinks they have enough evidence to prove this entire thing is a frame up they should come forward. One, for their own people and second to change the world opinion on PA and ISI. However, if counter evidence is provided that the army cannot refute..their position would quickly change from: That was just a media documentary to "Oh Oh!!!"
If there actually was any 'counter evidence', the BBC would have already provided it/aired it.
 
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If the Army truly thought this BBC report was faked they'd be seeking and condemning the Pakistanis who made false statements about ISI support rather than the BBC reporters who recorded them.
Weren't these Afghan Taliban commanders, or some of them at least?

And how do we know they weren't in fact all Afghan's or TTP terrorists or US/CIA/Afghan trained mercenaries bombing and killing Pakistani soldiers and civilians, and now making false allegations in return for US/CIA/Afghan money?

---------- Post added at 05:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:25 PM ----------

Yes, the freedom of action of Pakistan's military leaders is being increasingly constrained. From here on if the P.A. continues to deny insurgent support the insurgents will be collecting evidence of just that, if only to protect themselves. Soon, even without Washington's foresightedness and good advice, the military leadership is going to have to make a choice: alienate Washington, alienate their puppets, or resign.
That is only a potential outcome on your end, based on your perceptions - from this end, given that the ISI/PA has not provided resources or training to the Taliban and associated groups since the US invasion of Afghanistan, the 'outcome', of 'alienating Pakistani puppets' will not come about since the PA/ISI will not be significantly changing policy since 2001.
 
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Apparently not everyone in the Pakistani government agrees with the Army:

BBC spokeswoman Helen Deller said the documentary was made in line with BBC editorial guidelines and did "not attempt to take sides".

"Secret Pakistan was made in accordance with the BBC's editorial guidelines, information we gained was checked with multiple sources and the programme strove to be fair and accurate."

"The Pakistani position and official response to the allegations made not only by Western officials and Taliban fighters but also Pakistani representatives is carried throughout by several different voices."
link

A very murky and suggestive statement.
 
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Weren't these Afghan Taliban commanders, or some of them...how do we know they weren't in fact all Afghan's or TTP...now making false allegations in return for US/CIA/Afghan money?
You're reaching. You know that any CIA agent or U.S. official is worth more to these guys as a prisoner to be sold rather than as a paymaster.[/quote]

That is only a potential outcome on your end, based on your perceptions -
My perceptions, yes, but you haven't come up with any dissent to them.

...given that the ISI/PA has not provided resources or training to the Taliban and associated groups since the US invasion
I see you've dropped denying that the ISI provided the Taliban with shelter. That too is forbidden under the post-9/11 UN resolutions (especially 1373). If your nation isn't to pay the price at least for that, it will have to put blame on individuals within the military.
 
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Which is known, but it remains unsubstantiated opinion.
The BBC is known for "unsubstantiated opinions" especially regarding Israel. Usually we Zionists fact-check the BBC to show such "facts" have no substance. This is something neither the P.A. nor the posters here are daring to do.

(Shabbat comes, gotta go -)
 
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You're reaching. You know that any CIA agent or U.S. official is worth more to these guys as a prisoner to be sold rather than as a paymaster.
Not really - they may prefer to live in relative financial security rather than being hounded on both sides of the border.

My perceptions, yes, but you haven't come up with any dissent to them.
I have provided dissent - I pointed out to you that Pakistani policy towards these groups has not and likely will not change significantly from what it has been, and that Pakistan has not been providing resources and training to these groups, so the 'end of such support' would not make any difference, since it did not exist to begin with,
I see you've dropped denying that the ISI provided the Taliban with shelter. That too is forbidden under the post-9/11 UN resolutions (especially 1373). If your nation isn't to pay the price at least for that, it will have to put blame on individuals within the military.
Deliberately providing 'Shelter' would amount to 'providing resources', so no, I have not dropped denying that Pakistan is providing the Taliban with support any more than the ISAF/Afghans were providing support to TTP terrorists sheltering in Eastern Afghanistan and Baluch terrorists such as Bugti being sheltered in Kabul and assisted in traveling to Switzerland to obtain asylum.

---------- Post added at 05:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:44 PM ----------

The BBC is known for "unsubstantiated opinions" especially regarding Israel. Usually we Zionists fact-check the BBC to show such "facts" have no substance. This is something neither the P.A. nor the posters here are daring to do.

(Shabbat comes, gotta go -)
So where is the 'substantiation' of these BBC allegations?

Satellite images of training camps in Pakistan?

Videos of serving 'General's strutting around these training camps?
 
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Small correction : No Taliban leader remotely close to the main leadership till date has been captured by Pakistan.

But you managed to arrest one of the Taliban leaders who was interested in speaking to Government of Afghanistan hopefully for peace. Well you wont like that will you ?
well you contadicted yourself already,

fisrt you say we didnt capture any top taliban leader and then you say we captured him ourselves?

he is Mullah Brader and if he really wanted to speak to the Afghan goverment then he sould have done it in Afghanistan no? not from karachi and fall in our pocket, we handed him over to Americans
they can talk to him as much they want, whats stopping them? they can talk and let him go as a goodwill no?
 
