Arjun News & Discussions

[Choppers]

"Arjun In Present Form Can Never Be Our MBT, 2 More Regiments Possible"​

I don't think any results of trials have been as closely guarded as the ones of the Arjun tank in the Thar desert straddling this month and the last, and which ended a little over a week ago. And while the trial team's report will only be submitted in the first week of next month, I had a candid chat with an Army officer who was part of one of the trial teams, and I have to admit he's the first Army tankman I've spoken to so far who's admitted that the Army is as much to blame for the Arjun's "situation" (his word) as DRDO. I can't go into everything he said, because he's requested me not to get into the details until the trial report is in, but here's a gist of what he thinks. Remember, these's aren't facts, but a considered assessment of an officer who was part of the latest trial exercise. A lot of what he said was obvious -- stuff that's been guessed at for years, so I'll put what he said on the table -- make what you will of it. Here's a list of some of the things he shared with me:

"The Arjun performed all its objectives to the full satisfaction of the trial team. I should point out that there was little doubt in our minds at this stage that any major issues would crop up in the platform. The Arjun has reached a level of maturity after several trial rounds, so we were quite confident that we would not encounter any developmental or serious technological issues."


"In its current form and configuration, I think the Army has already made it very clear that the Arjun cannot be the mainstay of the armoured corps. There are several reasons for this, including some intangibles which everyone is aware of, but to be fair to the Army, there is logic to the argument that the Arjun belongs to a certain design and configuration philosophy that the Army does not want in its future tank. These trials have given deep perspective into where the Arjun fits in our battle order."


"Although it is not definite at this stage, and may change in the course of the days ahead, several key decision-makers in the Army have in-principle agreed to the suggestion that the Arjun in its present form can occupy four tank regiments. But there is resistance to this idea from the field. The just concluded trials could support the possibility of a total of four Arjun regiments focused on desert operations."


"The Army should share the blame also for not expediting its requirements for a future main battle tank (FMBT). There have been internal studies for years, but to this day, there is no definite picture of what our FMBT should have, look like or be capable of. So when the people at DRDO blame us for indecision and mid-stream QR changes, they do seem to have a case. As they did with Arjun."



"The Army is quite clear. We need to close one chapter and begin another. Call it Mark-2, call it something else. But things need to move forward. It is unhealthy how things have progressed, though I can say in the last three years there appears to be a much greater empathy between the Army and DRDO about how to take things forward. Let's hope it continues."



"Admittedly, the trials may not go a long way in resurrecting Arjun as some quarters have been led to believe, but it has been a healthy exercise and the Army is in a strong position now to use the Arjun to the best of its abilities. The tank has been given its due."

 

[Peshwa]

As has been the trend on this forum, lets wait until a reliable news source confirms before popping the bubbly.....

Nevertheless....I am highly optimistic.....

 

[Parashuram1]

Congrats to all Indian members on this forum. I think your country is finally starting to emerge into the world of successful arms suppliers. All the best to your defense industries.

Perhaps India and Switzerland could conduct joint venture designs of small and medium arms in future.

 

[Spitfighter]

The strike corps are composed primarily of Russian weapons, rations (fuel and such) are thus carried accordingly. From what I understand the main problem with the Arjun is its weight and fuel consumption, basically logistics, so no matter how well the tank performs, it will never comprise a large part of our tank fleet simply due to logistical issues. That said, I'm sure this isn't our last attempt at an indigenous tank. The DRDO has gained invaluable experience, hopefully the next tank works out better.

 

[1nd1a]

"Arjun In Present Form Can Never Be Our MBT, 2 More Regiments Possible"​

Do you know if they are making MarkII of Arjun?

 

[1nd1a]

Congrats to all Indian members on this forum. I think your country is finally starting to emerge into the world of successful arms suppliers. All the best to your defense industries.

Perhaps India and Switzerland could conduct joint venture designs of small and medium arms in future.

We already have JV with number of countries. Good to have another constructive one with you people.....

 

[desiman]

this must be raw propaganda

 

[1nd1a]

I will be more than happy if India inducts them.

It seems to me that you are very happy with Arjun. I see your comments on couple of forum about them. I am sure it may not be as good as you have, which were imported from Ukrain(however we have T-90, to take care of that). We are trying to get to a place where we can have our own MBT's. I think India will start constructing another one either with name Arjun Mark II or some other name.

I am sure the day will come very soon. Then you may not be as happy as you are friend.

