Arjun News & Discussions

[deckingraj]

I am so happy to see where Arjun has reached...Interestingly none of critics have shared their thoughts on this issue...
My personal view is that we should not induct Arjun in its present form in large numbers......Simply no point in putting so much money on a tank that we would like to replace in next 2 decades(FMBT)....As per our current threat perception(remember if at all war broke out then large scale Tank battles will only happen on our western border). Upgraded T-72 and already ordered T-90 will do the job.

Though T-90 is a good tank yet has its limitations in deserts so in present scenario Arjun role should be to take care of THAR(both defense and offence)....Look guys we have the infrastructure and proved our expertise in this particular field...I mean if a tank can outclass such a mature platform like T-90 than there is hardly any doubts on its might...Need of the hour is that Army and DRDO should pull their act together and ensure there is no COMMUNICATION GAP betwen supplier and user for out FMBT....With the expertise we have and Israeli collaberation i am sure Arjun MKII would be almost invinsible...


In the mean time we should pitch Arjun for exports...I mean why not make some $$$ if we have such a world class Tank!!!

 

[forcetrip]

I would again wait till official statements are out .. But definitely a big thumbs up on the preliminary reports.

 

[manish123]

I am so happy to see where Arjun has reached...Interestingly none of critics have shared their thoughts on this issue...
My personal view is that we should not induct Arjun in its present form in large numbers......Simply no point in putting so much money on a tank that we would like to replace in next 2 decades(FMBT)....As per our current threat perception(remember if at all war broke out then large scale Tank battles will only happen on our western border). Upgraded T-72 and already ordered T-90 will do the job.

Though T-90 is a good tank yet has its limitations in deserts so in present scenario Arjun role should be to take care of THAR(both defense and offence)....Look guys we have the infrastructure and proved our expertise in this particular field...I mean if a tank can outclass such a mature platform like T-90 than there is hardly any doubts on its might...Need of the hour is that Army and DRDO should pull their act together and ensure there is no COMMUNICATION GAP betwen supplier and user for out FMBT....With the expertise we have and Israeli collaberation i am sure Arjun MKII would be almost invinsible...


In the mean time we should pitch Arjun for exports...I mean why not make some $$$ if we have such a world class Tank!!!

Because we will die with those dollars if china lands its heavy tanks in pakistan or america either donates or itself fields the abrams in pakistan. Only defence is Arjun.Tinpot 90/72 are firetraps and wars dont announce 3 yrs before happening.Already Pakistan is huddled with U.S as we are writing this and china is always there to make life miserable for us.This money that we spend nobody likes but truth is we desperately need Arjun with america or china landing in pakistan any moment. The geopolitical situation is very bad with americas financial problems and history shows that whenever confronted by this situation america goes to war. Ahmedinajad is saying that real target of america in pakistan is india or china.He might be a nutcase but is president of Iran.When he talks world listens. America is also pressurizing us on kashmir and because of which these Aman Ki asha talks have started. I have link on this if u are interested or google "India shall not lose its grip‎"

 

[sancho]

Cant disagree, though I expect a little more positive attitude towards LCA from you

Oh my attitude towards LCA is positive (atleast for the air force version), that's why I want to see it in service as soon as possible. Imo, we have all the options to make LCA MK2 a really great fighter, it depends only on the techs and weapons we chose for it. The only problem I have is the way the development went through and all the delays.

 

[kallol]

Going by some of the comments here my take is the following :

1. Arjun was supposed to be a replacement for T-70. It beats even T-90 but many here argue that Arjun should not be inducted and we should continue with blind T70 & T-90 !!!!. That way LCA should not be inducted and we should continue with Mig-21. I do not think this logic works.

2. In case you need to have a better "next version" we need to go through the total development life cycle through which we would be able to indigenize to the fullest extent and have decisve control over the technology and product. The break even number for this is 500+. Any one who is linked to developing this kind of complex system will know this.

3. The success and failure of any product also depends on the field issues and statistical relaibility analysis of the field data. For this also you need lot of data from field to ensure that the durability and reliability over the predicted life is within army's specifications. Even a old car has to meet the exhaust standard - this is the rule which is applicable for the different parameters of the tank performance also.

