Armenia seeks long-range weapons against Turkey and Azerbaijan

[Pasban]

Re-read my last post

I did.

Ajam tememi???

It loosely means "stuttering barbarian (Ajam)." Also, I mistyped. It is "Ajam temtemi."

I guess Iran doesn’t have the leverage to broker talks between the two, nor do other countries for that matter. Hopefully it can be solved without further violence

Ensh'allah.

I lived in Turkiye for some period; just curious why you spelled my name as ‘’Zolfaghar’’ ??

Incidentally, spelling of countries is not an important component of this thread or discussion.

Tashakor.

"Zolfaghar" was purposely done-- a Persian tone touch to it. (Joke)
Lastly, I didn't say the spelling was an important component. I didn't even put it in the main text. I was simply curious to your usage. I live in France, yet I don't write it out as Turquie. Anyways, it is unimportant. Whatever suits you best.

Shukriyah.

 

[turkaholic]

Armenia would never EVER attack Turkey, but for some funny reason I want them to.

 

[True_Pakistan_Zindabad]

Armenia would never EVER attack Turkey, but for some funny reason I want them to.

Consider me another amused party.

 

[Fedayeen]

The weapon purchases that Armenia seeks are not for to be used against Turkey. It is for Azerbaijan and their big mouth but do nothing Sultan Aliyev. In case of Azeri aggression against Artsakh (Nagorno Karabagh Republic) Armenia does not need to get involved other than send weapons and supplies under the table if need be. The karabaghtsies (Armenians of Karabagh) will be enough to stop any aggression and this time Azeris will pay a bigger price and loose more territory.
Last time with all their military superiority complete with hired Chechen and Afghan Mujahedeen’s, Russian missionaries, Israeli weaponry they couldn’t beat a bunch of farmers with rifles. Even though on the paper Azerbaijan has a bigger military inventory today, it is well known fact that the NKR Army is the most powerful and discipline in all Caucuses and those Armenian Spartans fight for their ancestors land and many have their house and family no more than 10 miles from the borders.

Azeris want it? Come and get it.........as far as Turkey, Armenia and Russia run drills all the time on a Turkish invasion scenario ground forces and air including Russian MIG-29s in conjunction with Armenian SU-25s.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

The weapon purchases that Armenia seeks are not for to be used against Turkey. It is for Azerbaijan and their big mouth but do nothing Sultan Aliyev.

Uh oh! I wonder what Iranian Azeris will think about this ‘’proposal’’

Bad strategy in my humble view.

In case of Azeri aggression against Artsakh (Nagorno Karabagh Republic) Armenia does not need to get involved other than send weapons and supplies under the table if need be. The karabaghtsies (Armenians of Karabagh) will be enough to stop any aggression and this time Azeris will pay a bigger price and loose more territory.

Doubtful. Azerbaijan is fairly well equipped now, they even have a small defence industry and are self-sufficient in some ways. Armenian are 100% reliant on Russian

I am surprised that you would adopt such a stance on Azerbayjan.

Last time with all their military superiority complete with hired Chechen and Afghan Mujahedeen’s, Russian missionaries, Israeli weaponry they couldn’t beat a bunch of farmers with rifles.

Is it true they used those fighters from those countries?

By the way, most of Azerbayjan’s army did not take combat roles during soviet times; whereas Armenians were enlisted as soldiers, therefore they had a slight advantage in terms of training. If it became a full fledged battle and other nations got involved, the latter would have had a huge dominating role.

Azeris want it? Come and get it.........as far as Turkey, Armenia and Russia run drills all the time on a Turkish invasion scenario ground forces and air including Russian MIG-29s in conjunction with Armenian SU-25s.

40-50 combat ready aircrafts would definitely not suffice!


I’m fairly neutral on this conflict; but I think in a battle of attrition Azerbayjan would eventually have the upper hand in the medium-long run

 

[Fedayeen]

Uh oh! I wonder what Iranian Azeris will think about this ‘’proposal’’

Bad strategy in my humble view.

Iranian Azaris are nothing like Azeris from "Azerbaijan"....just like Iranian Turks are nothing like Anatolian Turks. They consider themselves Iranis above all. However Northern Iran is being infested by Gray Wolf movements from Azeri Turk wannabes and influencing the poor Azaris there.

Doubtful. Azerbaijan is fairly well equipped now, they even have a small defence industry and are self-sufficient in some ways. Armenian are 100% reliant on Russian

I am surprised that you would adopt such a stance on Azerbayjan.

