Are TURKEY and PAKISTAN really ALLIES?

[Adonis]

China is actively involved in the development of Pakistan's financial, infrastructure, military and nuclear programs, China's partnership with Pakistan is very concrete and tangible in almost all sectors all across board, Turkey's brotherhood with Pakistan is largely emotional and ceremonial.
If Pakistan has to make a choice between China and Turkey, Pakistani people will choose Turkey instantly, Pakistani government, no matter which party in office, will choose China without a second thought.

You are right...but question is state policies are made on common interests.....and interests keep changing.
Tell me if in future, axis of world economics shifts to Indo-China region then India and China would need each other even more. If India agrees to BRI but asks China to discard Pakistan, I am sure even China will choose India.Similarly, Since the fall of USSR, India gradually started shifting towards US....but now again that might change.... as it says, "Change is the only Constant". So every thing changes, including friends.

On Pakistan, unfortunately, Pakistani elites have not yet decided on What is their priority (in 70+ years)....to remain a security state, to try remain welfare state but under Military supervision, to be democratic, to be Islamic (with Shari'a)...etc etc.With the result, their allegiance has kept wavering....and since as a country they couldn't deliver much on the world stage, Pakistan's "Friends" have changed their "Friend".

 

[Gorgin Khan]

Just wanna ask you a simple question, why all world, Russia, US, Israel, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Jordan supports India over you? Is it because indians are nice people? Is it because their country is great? No. Because they have 450billion dollars forex reserves. Every fucking one of them, Saudis, Israelis loves them because of this. Now I know calling them rich might sound like an insult for you but I am not trying to make you feel bad. But for the sake of the math, all Pakistani Economy isn't 450 million dollars let alone the forex reserves. Don't see it as an insult. Even if you crush them in battlefield, they have more money.
Now, to answer your questions, State banned to sell any lethal weapons to india. They wanted to buy support ships, UCAV's. And let's be honest there, they would throw some billions just for the support. Or why you think they buy from every country? Iranian oil, israeli, american, russian and french weapons,... I would say it works, pay some money and everyone will shut up.
Now, For your other question, we mostly sell our weapons to US, Germany, Oman and Qatar after that it is Holland, India and Azerbaijan. You can look at to list. So yes we do sell weapons to Germany and US.
PS, Right now, you are number 22. So there is actually 21 countries who buys more from us. Hope I answered your question.
https://www.haberturk.com/iste-turk...n-cok-ihracat-yaptigi-ulkeler-2282368-ekonomi

Now let me repeat myself, you can buy, you can sell I don't care. But we didn't sell you for money unlike Saudis and others which let's be honest it would be logical to do so. Thats why before talking about ''Turkey would sell us if they had a chance'' look at to world you live in. Look at to mirror, and you will see perhaps our way of thinking is not the same.

Being poor might be an insult in your books not in mine. Tell me you did not receive the money for all what you sold us ? May be you are living in other world and misinterpreting our relations with your country and taking all these deals for granted. How many countries gave you such big orders as i mentioned and that too for high end products not for pistols? Check. You gave us political support on international forums and you got the deals, Understand it and remember it .

And you dont need to show us mirrors, what did turkey did for us during our entire history? You will find empty pages there, So dont try to fit in a frame which is beyond your size. You want to act like USA or a bully but my friend you dont have that leverage yet, neither will it be. We are Muslim nations and that will biggest plus point for your country because the general sentiment about turkey in pakistan is very good right now .

Your country can sell where ever it wants we are happy for you (but the SLAP you are going to get from there you dont have any idea). I just stated the facts and thats the current reality. Dont try to be what you are not. We Pakistanis in general might be poor and simple , but not fools. May be you need to save this attitude for your Arab neighbours, they might buy it.

Every Nation has the right to decide for themselves whats in there best interest . I am not here to talk to you about International relations of pakistan vs other countries. But dont teach us that India cancelled the deal due to us. When did pakistan say you should not sell to India? You just opted for a better deal. Period!

 

[Yankee-stani]

Being poor might be an insult in your books not in mine. Tell me you did not receive the money for all what you sold us ? May be you are living in other world and misinterpreting our relations with your country and taking all these deals fore granted. How many countries gave you such big orders as i mentioned and that too for high end products not for pistols? Check. You gave us political support on international forums and you got the deals, Understand it and remember it .

And you dont need to show us mirrors, what did turkey did for us during our entire history? You will find empty pages there, So dont try to fit in a frame which is beyond your size. You want to act like USA or a bully but my friend you dont have that leverage yet, neither will it be. We are Muslim nations and that will biggest plus point for your country because the general sentiment about turkey in pakistan is very good right now .

