Army High commands use to meet Shahbaz Shairf during PTI's government: Sheikh Rasheed

[jamesisi]

The army is criminal, everyone should know this by now.

I would say Bajwa and Co are criminals as the common soldiers still protecting us terrorist .

 

[VCheng]

In Pakistan its different. When Army puts IK in seat all is good, when Army gives a damn, then Army is bad.

To be fair, there are other camps too: When Army puts NS/BB in seat all is good, when Army removes them, then Army is bad for some. When Army puts IK in seat all is good, when Army gives a damn, then Army is bad, for some others.

The Army only does what it has always done. And it is not about to stop. That is Pakistan's reality, for good, bad and worse.

 

[Jango]

Any possibility of kickbacks in the probable Belgian C130 deal for Pakistan Army as we keep hearing about Belgian farmhouses and retirement plans....

Very very unlikely...

The institutions rely on you to do your checks and balances, not sit back and relax and go "Allah hawalay" and be selfish; only to whine about it when all hell finally breaks loose.

And therein lies the crux of the issue.

Any time you bring up a public issue, the response is, tumhain kia ha is say. There is no concept of ownership in this country, absolutely none. You ask a public utility, public office, government office, anyone to account for anything, and the answer is "Tumhain kia hai".

We all just want to keep on sitting in our own little cocoons, just trying to nibble away a piece from here and there and be our own selfish selves.

 

[Jango]

PTI wanted shireen to be defence minister to which they didn't agree.

Asad Umar was removed because of them

IK tried his best work with them for betterment of country by accepting some of their demands but resisting on others to which they got angry.

They should stop behaving like a Royal family.

The fauj ALWAYS chooses it's own defence minister and Sec Def. That's like an employee choosing their own boss!

That is why a part of me thinks that IK deliberately moved against the DG ISI appointment, to try and impose the civilian government on this position, since after all ISI reports to him.

But he was wrong in wanting Faiz Hameed to continue, since that was totally against the usual transfer structure of the Army. IIRC, Gen Sarfraz was the second name for the position in the second list that was given (this was AFTER the official ISPR PR), but IK still wanted another name.

The ISI is a big anomaly in our executive structure. The position reports to the PM, but is de facto appointed by the COAS, and has to be posted in accordance with the internal mechanisms of the Army. All the wings and dets are also headed by serving army officers, so what control does the PM have on the ISI? Just make it a military institution and perhaps put it under JS HQ, and end this facade.

But end main baat wohi hai, the military does not want to cede space, especially in security matters and also on foreign policy, and somewhat in economic policy as well. Anyone who tries to square up to them, like IK did (and how NS did at one time), gets the boot.

Ab the foreign policy is completely run by the military, Billo is a placeholder. And SS is more than happy to give everything to them. All is hunky dory. The day SS shows some eyes to them, he will get the boot too.

Just look at what Aslam Bhootani said...'Mainay udhr baat ki jahan say phone atay hain aur unhon nay mera kaam karwaya"...the kaam was to get a rpoject into PSDP.

Ab koi nhn bolta media wala keh fauj parliament chala rahi hai, ya hakoomat chala rahi hai, ya ungli pakri hai bla bla....sellouts.

 

[El Sidd]

If in Pakistan you want to discredit any notion or take away the grave seriousness of a matter, let this Rashid S. open his mouth on it.

 

[Olympus81]

Establishment chucking out PTI on any basis is wrong. Likewise, establishment chucking out PMLN on any basis is wrong. The establishment and it’s supporters cannot use whataboutism and justify tossing out PTI. (Spare me the excuse that this was done legally through NCV)

The difference this time was in this day and age, the establishment stood completely exposed. Today, majority of Pakistanis have a very negative view of the establishment and by extension the Generals. That’s the only good outcome of this fiasco for Pakistan in the long run.

Previously, the public would ignore overthrowing of government or invasion of Islamabad as they'd be tired of the previous government for one reason or the other.

The establishment cannot continue ruling with impunity and follow this path. Look what it has done to Pakistan politically and economically. A few more rounds of government overthrows and economy being grounded Pakistan's survival would be in question.

In addition, the establishment addiction to the Sharifs, overthrowing them and then bringing them in, has reached a narsisstic state. Had things been left to progress organically, Sharifs would have been voted out and become MQM-like.

 

[TNT]

Shameful and pathetic behavior of our military and establishment. These beghairats will break up Pakistan. Already there is an uprising against the army in Waziristan, the media is totally silent about it. More and more pashtuns want to get rid of this pathetic, slave and brown chamcha army.
If things are not corrected soon and drastically, mark my words, majority pashtuns are going towards separatism. It would be impossible for the state to hold balochistan and KPK anymore. If they try to use force then it will be even worst.

 

[Baghial]

Yeah! and what about this HARAM KI AULAD OF GHQ?

oh yeah -------------- the imported general ,s from usa,.....


till today, generals and priministers of pakistan are appointed in oval office..

but imran project was brain child of jews/ goldschmids.rothchilds,

they way he fooled every one , with his tasbeeh, and hoer pinky,

now we have a generation of brainless youthia youmbie,s

Just like your Mafroor leader in London?

yaar, another mafroor,, is back from dubai hospital since 2 days,
hes drinking his own piss in privite hospital now, close to death,

he could,nt be cured from aids./sida,


ring any bells camando mushi ............his body should be hanged like

Oliver Cromwell​

English general

 

[IceCold]

but imran project was brain child of jews/ goldschmids.rothchilds,

Bus ker da. kisi sa hatred main insaan ko anda nahi ho jana chaie. Pacand na pacand apni jaga lakin sub jan chuka hain kon goldsmith ka brain child ha or kon nahi.