Our weapons are Russian but you won't find a single Russian soldier in Artsakh and never will even with all out war. I know Turks and Azeris love to justify themselves like " look, Russians will do all the fighting and dieing for Armenians" We are actually glad that they feel that way. Fear of conflict is better than war that they preach and have absolutely no idea of the horros involved.

Is it true they used those fighters from those countries?

Absolutly....one of the best fighters we came across was the Afghan Mujahadins (4000 to 5000 strong). They were actually making gain but we brock their radio codes and stopped them dead cold. Russian missionaries flew for both sides and many were captured by Armenians after their jets were shut down.

By the way, most of Azerbayjan’s army did not take combat roles during soviet times; whereas Armenians were enlisted as soldiers, therefore they had a slight advantage in terms of training. If it became a full fledged battle and other nations got involved, the latter would have had a huge dominating role.

We have heard all the excuses of the loosers.

40-50 combat ready aircrafts would definitely not suffice!

Armenia does not want to liberate Western Armenia at this time. Turkey is too strong. The day might come but not now.

Turkey must realize......Armenian "WEDGE" will hold and we will never allow Turkey to reach eastward and join their fake sattelite State called Azerbaijan that has not exsisted in history before 1920s.

I’m fairly neutral on this conflict; but I think in a battle of attrition Azerbayjan would eventually have the upper hand in the medium-long run

OK, if you say so.....I guess we will never know because Azeri leadership is more worried about buying Villas in Dubai while they swim in oil money as their people suffer in poverty rather than to risk loosing everything to Armenians.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Iranian Azaris are nothing like Azeris from "Azerbaijan"....just like Iranian Turks are nothing like Anatolian Turks. They consider themselves Iranis above all. However Northern Iran is being infested by Gray Wolf movements from Azeri Turk wannabes and influencing the poor Azaris there.

the Gray Wolves (Bozkurt) have many affiliations in Central Asia, where ethnic Turkic people have presence

Absolutly....one of the best fighters we came across was the Afghan Mujahadins (4000 to 5000 strong). They were actually making gain but we brock their radio codes and stopped them dead cold. Russian missionaries flew for both sides and many were captured by Armenians after their jets were shut down.

who is ''we'' ??

Armenia does not want to liberate Western Armenia at this time. Turkey is too strong. The day might come but not now.

Where on your map is ''western armenia'' ??

It is better for armenia to develop itself and be at good terms with its neighbours. I think they have annoyed the Turks enough with their cheap diplomacy --which has failed them every time and made them look even stupider by the day.

i am speaking with regard to this ''genocide'' nonsense which they are happy to go to a politician or lobby group before going to a certified historian

Turkey must realize......Armenian "WEDGE" will hold and we will never allow Turkey to reach eastward and join their fake sattelite State called Azerbaijan that has not exsisted in history before 1920s

.

[independent] Turkiye also didn't exist until 1920s. Many nations in the globe did not. What are you trying to say?

I guess we will never know because Azeri leadership is more worried about buying Villas in Dubai while they swim in oil money as their people suffer in poverty rather than to risk loosing everything to Armenians.

I could be wrong, but post-soviet stages --average income was low even by soviet standards; poverty isn't killed overnight.

Most of those in total poverty in Azerbayjan are refugees/IDPs, including those who returned after USSR collapse; and/or those who fled the Nagorni-Karabakh region as a result of the conflict with armenian

 

[Pasban]

Salam.

@ Abu Zolfiqar

Uh oh! I wonder what Iranian Azeris will think about this ‘’proposal’’

Could you explain this statement further.

@ Fedayeen

I think you need to balance out your argument a bit further. The "liberation of western Armenia (north-eastern Turkey)" remains much of a pipe dream as the concept of "Greater Armenia" considering present circumstances and arrangements. Moreover, it's southern fringes involve Iranian territory as well. Iranians and Turks are not willing to lose territory under any circumstance. It can be wrestled only through open conflict. Anyways, this is the subject matter of a very different thread. As for Azerbaijani military capabilites, as I stated before, they can provide Azerbaijan with a sturdy defense as well as allow it a spearhead footing to some extent. However, it is not sufficient to overwhelm Armenia in any case unless a third party shifts the balance-- which would be disastrous for the entire region. Armenia for it's part is well equipped to provide a staunch defense. As such, I foresee no substantive gains for both involved parties. I do agree on your bit about the "Armenian wedge" for that is what it is and this is one of the reasons that it is present. As for the disputed NK region, the armed units presents there are arguably one of the best trained in the region and they are heavily armed as well. Furthermore, the area is heavily fortified. It would take heavy air cover to dislodge the defenses which Azerbaijan cannot provide at present.