Your country can sell where ever it wants we are happy for you (but the SLAP you are going to get from there you dont have any idea). I just stated the facts and thats the current reality. Dont try to be what you are not. We Pakistanis in general might be poor and simple , but not fools. May be you need to save this attitude for your Arab neighbours, they might buy it.

Pakistanis are not fools they are naive all you need as a foreign diplomat or foreign nation tell you "love us" or call us "brothers" but sell us arms and weapons and investments insert more crappy Dosti songs eg-China and Turkey etc, yeah about their Arab neighbors the recent events in Syria and Libya have shown no one wants Turkey to be hegemon there they played their cards wrong and got burned

 

[Turan09]

Being poor might be an insult in your books not in mine. Tell me you did not receive the money for all what you sold us ? May be you are living in other world and misinterpreting our relations with your country and taking all these deals fore granted. How many countries gave you such big orders as i mentioned and that too for high end products not for pistols? Check. You gave us political support on international forums and you got the deals, Understand it and remember it .

And you dont need to show us mirrors, what did turkey did for us during our entire history? You will find empty pages there, So dont try to fit in a frame which is beyond your size. You want to act like USA or a bully but my friend you dont have that leverage yet, neither will it be. We are Muslim nations and that will biggest plus point for your country because the general sentiment about turkey in pakistan is very good right now .

Your country can sell where ever it wants we are happy for you (but the SLAP you are going to get from there you dont have any idea). I just stated the facts and thats the current reality. Dont try to be what you are not. We Pakistanis in general might be poor and simple , but not fools. May be you need to save this attitude for your Arab neighbours, they might buy it.

Oh I didn't called you poor, I said ''Indians are rich'' this are two different things.
About your Question, Don't know... All weapon exports to Pakistan progress thanks to Turkish EximBank Credits. Which it's not really important. Didn't I told you we don't care about the money?
About the weapon exports, I send you the list didn't I? And this india we didn't like actually buys more, so let's not talk about ''who gave you more orders'' and again unlike you and some of your people we don't care about the money.
What did Turkey did for you? If you wanna talk about the history... Well, let me start. Most of your ruling class was actually our kin. We gave you security for centuries. We introduced islam to you. (And lets not forget thanks to Islam, you are different than this indians you so hated. And funny to think, you can eat beef thanks to that) Even your language named by us. ''Urdu'' ''Ordu'' Your flag is actually an Ottoman flag, https://previews.123rf.com/images/c...e-coat-of-arms-1299-1923-3d-illustration-.jpg
Well lets continue, Ottoman empire declared war to imperalist states to save you. We fough for your freedom.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_naval_expeditions_in_the_Indian_Ocean
Thanks to Atatürk, your founder Muhammad Ali Jinnah imagined an independent Pakistani State. You can read about his admiration for Atatürk if you like.
Now, it might look vain for you. But I am still gonna say it... Afterall you wanted to talk about history. Take us out of your history and there will be no You. There will be no islam there will be no Pakistan for you. There will be only indians left.

 

[Gorgin Khan]

Oh I didn't called you poor, I said ''Indians are rich'' this are two different things.
About your Question, Don't know... All weapon exports to Pakistan progress thanks to Turkish EximBank Credits. Which it's not really important. Didn't I told you we don't care about the money?
About the weapon exports, I send you the list didn't I? And this india we didn't like actually buys more, so let's not talk about ''who gave you more orders'' and again unlike you and some of your people we don't care about the money.
What did Turkey did for you? If you wanna talk about the history... Well, let me start. Most of your ruling class was actually our kin. We gave you security for centuries. We introduced islam to you. (And lets not forget thanks to Islam, you are different than this indians you so hated. And funny to think, you can eat beef thanks to that) Even your language named by us. ''Urdu'' ''Ordu''
Well lets continue, Ottoman empire declared war to imperalist states to save you. We fough for your freedom.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_naval_expeditions_in_the_Indian_Ocean
Thanks to Atatürk, your founder Muhammad Ali Jinnah imagined an independent Pakistani State. You can read about his admiration for Atatürk if you like.
Now, it might look vain for you. But I am still gonna say it... Afterall you wanted to talk about history. Take us out of your history and there will be no You. There will be no islam there will be no Pakistan for you. There will be only indians left.

Credits which you will get paid with interest. And Dont teach us history, God Introduced Islam to us because he wished it so. Turks cannot credit for it sorry bro! those were someone else, Urdu is our national language not mother tongue of majority of Pakistanis , But we all speak it and understand it as second language. Pakistan have 22 different languages. I think i would not like to take it further believe me i can answer each of your question. I dont want to show you the mirror.