4. German technology is supposed to be world's best - even now the engineers vouch for that. So no question of the engine being a fuel guzzler in comparision with peers. Additionally during war, no one bothers about this factor when you have other fuel guzzlers like the fighter aircrafts, ships, etc. So forget this excuse. They have already working with cumins and also have Indian transmission in place.

5. I am sure we have enough engineering capability to design logistics support for 60 t tank. So that cannot be an excuse.

6. It is naive of us to think that in case needed CVRDE will limit its production to single line !!! If required it can establish 5 lines, even more. So it can produce 250 tanks per year !!! What stops it ?

Let us not underestimate our capability. I have very thorough understanding & knowledge of what we can do.

But yes, I agree that there are vested interests in different quarters which might slow down this. But the reform has been put in place by BJP govt and is being pursued by this govt also. Reform is slow but it is happening. That is why lat 10 years you are seeing lots of changes in the attitude of IA & IAF. Also many products are being "successful"

 

[ssheppard]

I don't know if someone has already posted this ...

 

[sudhir007]

Arjun In Present Form Can Never Be Our MBT, 2 More Regiments Possible"

don't think any results of trials have been as closely guarded as the ones of the Arjun tank in the Thar desert straddling this month and the last, and which ended a little over a week ago. And while the trial team's report will only be submitted in the first week of next month, I had a candid chat with an Army officer who was part of one of the trial teams, and I have to admit he's the first Army tankman I've spoken to so far who's admitted that the Army is as much to blame for the Arjun's "situation" (his word) as DRDO. I can't go into everything he said, because he's requested me not to get into the details until the trial report is in, but here's a gist of what he thinks. Remember, these's aren't facts, but a considered assessment of an officer who was part of the latest trial exercise. A lot of what he said was obvious -- stuff that's been guessed at for years, so I'll put what he said on the table -- make what you will of it. Here's a list of some of the things he shared with me:

*
"The Arjun performed all its objectives to the full satisfaction of the trial team. I should point out that there was little doubt in our minds at this stage that any major issues would crop up in the platform. The Arjun has reached a level of maturity after several trial rounds, so we were quite confident that we would not encounter any developmental or serious technological issues."
*
"In its current form and configuration, I think the Army has already made it very clear that the Arjun cannot be the mainstay of the armoured corps. There are several reasons for this, including some intangibles which everyone is aware of, but to be fair to the Army, there is logic to the argument that the Arjun belongs to a certain design and configuration philosophy that the Army does not want in its future tank. These trials have given deep perspective into where the Arjun fits in our battle order."
*
"Although it is not definite at this stage, and may change in the course of the days ahead, several key decision-makers in the Army have in-principle agreed to the suggestion that the Arjun in its present form can occupy four tank regiments. But there is resistance to this idea from the field. The just concluded trials could support the possibility of a total of four Arjun regiments focused on desert operations."
*
"The Army should share the blame also for not expediting its requirements for a future main battle tank (FMBT). There have been internal studies for years, but to this day, there is no definite picture of what our FMBT should have, look like or be capable of. So when the people at DRDO blame us for indecision and mid-stream QR changes, they do seem to have a case. As they did with Arjun."
*
"The Army is quite clear. We need to close one chapter and begin another. Call it Mark-2, call it something else. But things need to move forward. It is unhealthy how things have progressed, though I can say in the last three years there appears to be a much greater empathy between the Army and DRDO about how to take things forward. Let's hope it continues."
*
"Admittedly, the trials may not go a long way in resurrecting Arjun as some quarters have been led to believe, but it has been a healthy exercise and the Army is in a strong position now to use the Arjun to the best of its abilities. The tank has been given its due."