 

[Fighter488]

Trials up: Arjun tank outruns, outguns Russian T-90​

New Delhi: India’s home-built Arjun tank has emerged a conclusive winner from its showdown with the Russian T-90. A week of comparative trials, conducted by the army at the Mahajan Ranges, near Bikaner in Rajasthan, has ended; the results are still officially secret. But, Business Standard has learned from multiple sources who were involved in the trials that the Arjun tank has outperformed the T-90 on every crucial parameter.

The trial pitted one squadron (14 tanks) of Arjuns against an equal number of T-90s. Each squadron was given three tactical tasks; each involved driving across 50 kilometres of desert terrain and then shooting at a set of targets. Each tank had to fire at least 10 rounds, stationary and on the move, with each hit being carefully logged. In total, each tank drove 150 kilometres and fired between 30-50 rounds. The trials also checked the tanks' ability to drive through a water channel 5-6 feet deep.

The Arjun tanks, the observers all agreed, performed superbly. Whether driving cross-country over rugged sand-dunes; detecting, observing and quickly engaging targets; or accurately hitting targets, both stationery and moving, with pinpoint gunnery; the Arjun demonstrated a clear superiority over the vaunted T-90.

"The Arjun could have performed even better, had it been operated by experienced crewmen", says an officer who has worked on the Arjun. "As the army's tank regiments gather experience on the Arjun, they will learn to exploit its capabilities." With the trial report still being compiled -- it is expected to reach Army Headquarters after a fortnight -- neither the army, nor the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO), which developed the Arjun tank in Chennai at the Central Vehicles R&D Establishment (CVRDE), are willing to comment officially about the trials.

The importance of this comparative trial can be gauged from a list of those who attended. Witnessing the Arjun in action were most of the army's senior tank generals, including the Director General of Mechanised Forces, Lt Gen D Bhardwaj; strike corps commander, Lt Gen Anil Chait; Army Commander South, Lt Gen Pradeep Khanna; and Deputy Chief of the Army Staff, Lt Gen JP Singh. The Director General of Military Operations, Lt Gen AS Sekhon also attended the trials.

Over the last four months, the army had systematically signalled that it did not want to buy more Arjuns. The message from senior officers was -- 124 Arjun tanks have been bought already; no more would be ordered for the army's fleet of 4000 tanks. The comparative trial, or so went the message, was merely to evaluate what operational role could be given to the army's handful of Arjuns.

"The senior officers who attended the trials were taken aback by the Arjun's strong performance," an officer who was present through the trials frankly stated. "But they were also pleased that the Arjun had finally come of age."

The army's Directorate General of Mechanised Forces (DGMF), which has bitterly opposed buying more Arjuns, will now find it difficult to sustain that opposition. In keeping out the Arjun, the DGMF has opted to retain the already obsolescent T-72 tank in service for another two decades, spending thousands of crores in upgrading its vintage systems.

Now, confronted with the Arjun's demonstrated capability, the army will face growing pressure to order more Arjuns.

The current order of 124 Arjuns is equipping the army's 140 Armoured Brigade in Jaisalmer. With that order almost completed, the Arjun production line at the Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF) in Avadi, near Chennai, needs more orders urgently. The Rs 50 crore facility can churn out 50 Arjuns annually. That would allow for the addition of close to one Arjun regiment each year (a regiment is authorised 62 tanks).

Tank experts point out that conducting trials only in Mahajan does not square with the army's assertion that they are evaluating a role for the Arjun. Says Major General HM Singh, who oversaw the Arjun's development for decades, "If they were evaluating where the Arjun should be deployed, they should have conducted the trials in different types of terrain: desert, semi-desert, plains and riverine. It seems as if the army has already decided to employ the Arjun in the desert."

The Arjun's sterling performance in the desert raises another far-reaching question: should the Arjun -- with its proven mobility, firepower and armour protection -- be restricted to a defensive role or should it equip the army's strike corps for performing a tank's most devastating (and glamorous) role: attacking deep into enemy territory during war? Each strike corps has 8-9 tank regiments. If the army recommends the Arjun for a strike role, that would mean an additional order of about 500 Arjuns.

But Business Standard has learned that senior officers are hesitant to induct the Arjun into strike corps. Sources say the Arjun will be kept out of strike formations on the grounds that it is incompatible with other strike corps equipment, e.g. assault bridges that cannot bear the 60-tonne weight of the Arjun.

Source: Business Standard


Trials up: Arjun tank outruns, outguns Russian T-90 -  2010: Defence & Internal Security Special on MSN India

 

[Novice09]

As has been the trend on this forum, lets wait until a reliable news source confirms before popping the bubbly.....

