Army Chief Visits HIT

[Warking]

Check out the other thread that was made about this

Can you please send the link?

Old Tanks with newer Tech are still made battle worthy. So your armor fleet stays strong and that's how it ought to be.

So Al zarrar has no composite armor?

 

[iLION12345_1]

Can you please send the link?

So Al zarrar has no composite armor?

It does, I answered your questions in the other thread. https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/army-chief-visits-hit.727899/#post-13423118

 

[Raja Porus]

Today COAS visited heavy industries taxilla in this video by ISPR we can see armor of Al Khalid turret armor open and some information about Al- Zarrar. This is my first post so if its in the wrong category then sorry.

Video link:

Also can anyone with good understanding about Tanks elaborate on images bellow?


View attachment 791786


View attachment 791787View attachment 791786
What dose it mean by old T-59 casted turret with reshaping plates? Dose this imply that Al zarrar is just old T-59 with some new metal plates attached to its turret?

- 155mm arty gun barrels
- Viper AFV?
- Up armoured troop carrying trucks?

Also video shows that AZ program never stopped as I and perhaps @iLION12345_1 have been stressing or atleast was capped at a greater number and then restarted; obviously otherwise we wouldn't have been able to raise so many regts and formations if all T59s were to be replaced.

 

[iLION12345_1]

- 155mm arty gun barrels
- Viper AFV?
- Up armoured troop carrying trucks?

Also video shows that AZ program never stopped as I and perhaps @iLION12345_1 have been stressing or atleast was capped at a greater number and then restarted; obviously otherwise we wouldn't have been able to raise so many regts and formations if all T59s were to be replaced.

155MM artillery guns have been made at HIT for a long time now, HIT has full capability to rebuild M109 guns along with the barrels.

it does seem that the VIPER has some life left, strange to see, I don’t like it’s concept, but maybe the military has found a use for it.

The up armored trucks could be for the FC tender, or for the army itself, it’s still a hilux but if we get those in service it’ll be better than nothing, should protect against small arms fire. IEDs will remain an issue.

Not sure what the grey truck is however, will confirm in a bit.

As for AZ, the clip doesn’t show AZ still being under productionm the display tank is there 24/7, but maybe it does lend some credence to the fact that more were made, however it does show that UG is still getting upgrades and maybe more Upgrades than we initially thought.

 

[Raja Porus]

And this confirms that the Al-Zarrar did in fact only have sheet metal reshaping plates over it’s turret and no actual armor increase (excluding ERA).

Later on HIT made a second version with composite Additions to the AZs turret, on top of which ERA can be added as well. I assume they parked both the old and the new one there but didn’t show the New one. However I do have some pictures of the improved ones I took at HIT (yet to see them in army use, but then again it’s just a bolt-on armor upgrade so it can be added at any time).

Keep in mind both versions have the hull armor upgrade which does include composites at the front.
View attachment 791801
View attachment 791804View attachment 791805

We’ve seen that before, it’s Turret Composite array for Type 85UG (it may be the same as the original AK or different, but It does see, that they have changed it for UG over standard Type 85)

However this picture suggests otherwise since according to pk this AZ survived multiple spg, rpg and VBEDS. Metal sheet couldn't have stopped all that.
The composite block from the turret must have been removed. The metal plate which would cover it can be seen on the right side of the tank, and you can see it’s not penetrated, but rather removed. There is also no impact marks on the actual turret below, which suggests composite layer was not penetrated either. If it had just been sheet metal we would see impact marks on the turret below as that could never stop an RPG.(quote @iLION12345_1 )

 

[iLION12345_1]

However this picture suggests otherwise since according to pk this AZ survived multiple spg, rpg and VBEDS. Metal sheet couldn't have stopped all that.
The composite block from the turret must have been removed. The metal plate which would cover it can be seen on the right side of the tank, and you can see it’s not penetrated, but rather removed. There is also no impact marks on the actual turret below, which suggests composite layer was not penetrated either. If it had just been sheet metal we would see impact marks on the turret below as that could never stop an RPG.(quote @iLION12345_1 )
View attachment 791818

This is most definitely just a sheet metal cover, there’s simply no space for the composites underneath or over the turret, plus this is an old AZ which in this case was traveling without its ERA even.

A tank like the Type 59 can survive all those (barring the SPG, this tank wasn’t hit with that), because none of them are AT weapons. VBIEDS aren’t penetrative, they will do burn and frag damage as seen on this tank, and it was indeed hit by an RPG, but an HE Round, that would likely have just torn off that metal plate, the rest of the damage on the tank is indicative of such a hit.

