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Army and IAF face off over new war plan

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Army and IAF face off over new war plan
BY : India Today
The army and air force are battling it out over how to beat Pakistan in a flash war if and when that happens.
The Indian Air Force is not convinced about its role in the army’s “cold start doctrine” for a future Indo-Pak war.
The strategy envisages the air force providing “close air support”, which calls for aerial bombing of ground targets to augment the fire power of the advancing troops.
The growing tension between the two services is evident in a statement of air vice-marshal (retd) Kapil Kak, deputy director of the air force’s own Centre for Air Power Studies.

“There is no question of the air force fitting itself into a doctrine propounded by the army. That is a concept dead at inception,” Kak said.
A senior army officer disputes the notion of a conceptual difference between the two services. “The air force is supposed to launch an offensive under the doctrine by hitting targets deep inside enemy territory,” he said. But he admitted the air force was hesitant about ‘close air support’. ‘Cold Start’ is a post-nuclearised doctrine that envisages a “limited war” in which the army intends to inflict substantial damage on Pakistan’s armed forces without letting it cross the threshold where it could think of pressing the nuclear button.
The doctrine intends to accomplish the task before the international community led by the US and China could intercede to end hostilities. Kak said, “The air force has the primary task of achieving ‘air dominance’ by which Pakistan’s air force is put out of action allowing the army to act at will.”
But he sees little necessity for the air force to divert frontline fighter aircraft for augmenting the army’s fire power, a task that, in his opinion, can be achieved by the army’s own attack helicopters and multiple rocket launchers that now have a 100-km range.
But he agrees the two services should work according to a joint plan. It means the air force would launch ‘battlefield air strikes’ to neutralise threats on the ground based on an existing plan. But that would be different from an army commander calling for air support on the basis of a developing war scenario.
That is not the only problem facing the doctrine. In the past few weeks, many have expressed doubts about the army’s ability to launch operations on the basis of the new doctrine.
There are also apprehensions about the army’s incomplete deployment of forces, lack of mobility and unattended infrastructure development.
But senior officers say the army has identified the units, which would constitute the eight division-strong independent battle groups out of its three strike corps. These battle groups would comprise mechanised infantry, artillery and armour.
“The forces have exercised as constituted battle groups at least six times since 2004. Each of the identified unit knows where they will be deployed,” a senior General said.
According to him, the time for deployment has been cut down to “days”. “No longer will the movement of troops require three months like it did when Operation Parakram was launched after the attack on Parliament in 2001,” he said.

The army also debunks the idea that the troops lack mobility. Some armed forces observers have said only 35 per cent of the army is mobile inside the country.
They have, thus, concluded that even less numbers would be mobile inside the enemy territory.
The army officials, however, pooh pooh the criticism claiming 100 per cent of the Indian troops are mobile.
 
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Thats a weird article from India Today...

Do we really need to discuss how to finish our the enemy during war in an open scenario. why cant these things kept secret and shut? or probably just a rumour and spicy story for the magazine

nevertheless .. y do we need to bother about an enemy is getting jacked by the very monsters it created. with economy in shambles... poverty on rise .. army and taliban battling out ... the scenario is similar to what happened in somalia which is currently a lawless state.

rather fix our defence view wrt china rather pak ...

well the article only speaks superficially about the true nature of the argument, If it even is true.

About your comments on Pakistan.
I dont believe Pakistan will be destroyed in any sense of the word.
what will happen is change in Pakistan, I can only hope this change is in the best interests of Region.
 
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Why doesnt the armed forces just send their blueprints and ground plans to their Asian neighbours with a nice little note saying

"Dear neighbour when we decide to invade your country this is how we propose doing so. In the interim we are facing this dilemma where our army and airforce are squabbling over tactics. Could you possibly assist us by letting us have your comments on our plans and any suggestions to resolve the impasse between our army and airforce will be most welcome. Thank heavens that we have you as neighbours to invade and to assist us with our plans to invade you. Yours sincerely Indian Armed Forces Commander" :rofl:

The media of India truly need to start concentrating on reality and to leave entertainment to an extremely competent Bollywood :coffee:
 
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True ... change comes when people change their thinking and views. But what can u expect from a country whose population 80% - 90% in poverty. poor parents give up extra children for money who are recruited by the jihad war machine.

Its strange when we Indian/Pakistanis point out each other about poverty in their respective states....DO you have any idea about the level of poverty we have??? Can we deny our pathetic performance on Child Labour..malnutrition...Child marriages...poverty...above all Human Rate Index??? Now mayt i ask on what basis you are pointing towards poverty in Pakistan???


Change here is impossible.

This may be your view..Ask an average Pakistani and you will find out they have the same sentiments as you and I to change their country for good...However when we use such harsh words against someon'e nation we surely need to do some reality checks on ours...


Hope you don't take my post as offensive and ponder over it with open mind...
 
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It would be better that the discussion is kept to the thread opened, if you guys wish to make it in a troll war, then be ready for the consequences too. If don't have something useful to contribute then better keep it shut other then to troll.
 
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how to seek such dominance in the sky?

when Pakistan shoot down your Mig-29 with a PL-12 missile fired from a JF-17, you lose one and it takes years to get the replacement from russia.

when you shoot down a Pakistan JF-17, well, workers in Pakistan and China work overnight and the PAK airforce get the replacement in days.

tell me how you can get such dominance?

assuming india can fight a war with Pakistan alone is stupid. once you attack Pakistan, you see Chinese aids flow to Pak and I assure you our production capacity is well beyond your imagination.
 