Nevertheless....I am highly optimistic.....

Do you think that your childhood friend is more reliable than GoI? I do.

My friend, who is serving in Indian Army and drives T-90, told me that Arjun tank was tested till such extent that even T-90 cannot clear those tests. He was the part of the initial testing team (for Arjun).

From his own sources (in current trials), he came to know that Arjun outperformed T-90 in all sections excluding weight and width. Top brass of army was pissed off by Arjun’s performance because now they have to answer the Defense Ministry and GoI. Even the criticizers were shocked with the accuracy and agility of Arjun which is clustered with comfort for crew.

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: "Arjun In Present Form Can Never Be Our MBT, 2 More Regiments Possible"

The Army should share the blame also for not expediting its requirements for a future main battle tank (FMBT). There have been internal studies for years, but to this day, there is no definite picture of what our FMBT should have, look like or be capable of. So when the people at DRDO blame us for indecision and mid-stream QR changes, they do seem to have a case. As they did with Arjun.

 

[flaming arrow]

CONGRATULATIONS EVERYONE WHERE IS THE BEER,THIS WAS COMING IAM VERY HAPPY TO SEE THAT ARJUNHAS FINALLY PROOVED IT WORTH THE TRIAL RESULTS WERE TO COME OUT LIKE THIS,GUYS FAILURES ARE JUST STEPPING STONES IF UR SHOOTINF FR PERFECTION,MAY BE OUR CHINESE AND PAKISTANI FRIENDS SHOULD DROP IN THIER COMMENTS ON THE ABOVE PROVIDED NEWS

 

[Mahakaya]

by Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 25th Mar 2010

India’s home-built Arjun tank has emerged a conclusive winner from its showdown with the Russian T-90. A week of comparative trials, conducted by the army at the Mahajan Ranges, near Bikaner in Rajasthan, has ended; the results are still officially secret. But Business Standard has learned from multiple sources who were involved in the trials that the Arjun tank has outperformed the T-90 on every crucial parameter.

The trial pitted one squadron (14 tanks) of Arjuns against an equal number of T-90s. Each squadron was given three tactical tasks; each involved driving across 50 kilometers of desert terrain and then shooting at a set of targets. Each tank had to fire at least ten rounds, stationary and on the move, with each hit being carefully logged. In total, each tank drove 150 kilometres and fired between 30-50 rounds. The trials also checked the tanks’ ability to drive through a water channel 5-6 feet deep.

The Arjun tanks, the observers all agreed, performed superbly. Whether driving cross-country over rugged sand-dunes; detecting, observing and quickly engaging targets; or accurately hitting targets, both stationery and moving, with pinpoint gunnery; the Arjun demonstrated a clear superiority over the vaunted T-90.

“The Arjun could have performed even better, had it been operated by experienced crewmen”, says an officer who has worked on the Arjun. “As the army’s tank regiments gather experience on the Arjun, they will learn to exploit its capabilities.”

With the trial report still being compiled --- it is expected to reach Army Headquarters after a fortnight --- neither the army, nor the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO), which developed the Arjun tank in Chennai at the Central Vehicles R&D Establishment (CVRDE), are willing to comment officially about the trials.

The importance of this comparative trial can be gauged from a list of those who attended. Witnessing the Arjun in action were most of the army’s senior tank generals, including the Director General of Mechanised Forces, Lt Gen D Bhardwaj; strike corps commander, Lt Gen Anil Chait; Army Commander South, Lt Gen Pradeep Khanna; and Deputy Chief of the Army Staff, Lt Gen JP Singh. The Director General of Military Operations, Lt Gen AS Sekhon also attended the trials.

Over the last four months, the army had systematically signalled that it did not want to buy more Arjuns. The message from senior officers was: 124 Arjun tanks have been bought already; no more would be ordered for the army’s fleet of 4000 tanks. The comparative trial, or so went the message, was merely to evaluate what operational role could be given to the army’s handful of Arjuns.

“The senior officers who attended the trials were taken aback by the Arjun’s strong performance”, an army officer who was present through the trials frankly stated. “But they were also pleased that the Arjun had finally come of age.”

The army’s Directorate General of Mechanised Forces (DGMF), which has bitterly opposed buying more Arjuns, will now find it difficult to sustain that opposition. In keeping out the Arjun, the DGMF has opted to retain the already obsolescent T-72 tank in service for another two decades, spending thousands of crores in upgrading its vintage systems.

Now, confronted with the Arjun’s demonstrated capability, the army will face growing pressure to order more Arjuns.