There was another case in which an AZ turret was hit by an SPG-7 AT round and it went clear through the front and then out the back. That’s an entirely different tank altogether, there are pictures available of that tank too.

Regardless, in the pictures I posted above, the second two are of an AZ with composite armor over the turret. So they did improve it, it’s likely a bolt on upgrade that can be attached at any time.

The other tank in question, the back of the turret is blown open.

Other damaged AZs:

 

[iLION12345_1]

Check the back of the turret here. Part me of thinks this actually pushed them to increase its turret armor.

(Just for clarification these are not many different AZs, they’re just different angles of 2 or maybe 3 tanks, of which at least one was repaired iirc. Other than this I recall PA losing two type 59s earlier in 2007).

 

[iLION12345_1]

All off the shelf, however we may see some of its parts produced later under ToT for use on AK.



Very interesting photos these two. A rare look at the composite layout of a Pakistani tank, this proves that Type 85UG has possibly two upgrades we previously didn’t know, one is a new gun, instead of ZPT-98 they now likely have the improved ones found on AK, AZ and VT4, the other is the composite layout. It seems to have been upgraded to the one found on older AK models, or at least changed in some way, maybe by adding 1-2 more backplates. View attachment 791790View attachment 791792

Unrelated side note but damn that is an impressive amount of steel composite in the turret. Regardless of which tank it is.
It’s like they went “how much steel do we put here” and the answer was “yes”
(And that’s just the first layer of the composite block, there’s a large second layer and then multiple backplates behind that, not to mention the ERA on top
Of it).

 

[Aesterix]

And this confirms that the Al-Zarrar did in fact only have sheet metal reshaping plates over it’s turret and no actual armor increase (excluding ERA).

Later on HIT made a second version with composite Additions to the AZs turret, on top of which ERA can be added as well. I assume they parked both the old and the new one there but didn’t show the New one. However I do have some pictures of the improved ones I took at HIT (yet to see them in army use, but then again it’s just a bolt-on armor upgrade so it can be added at any time).

Keep in mind both versions have the hull armor upgrade which does include composites at the front.
View attachment 791801
View attachment 791804View attachment 791805

We’ve seen that before, it’s Turret Composite array for Type 85UG (it may be the same as the original AK or different, but It does see, that they have changed it for UG over standard Type 85)

Whats this written on the tank?

 

[khanasifm]

 

[Dazzler]

All off the shelf, however we may see some of its parts produced later under ToT for use on AK.



Very interesting photos these two. A rare look at the composite layout of a Pakistani tank, this proves that Type 85UG has possibly two upgrades we previously didn’t know, one is a new gun, instead of ZPT-98 they now likely have the improved ones found on AK, AZ and VT4, the other is the composite layout. It seems to have been upgraded to the one found on older AK models, or at least changed in some way, maybe by adding 1-2 more backplates. View attachment 791790View attachment 791792

Type 85 never had zpt98 nor do they have one now. Armor module has been changed with all materials made locally. I fail to understand the need of exposing classified stuff on in a video.

 

[Reichmarshal]

the pics of al zarrar are from the main display hall at HIT and this example of al zarrar has been standing there for as long as I remember.

al zarrar program was discontinued some time back.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Type 85 never had zpt98 nor do they have one now. Armor module has been changed with all materials made locally. I fail to understand the need of exposing classified stuff on in a video.

Then what gun did they use originally in 1991? HIT wasn’t making its own gun then nor was Pakistan importing any.

Armor module for Type 85-IIAP was already known to be made locally (you confirmed that some years ago on the forum)
It can also be visually confirmed By looking at module of ZTZ-96, but if the turret in the above picture is indeed of a Type 85UG, it means they’ve changed it further with the upgrade, it’s a similar layout to AK, makes sense given it was basically its successor.

Whats this written on the tank?

View attachment 791870

It means the tank doesn’t have any additional armor on turret, just thin steel reshaping plates to attach ERA over, however as seen in the pictures I posted, the AZs they made later do have some sort of added protection at the front of the turret, seems to be composite.

 

[Inception-06]

 

[Invictus01]

Anything that know a thing or two about tanks would testify that any modern ATGM would pass through these relics like hot knife through butter
Plus Reshaping a turret with metal plates is shabby to say the least
not to mention that majority of Al Khalids & Al Zarrars roll without any ERA cover what so ever
those that do cover only the front of the turret where by leaving the side which makes for a larger target absolutely vulnerable
HIT is an incompetent company churning out death traps for our Troops without any consideration for R&D and study of the modern ATGM that are out there
We certainly arent gonna be pitching these tanks against militants armed with RPGs at best but against IA with far superior Firepower