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how to seek such dominance in the sky?

when Pakistan shoot down your Mig-29 with a PL-12 missile fired from a JF-17, you lose one and it takes years to get the replacement from russia.

when you shoot down a Pakistan JF-17, well, workers in Pakistan and China work overnight and the PAK airforce get the replacement in days.

tell me how you can get such dominance?

assuming india can fight a war with Pakistan alone is stupid. once you attack Pakistan, you see Chinese aids flow to Pak and I assure you our production capacity is well beyond your imagination.

Well a couple of us were discussing Mig-29 vs JF-17 . The common conclusion from both the sides ( India & Pakistan) was that Mig-29 is quite superior to JF-17 . Furthermore I find it difficult to contemplate that JF-17 & Mig-29 will actually face off. Mig-29 will face off the pakistani Mirage 5/Rose and the F-16. Su-30 mki will face JF-17 where JF-17 will be defending and Su-30 will be the aggressor. Now I do not have much info about JF-17 but I know that PAF has it in very small numbers as of now & they will need to be inducted in more than half a dozen of squadrons for them to be effective.

Also, a war between India and pakistan ( God willing there will never be any) will be a short war for 15-20 days at max, so the Industrial capacity of China wont have much impact ( As its not a war of attrition).

I guess IAF can acheive domination/supremecy not just air superiority over the Pakistani skies provided they have a superiority of 3:1 in numbers. As far as the quality goes then strictly in my opinion i find IAF's current inventory much superior then that of PAF. Also in coming years this existing gap maybe widened due to the present condition of pakistan's economy. Nuclear assets are Pakistan's best bet against India, they cant match us in terms of conventional terms because of their economy and size.

P.S : Good to see you trying to contribute effectively. Hope it continues. :cheers:
 
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how to seek such dominance in the sky?

when Pakistan shoot down your Mig-29 with a PL-12 missile fired from a JF-17, you lose one and it takes years to get the replacement from russia.

when you shoot down a Pakistan JF-17, well, workers in Pakistan and China work overnight and the PAK airforce get the replacement in days.

tell me how you can get such dominance?

assuming india can fight a war with Pakistan alone is stupid. once you attack Pakistan, you see Chinese aids flow to Pak and I assure you our production capacity is well beyond your imagination.

Yeah i remember well how China helped us with a lot of military aid during the 2001 crisis with India. we got SAM systems from China in no time, lot of other weapons, and most important of all dozens of brand new J-7 fighters which were shipped in crates and also Chinese engineers helped in assembling them at the Pakistani air bases and this operation was done in the shortest possible time period.

But unfortunately we are still lacking in some quality products compared to India and AF is one of them. Hope we get quality products soon to counter the imbalance.

And as for this Indian Cold Start Doctrine, hopefully PA would have devised their counter strategy plans as same case happened in 87 also when India wanted to kind of use such strategy in disguise of Operation Brasstack. PA has inducted lot of mechanized units and armor units in its arsenal, also lot of SP units in place to support them.

Hope so we don't have to face another war in future, but it won't be an easy one for both sides.
 
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how to seek such dominance in the sky?

when Pakistan shoot down your Mig-29 with a PL-12 missile fired from a JF-17, you lose one and it takes years to get the replacement from russia.

when you shoot down a Pakistan JF-17, well, workers in Pakistan and China work overnight and the PAK airforce get the replacement in days.

tell me how you can get such dominance?

assuming india can fight a war with Pakistan alone is stupid. once you attack Pakistan, you see Chinese aids flow to Pak and I assure you our production capacity is well beyond your imagination.

1. What happens to chines toy aid in 1971.
2. What if war happens Israel and US will do full support to kill these Chinese toy.
3. What happens if uncle SAM scold Chinese to stay out of business like 71.
4. Do you think china dare to do so? OR timid like 1971

I guess you lacks knowledge. have a tea dude take some break.
 
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when you shoot down a Pakistan JF-17, well, workers in Pakistan and China work overnight and the PAK airforce get the replacement in days.
Like in 1965 and 1971 and 1998?

tell me how you can get such dominance?
Similar to 1971 - Probably Easier this time since we have better aircrafts in Mig29, Su-30MKI and a stealthy Mig21 now

Jai Hind!!
 
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Yeah i remember well how China helped us with a lot of military aid during the 2001 crisis with India. we got SAM systems from China in no time, lot of other weapons, and most important of all dozens of brand new J-7 fighters which were shipped in crates and also Chinese engineers helped in assembling them at the Pakistani air bases and this operation was done in the shortest possible time period.

But unfortunately we are still lacking in some quality products compared to India and AF is one of them. Hope we get quality products soon to counter the imbalance.

And as for this Indian Cold Start Doctrine, hopefully PA would have devised their counter strategy plans as same case happened in 87 also when India wanted to kind of use such strategy in disguise of Operation Brasstack. PA has inducted lot of mechanized units and armor units in its arsenal, also lot of SP units in place to support them.

Hope so we don't have to face another war in future, but it won't be an easy one for both sides.
Dont expect any help from China. The only help you can expect in war is may be from the oil states who may step up with their oil embargo against us out of pity for you.
 
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Dont expect any help from China. The only help you can expect in war is may be from the oil states who may step up with their oil embargo against us out of pity for you.

Well can expect such statement from someone with very low level of knowledge and who has nothing else other then doing Jai Hind in every other post.
 
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Now that's some big time war mongering if there ever was.
 
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Now that's some big time war mongering if there ever was.

Come on man what it has to do with war mongering??every army places a military plan to counter its enemies..even your country has one for sure..Its their duty...as for India is concerned the media is everywhere and they are printing anything and every thing irrespective of the sensitivity of the document..
 
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