Side note: I wish to ask, are you an Iranian ethnic Armenian?

 

[Fedayeen]

who is ''we'' ??

We as in the Armenian people.....and you have no idea who I am.

Where on your map is ''western armenia'' ??

For proper borders of Turkey and Armenia see Wilson Arbitration in connection with the Sevres treaty…it really doesn’t matter, we don’t expect Turkey to give our lands back without a fight. We (Armenians) make no claim on current Turkish occupied lands.

It is better for armenia to develop itself and be at good terms with its neighbours. I think they have annoyed the Turks enough with their cheap diplomacy --which has failed them every time and made them look even stupider by the day.

Is Turkey still butthurt from loosing the diplomatic battle in the Armenian-Turkish protocol deal that Russia, France, and US backed Armenia’s side?

i am speaking with regard to this ''genocide'' nonsense which they are happy to go to a politician or lobby group before going to a certified historian

I thought the Turks claim that it was the Armenians who Genocided Turks?

[independent] Turkiye also didn't exist until 1920s. Many nations in the globe did not. What are you trying to say?

Azerbaijan was given to Ataturk by Stalin to please him….there was no Azeri nation before that. Check history books, not Turkish history books. Turkey name changed after the collapse of Ottoman Empire and their defeat in WWI where Islam was replaced brutally with secularism.

Gotta go now...

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

We as in the Armenian people.....and you have no idea who I am.

it's only the internet and we're on a forum. Wouldnt expect to know you.

For proper borders of Turkey and Armenia see Wilson Arbitration in connection with the Sevres treaty…it really doesn’t matter, we don’t expect Turkey to give our lands back without a fight. We (Armenians) make no claim on current Turkish occupied lands.

are you sure you aren't Kurdish?

Kurds claim areas of Turkiye, so do Armenians -- both these groups claim ownership over provinces like Van. That is ridiculous. First of all, Turkish Republic is a sovereign country; who is armenia to call it occupied lands?

I am also confused about your loyalties; do they belong to armenian or to Iran? It's a personal question, I may be out of line by asking. But I am very curious to know.

Is Turkey still butthurt from loosing the diplomatic battle in the Armenian-Turkish protocol deal that Russia, France, and US backed Armenia’s side?

losing?????


they didnt!!!!!!! And in all honesty, and allow me to be very frank with you -- the Armenian lobby in Washington seems to have its undies caught up in a bunch. They are politicizing the issue just for cheap publicity; the truth is, it is the job of HISTORIANS to do research on the matter. You wont get sympathy by going to Congress and trying to get them to label it ''genocide'' to appease Armenians.

I thought the Turks claim that it was the Armenians who Genocided Turks?

I think that during the fall of the Ottoman Empire -- EVERYONE was getting killed; Turks, Armenians, Kurds included.

By the way, given that Armenians were defecting to soviets and betraying the Ottomans --it seems natural that they would have been under a ''watchful eye'' no?

Azerbaijan was given to Ataturk by Stalin to please him….there was no Azeri nation before that.

okay, but the Azeri-Turks were still there, they didn't just magically appear

it's irrelevant though, soviet union is about as passe as telegrams and the Ford Model T

Check history books, not Turkish history books. Turkey name changed after the collapse of Ottoman Empire and their defeat in WWI where Islam was replaced brutally with secularism.

Islam was replaced, but not suppressed. Ataturk didnt want religion to play a key role in national affairs. I think he had contempt for Arabs, not for Islam itself. But he feared the effects of Islamists becoming TOO MUCH powerful in state affairs. And I personally think he did the right thing, since I too believe that religion and state shouldnt be necessarily inter-twined, except for some legal/family/financial matters which cannot be neglected.

Gotta go now...

 

[airuah]

Isn't armenia militarily inferior to azerbaijan,let alone Turkey?Will they dare to do anything against Turkey?

that is the reasons they want the weapons......it will be a deterrance

 

[Fedayeen]

are you sure you aren't Kurdish?

Far from it……are you sure you are not a Turk?

Kurds claim areas of Turkiye, so do Armenians -- both these groups claim ownership over provinces like Van. That is ridiculous. First of all, Turkish Republic is a sovereign country; who is armenia to call it occupied lands?