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/03/arjun-in-present-form-can-never-be-our.html

 

[manish123]

Do you understand why we are so upbeat about Arjun.. Its an underdog who beat all odds and finally prevailed over the goliath which is the natasha loving procurement lobby in the IA. None of the media reports that i have come across is claiming that Arjun is the best tank in the world. But never the less its a World calss tank that was build by India and its the best India has. This is a tank that can go head to head with any tank in the "region" any time of the day or night. It means a lot to us and how much ever you ridicule that doesn't change.

cheers brother.. take a chill pill and allow us to celebrate this momentous achievement

My 2 paisa says it IS the best tank in the world.

 

[su-47]

My 2 paisa says it IS the best tank in the world.

Lets not get carried away bro. It proved it is superior to T-90, but remember T-90 is a tank in a different weight class. It is smaller.

Calling Arjun the best in the world is going too far.Israel, USA, France, UK and Germany all have more experience developing tanks than us. and their electronics and sub-system industries are more developed, so their tanks will benefit from that. Only way to really find the best would be to pit them aganist each other in several gruelling tests. And I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Lets just say Arjun is the best tank we have to date. It has taken a very long time to mature, but atleast it was a success.

 

[s6demon]

Well, We are not calling Arjun BEST BEST BEST all of a sudden, only after it successfully proved its metal after competing T-90 which is one among the worlds best tanks, and If Arjun outrun T-90, what should we call it?? should we still call it useless???

You personally are not saying best best best but the two videos posted in this thread use the word "best" and so do a lot of the articles posted here and also some contributors say its the best.

I am not saying call it useless if it out ran T-90. As i said, if you give me constant development news about it. Then, if its true, you wouldnt have to tell me its a good tank, I would already know.

But I just havent herd any good news about it.Almost every single Indian news source said it was a gigantic failure. Untill this complete 180.

 

[s6demon]

LCA has completed more than 1000 test flights. And this report is from Jan 2009
http://www.ada.gov.in/Others/Curren...09_Tejas-LCA_/_22_1002-Jan-09_tejas-lca_.html

And it has never crashed, never failed till date.

Bhai, If all that was true. Why then Indian Airforce still doesnt want it?? Simple question

Stop trolling. Use BAIDU or anything that suits you and research first.

hahahahaha, that really made me laugh.

 

[LCA Tejas]

You personally are not saying best best best but the two videos posted in this thread use the word "best" and so do a lot of the articles posted here and also some contributors say its the best.

I am not saying call it useless if it out ran T-90. As i said, if you give me constant development news about it. Then, if its true, you wouldnt have to tell me its a good tank, I would already know.

But I just havent herd any good news about it.Almost every single Indian news source said it was a gigantic failure. Untill this complete 180.

My job is not to prove an Indian product with a person with Anti-India attitude ..... And Yes, if it out ran T-90, A person with minimum common sense should be capable of drawing an outline about that product without wasting time asking for more development Information to change the thought.

We are not compelling you to see Arjun as a beast, You can see it as Your old Arjunk... You are used to Going bed thinking that and thus avoiding nightmares, Iam no one to be a pest in your sleep...

 

[s6demon]

My job is not to prove an Indian product with a person with Anti-India attitude .......

I dont have an anti-India attitude. My best friend here in the U.S. is an Indian. No joke.

The only difference is that he isnt delusional. You cant tell me you never read any news that said Arjun was a complete failure. I can even post those news papers here. And to now say its the best tank in the world, hell even the subcontinent, is a JOKE.

 

[jagjitnatt]

Bhai, If all that was true. Why then Indian Airforce still doesnt want it?? Simple question

Its not that IAF doesn't want it. IAF wants it badly. But there are standards that need to be met. And IAF doesn't want another Mig21 type problem.

The specs for LCA are high up there equivalent to the best 4th gen aircrafts. IAF will get clearance this year and by 2012 you'll see in service. If it wasn't for the engine, it would have been inducted already.

 

[ptldM3]

I don't know if any one knows but this news is from a blogger by the name of Shukula (he's not credible). Some people are already saying the Arjun is better than Abrams, Merkava ect and although i do think it's a very capable tank i also think people need to calm down and wait for an official anouncement before coming to conclusions. Just a warning, the trolls are going to have a feild day with this thread if the Arjun is rejected.