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their narrative is never given.....but it is known by those who dig deeper into the matter and have the deceny and moral maturity to listen to their side --instead of towing the over-used rhetoric that is blibber-blabbered in the media time to time




Your comment reminds me of the book "in the line of fire " By Gen Musharraf, he says that in these current times, people don’t have the time and really cant be asked to pick up Quran and its translation and try to understand the meaning and its interpretation, what they really need to form an opinion is to watch the short videos containing the blood chilling scenes of the Muslim terrorists from Al Qaeda and its clone organisations. They will quickly form an opinion based on the ranting and rhetoric of some Islamists rather than what a peaceful Muslim is saying (and that’s boring and doesn’t sell well anyway).

the voice of reason and decency are the first victims when emotions are high and the media ceases this opportunity and fans this sentiment with airing more sensational stories Pakistani state here has failed badly on this front although its fighting for the past ten years and despite many gains against the terrorists and heavy loss losses in terms of human and material it cant has failed to show what it has achieved and lost and its story has been told by the 3rd parties.

I mean, you see its top civilian and military leadership being targeted and assassinated including generals along with their families, their helicopters shot at their conveys being attacked their children being killed, but still same army is blamed for colluding with Taliban? both BLA and TTP openly give interviews and make videos from Afghanistan and NATO and Afghanistan are not told clearly in the same terms to track and stop them the way Pakistan is told from almost every level on their side.


Our international audience has very select memory and I cant blame them, these times have seen some very rapid changes in the geopolitical nature of the world so its hard to keep track on things. Instead of being reactive to what someone else is saying and what someone tomorrow will say, Pakistan state needs to open an effective and dedicated media / information section regarding its WoT and its issues and concerns regarding NATO and Afghanistan’s indifference towards its enemies like BLA and TTP.

Also, while NATO is trying to work on a peaceful solution and seeking dialog with Taliban, its demanding us to go after them and when we do that we are blamed for stalling the peace process. Damned if we do, damned if we don’t. that’s there we need some good articulate speakers who don’t just waste themselves on blaming our past policies because there are countless people whoa re doing that without any proposed solution, but we need people who show what we have done so far and how all these accusations are baseless and ludicrous.

Taliban execute almost one person everyday on suspicion of working for the ISI, its own over 300 agents have lost lives to these same groups even our retired col Imam was executed in front of the camera who was blamed by Taliban for working for the Americans and Pakistan army, now the world sees that but is impassive because there is no one telling from our side that how BBC would blame us from supporting Taliban who are executing our own officers? If such allegations are true then it means that we are so dumb that we are helping our own killers yet we are so conniving double crossers that we are betraying our partners who are supporting our war effort. Which means that Americans are the dumbest of the lot who are continuously being (allegedly ) double crossed by ISI/ PA which in tern is the constant target of Taliban.

The 2nd May attack managed to dig out the biggest antagonist of WoT out of the rat hole but todate the Americans have not come up with any evidence of collusion of Pak Army or the state except some assumptions of possible lower to middle level collusion over 8 years which is also ill-informed, anyone who knows how the military works knows it well that no posting is more than few 2 or 3 years and the commissioned and non-commissioned officers are constantly rotated in places and positions so any such collusion is virtually impossible to sustain or keep secret. Again, there is no one from Pakistan to express this eloquently and clearly to the world and we all have to relay on the 3rd parties that after a while do air one program or report that shows Pakistan positively but that’s not enough
 
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................................ there is no one from Pakistan to express this eloquently and clearly to the world and we all have to relay on the 3rd parties that after a while do air one program or report that shows Pakistan positively but that’s not enough

That is exactly what PDF should become!
 
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That is exactly what PDF should become!

it is almost unbelievable that how US and Pakistan despite all this are able to work together. there is a genuine desire to avoid confrontation and resolve it like allies but thre is a communicaiton barrior.

I see all these media alligations and do you know what scene comes to my mind? the half blown head of a 7 year old boy who whas shot dead at point blank range along with a Maj Gen of Pakistan army in an attack on a Mosque in Pindi.

in Pakisan, the powerful people commit a crime and then file a case against the victims who are then picked up and tortured by the police.... its rougly same situation with the Pakistani state here.
 
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it is almost unbelievable that how US and Pakistan despite all this are able to work together. there is a genuine desire to avoid confrontation and resolve it like allies but thre is a communicaiton barrior.

I see all these media alligations and do you know what scene comes to my mind? the half blown head of a 7 year old boy who whas shot dead at point blank range along with a Maj Gen of Pakistan army in an attack on a Mosque in Pindi.

in Pakisan, the powerful people commit a crime and then file a case against the victims who are then picked up and tortured by the police.... its rougly same situation with the Pakistani state here.

I fully understand this situation - from BOTH sides. People like you and I , along with PDF leaders need to work on this great need.
 
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I fully understand this situation - from BOTH sides. People like you and I , along with PDF leaders need to work on this great need.
Why would it ever be fixed as long as Pakistanis think that warring with India, or Israel, or the U.S. is more important than mending basic issues of humanity and justice at home?

I know you guys are always looking for excuses not to act, not to change course, not to do anything risky. The Army might be brave but without strong civilian leadership it can't change course decisively. Yet the civilian leadership (and, Zardari tells us [Wikileaks], some of the soldiers too) won't do anything because they are afraid of getting murdered by fanatics.

So what solution have you guys thought of? (To me, of course, it's obvious - but I want to see what you guys have learned.)
 
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