The current order of 124 Arjuns is equipping the army’s 140 Armoured Brigade in Jaisalmer. With that order almost completed, the Arjun production line at the Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF) in Avadi, near Chennai, needs more orders urgently. The Rs 50 crore facility can churn out 50 Arjuns annually. That would allow for the addition of close to one Arjun regiment each year (a regiment is authorised 62 tanks).

Tank experts point out that conducting trials only in Mahajan does not square with the army’s assertion that they are evaluating a role for the Arjun. Says Major General HM Singh, who oversaw the Arjun’s development for decades, “If they were evaluating where the Arjun should be deployed, they should have conducted the trials in different types of terrain: desert, semi-desert, plains and riverine. It seems as if the army has already decided to employ the Arjun in the desert.”

The Arjun’s sterling performance in the desert raises another far-reaching question: should the Arjun --- with its proven mobility, firepower and armour protection --- be restricted to a defensive role or should it equip the army’s strike corps for performing a tank’s most devastating (and glamorous) role: attacking deep into enemy territory during war? Each strike corps has 8-9 tank regiments. If the army recommends the Arjun for a strike role, that would mean an additional order of about 500 Arjuns.

But Business Standard has learned that senior officers are hesitant to induct the Arjun into strike corps. Sources say that the Arjun will be kept out of strike formations on the grounds that it is incompatible with other strike corps equipment, e.g. assault bridges that cannot bear the 60-tonne weight of the Arjun.

Broadsword: Arjun tank outruns, outguns Russian T-90

 

[Mahakaya]

One more from Livefist:

I don't think any results of trials have been as closely guarded as the ones of the Arjun tank in the Thar desert straddling this month and the last, and which ended a little over a week ago. And while the trial team's report will only be submitted in the first week of next month, I had a candid chat with an Army officer who was part of one of the trial teams, and I have to admit he's the first Army tankman I've spoken to so far who's admitted that the Army is as much to blame for the Arjun's "situation" (his word) as DRDO. I can't go into everything he said, because he's requested me not to get into the details until the trial report is in, but here's a gist of what he thinks. Remember, these's aren't facts, but a considered assessment of an officer who was part of the latest trial exercise. A lot of what he said was obvious -- stuff that's been guessed at for years, so I'll put what he said on the table -- make what you will of it. Here's a list of some of the things he shared with me:
"The Arjun performed all its objectives to the full satisfaction of the trial team. I should point out that there was little doubt in our minds at this stage that any major issues would crop up in the platform. The Arjun has reached a level of maturity after several trial rounds, so we were quite confident that we would not encounter any developmental or serious technological issues."
"In its current form and configuration, I think the Army has already made it very clear that the Arjun cannot be the mainstay of the armoured corps. There are several reasons for this, including some intangibles which everyone is aware of, but to be fair to the Army, there is logic to the argument that the Arjun belongs to a certain design and configuration philosophy that the Army does not want in its future tank. These trials have given deep perspective into where the Arjun fits in our battle order."
"Although it is not definite at this stage, and may change in the course of the days ahead, several key decision-makers in the Army have in-principle agreed to the suggestion that the Arjun in its present form can occupy four tank regiments. But there is resistance to this idea from the field. The just concluded trials could support the possibility of a total of four Arjun regiments focused on desert operations."
"The Army should share the blame also for not expediting its requirements for a future main battle tank (FMBT). There have been internal studies for years, but to this day, there is no definite picture of what our FMBT should have, look like or be capable of. So when the people at DRDO blame us for indecision and mid-stream QR changes, they do seem to have a case. As they did with Arjun."
"The Army is quite clear. We need to close one chapter and begin another. Call it Mark-2, call it something else. But things need to move forward. It is unhealthy how things have progressed, though I can say in the last three years there appears to be a much greater empathy between the Army and DRDO about how to take things forward. Let's hope it continues."
"Admittedly, the trials may not go a long way in resurrecting Arjun as some quarters have been led to believe, but it has been a healthy exercise and the Army is in a strong position now to use the Arjun to the best of its abilities. The tank has been given its due."

 

[Mahakaya]

So What do you guys think? A cover up from the ARMY - For sure!

but you think this will increase the number of Arjuns in our inventory?

On the other hand - I remember that two Tank Ex have also been provided to the Military for trials - anyone has any news on that?

Also, do you guys think that these results if publicized by DRDO can help get Arjun some export orders - I believe Columbia was looking @ ARJUN for their MBT.

 

[Aslan]

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