Kurdish claim is ridiculous and we all know it. Armenia holds the deed to Western Armenian land and that is why Turkey is taking this very seriously by trying time and time again to get the Armenian government to officially accept the current borders as legal. Why would big bad Turkey want something like that from little Armenia? Because they are afraid that one day the landlords that they killed will be back to claim their property. You have to remember that the Wisonian Armenia is the law of the land passed by President Wilson and cannot be over ruled or changed and has no expiration date. All it needs is for it to be enforced.

Like I said.....maybe one day.

I am also confused about your loyalties; do they belong to armenian or to Iran? It's a personal question, I may be out of line by asking. But I am very curious to know.

You ask about Armenian loyalty. It is well known that Armenians in Diaspora give their allegiance to the country they were born in but they never go back on their sacred Holly Oath to Mother Armenia. Iranians know us very well and they understand this. I will give you a perspective with this small example, Armenian fought in Iran-Iraq war and there were Armenian volunteers on both sides (Iranian Armenians and Iraqi Armenians). Currently Armenian Americans serve in Iraq and Afghanistan as US soldiers. Every one of those Armenians will volunteer to protect mother Armenia soon as possible when duty calls.
The irony of this is that Armenian have ended up killing each other unknowingly on the battlefields of other nations. Such is our story, sad but true.

losing?????


they didnt!!!!!!! And in all honesty, and allow me to be very frank with you -- the Armenian lobby in Washington seems to have its undies caught up in a bunch. They are politicizing the issue just for cheap publicity; the truth is, it is the job of HISTORIANS to do research on the matter. You wont get sympathy by going to Congress and trying to get them to label it ''genocide'' to appease Armenians.

Listen, you keep bringing up the Genocide issue which I am not interested in. I don’t care if you believe it or not, it is a fact of history and every leader of the world knows what had happened. The reason it is not being officially recognized by USA and Israel and certain countries as of yet is because of political and national interest reasons for having Turkey as a key ally in Middle East and a gateway to move troops in and out of war zones (besides everything else). Personally I don’t give a damn who recognizes what especially the criminal Turkish government. For me is too late, I have seen the eyes of my grandfather as he described how he at the age of 16 escorted Armenians through the mountains bare footed on a two month journey to Iran with Turkish soldiers and Kurdish bandids on pursue.

Turks can continue living a life of lie with no honor.........or they may choose to become a man and accept their bloody history, their choice.

okay, but the Azeri-Turks were still there, they didn't just magically appear

it's irrelevant though, soviet union is about as passe as telegrams and the Ford Model T

You mean Turkified Iranis.......we know they were there, so were the Kurds. We lived together on the Armenian ancestral lands under the Ottoman yoke.

So, where is your loyalty compared to us Armenian Disporans? Is it to Pakistan or Turkey?

 

[LegionnairE]

Why would big bad Turkey want something like that from little Armenia? Because they are afraid that one day the landlords that they killed will be back to claim their property.

We really really shitting our pants... You have immigrated because of your treason, your pathetic nation have set up gangs and raided Turkish villages when empire was fighting in many fronts

You have used the weakened time of Empire and rioted and you got what you deserve and a hundered years later you still cry about it...

You mean Turkified Iranis.......we know they were there, so were the Kurds. We lived together on the Armenian ancestral lands under the Ottoman yoke.

So, where is your loyalty compared to us Armenian Disporans? Is it to Pakistan or Turkey?

Turkified Iranis? There are more Azeri Turks in Iran then Persians go spread your bullsh*t in somewhere else

Turks and Pakistanis are brothers maybe scum like you wont understand...

 

[rumit]

One would assume these weapons will come from Russia. During the same press conference, Ohanian downplayed the still-unconfirmed rumors that Azerbaijan would be acquiring S-300 air defense systems from Russia, saying he didn't have any information that that was true, and that anyway it was a "defensive" weapon. Perhaps his confidence comes from actually knowing that the rumors aren't true?

 

[Fedayeen]

that is the reasons they want the weapons......it will be a deterrance

This is something that Russia is doing to increase its influence in the Caucasus. They are rumors of selling S-300s (with anti ballistic capability) to Azerbaijan while at the same time they are selling long ranged missiles to Armenia (presumably able to reach Baku oil fields). Also they want to increase their lease to 45 years on the Russian base in Armenia. All of this is happening at once and it seems Russia wants to keep status quo in Karabagh issue and push its own national interests. To us Armenians, as much as we are against these moves, a status quo is preferred to an all out war. Those are the two choices facing us now, instead of peace, prosperity and growth we face stagnation and more Russian influence in Armenian politics.