 

[Baghial]

Yeah! and what about this HARAM KI AULAD OF GHQ?

A high-ranking official is being rewarded for recovering a stolen necklace and watch from a thief driver and his wife who live in bani gala.

PTI KEH ABU JEE,

 

[VCheng]

But end main baat wohi hai, the military does not want to cede space, especially in security matters and also on foreign policy, and somewhat in economic policy as well. Anyone who tries to square up to them, like IK did (and how NS did at one time), gets the boot.

Ab the foreign policy is completely run by the military, Billo is a placeholder. And SS is more than happy to give everything to them. All is hunky dory. The day SS shows some eyes to them, he will get the boot too.

For better or worse, this is the Pakistani system as it currently stands, after having been honed and evolved for the better part of a half-century. Any substantive changes to such a system can be permitted to only be gradual, since a revolution would be too disruptive, given the geopolitical neighborhood and its compulsions.

 

[Acetic Acid]

The ISI is a big anomaly in our executive structure. The position reports to the PM, but is de facto appointed by the COAS, and has to be posted in accordance with the internal mechanisms of the Army. All the wings and dets are also headed by serving army officers, so what control does the PM have on the ISI? Just make it a military institution and perhaps put it under JS HQ, and end this facade.

Pakistan needs another civilian agency

Already there is an uprising against the army in Waziristan, the media is totally silent about it. More and more pashtuns want to get rid of this pathetic, slave and brown chamcha army.
If things are not corrected soon and drastically, mark my words, majority pashtuns are going towards separatism. It would be impossible for the state to hold balochistan and KPK anymore. If they try to use force then it will be even worst

Imran khan is the last link between Pakistan and pashtuns
Just like Hussain shaheed was between Bengalis and Pakistan
After his death mujeeb came
Next one from KPK won't be pacific like IK

 

[Jango]

For better or worse, this is the Pakistani system as it currently stands, after having been honed and evolved for the better part of a half-century. Any substantive changes to such a system can be permitted to only be gradual, since a revolution would be too disruptive, given the geopolitical neighborhood and its compulsions.

Agree with that.

Moreover, in the current system you cannot expect anyone to be completely free of military contacts or support, no matter how miniscule or how significant it is.

Everyone has to go through them, whether they like it or not.

That is my biggest gripe with those who say that Imran Khan is also a military stooge. He wasn't propped up by the military, unlike PML-N, PML-Q, or Bhutto (PPP itself was a natural party). Pre 2013 Imran Khan had negligible support from the military, and even during the first couple of years of N league government.

We are too quick to lose perspective.

Establishment chucking out PTI on any basis is wrong. Likewise, establishment chucking out PMLN on any basis is wrong. The establishment and it’s supporters cannot use whataboutism and justify tossing out PTI. (Spare me the excuse that this was done legally through NCV)

The difference this time was in this day and age, the establishment stood completely exposed. Today, majority of Pakistanis have a very negative view of the establishment and by extension the Generals. That’s the only good outcome of this fiasco for Pakistan in the long run.

Previously, the public would ignore overthrowing of government or invasion of Islamabad as they'd be tired of the previous government for one reason or the other.

The establishment cannot continue ruling with impunity and follow this path. Look what it has done to Pakistan politically and economically. A few more rounds of government overthrows and economy being grounded Pakistan's survival would be in question.

In addition, the establishment addiction to the Sharifs, overthrowing them and then bringing them in, has reached a narsisstic state. Had things been left to progress organically, Sharifs would have been voted out and become MQM-like.

Well said.

I remember my grandparents used to say that when Ayub or Zia came people were out on the streets giving flowers to soldiers.

Times have changed now, abhi to sirf backhanded support thi to PDM, and the public has come alive to their shenanigans, what if they go the more direct route? Times are long gone where you would learn about a secret deal a year later, it's the age of social media now, and the military can't control it.

 

[Jango]

Pakistan needs another civilian agency

What would it do then? Would it be at par with ISI or above them? Who will the ISI then report to.

Go through the following interview, especially the section I start it at. I know some folks who are related to the org, but this being said in public is perhaps a first for me. Just look at the excuses given by Rehman Malik, and the cold shoulder by the military as well for such an organization. Har kisi ki apni chaudrahat hai, and no one wants to give it up.

Imran khan is the last link between Pakistan and pashtuns
Just like Hussain shaheed was between Bengalis and Pakistan
After his death mujeeb came
Next one from KPK won't be pacific like IK

I was just having this discussion a couple days back with someone. PTI is perhaps the only party after a long time that hasn't run for govt in KP based on ethnic lines. They have support in Hazara regions, the Shangla, Kohistan, and also the hard core Pukhtoon. Otherwise, elections have always been seen based on ethnic split with the ANP taking a pukhtoon centric stance.

You can apply this to the PTI across the country as well, bar interior Sindh. Balochistan has totally different dynamics.

 

[SaadH]

The difference this time was in this day and age, the establishment stood completely exposed. Today, majority of Pakistanis have a very negative view of the establishment and by extension the Generals. That’s the only good outcome of this fiasco for Pakistan in the long run.

Previously, the public would ignore overthrowing of government or invasion of Islamabad as they'd be tired of the previous government for one reason or the other.

The establishment cannot continue ruling with impunity and follow this path. Look what it has done to Pakistan politically and economically. A few more rounds of government overthrows and economy being grounded Pakistan's survival would be in question.

In addition, the establishment addiction to the Sharifs, overthrowing them and then bringing them in, has reached a narsisstic state. Had things been left to progress organically, Sharifs would have been voted out and become MQM-like.

We are only one carefully crafted tragedy away from rekindling our love for the establishment. Public as always has short memories and will go running back to Generals in no time.