Talking is not enough . You still did not provide evidence what turkey did for pakistan in 70 years?

And tell me who are you to talk on behalf of all turks ? Because your country is named turkey which is 100 years Old. Ottoman empire is not turkey and turkey is not Ottoman empire. Turkey is not representing Turks all around the world. .

 

[beijingwalker]

I will be honest there, india is rich. Economically there is no comparison between you and them. They are as a state god damn rich. And best part is, they don't have a national defence industry, it is appetizing, much more than Pakistan ever will be... They were ready to pay 2.3 billion dollars only for support ships... 2.3 billions only for the support ships!
Now, this was all about the gaining the support of the Turkish State. A simple trick, now imagine the guys who wanna pay 2.3 billion dollars only for the support ships... how much they would pay for other products? They don't buy from us because we are supporting you, otherwise, we would just got our piece from the cake. And this cake is big and looks delicious.

No, the reality is even Turkey and India have very good relationship, Indians won't buy any weapons from Turkey, Indians want nothing but the best or the most expensive, Turkey has nothing in their inventory to offer to India, on the countrary, because of good relations with Turkey, Pakistan spent tons of dollar purchasing Turkish equipments, which have few if any countries would consider to buy, it's Turkey the one trying to take advantge of this relationship.

 

[Turan09]

Credits which you will get paid with interest. And Dont teach us history, God Introduced Islam to us because he wished it so. Turks cannot credit for it sorry bro ! Urdu is our national language not mother tongue of majority of Pakistanis , But we all speak it and understand it as second language. Pakistan have 22 different languages. I think i would not like to take it further believe me i can answer each of your question. I dont want to show you the mirror.

Talking is not enough . You still did not provide evidence what turkey did for pakistan in 70 years?

And tell me who are you to talk on behalf of all turks ? Because your country is named turkey which is 100 years Old. Ottoman empire is not turkey and turkey is not Ottoman empire. Turkey is not representing Turks all around the world. .

First you wanted to talk about history and know just because you didn't like the results you want to talk only about 70 years? Sorry, we weren't a good babysitter in this last 70 years. If it's gonna make you feel better, I am sorry for it. But I will repeat myself, Take us out of your history and there will be no you. Sad for you maybe but this is the truth.

No, the reality is even Turkey and India have very good relationship, Indians won't buy any weapons from Turkey, Indians want nothing but the best or the most expensive, Turkey has nothing in their inventory to offer to India, on the countrary, because of good relations with Turkey, Pakistan spent tons of dollar purchasing Turkish equipments, which have few if any countries would consider to buy, it's Turkey the one trying to take advantge of this relationship.

Disagree. This support ship deal and indian wish to buy Turkish Weapons in last years (UCAV's etc.) was a proof for what I say.

 

[beijingwalker]

There was a better option for us. Much better than Pakistan much richer than Pakistan, but unlike your saudi brothers for example, we didn't sell you.

Saudis can't sell Pakistan, cause it doesn't own Pakistan. When Pakistan was in dire needs, we saw Saudis and UAE offered help with billions but Turkey was nowhere to find. A country can't be sold or saved by lipservice.

Disagree. This support ship deal and indian wish to buy Turkish Weapons in last years (UCAV's etc.) are a proof for what I say.

Ask Indians here if they like to buy your stuff, Turkey is never a major weaponry exporter in the world at all.

 

[Gorgin Khan]

First you wanted to talk about history and know just because you didn't like the results you want to talk only about 70 years? Sorry, we weren't a good babysitter in this last 70 years. If it's gonna make you feel better, I am sorry for it. But I will repeat myself, Take us out of your history and there will be no you. Sad for you maybe but this is the truth.

You see you underestimated us . Anyhow good to know that you realise that we are not babies and you are not a baby sitter. We will accept you as our brothers not our masters. Dont live in a LaLa land . Have fun.

 

[Turan09]

Saudis can't sell Pakistan, cause it doesn't own Pakistan. When Pakistan was in dire needs, we saw Saudis and UAE offered help with billions but Turkey was nowhere to find. A country can't be sold or saved by lipservice.



Ask Indians here if they like to buy your stuff, Turkey is never a major weaponry exporter in the world at all.

This same Saudis didn't say anything about Kashmir or this saudis who payed much more to India rather than Pakistan? I don't know, it might be admirable for you. I disagree.
Forumers only moves with their personel opinions but the state of India? It is different.
https://www.taisshipyards.com/en/turkeys-tais-picked-for-indian-navy-fleet-support-ship-design

You see you underestimated us . Anyhow good to know that you realise that we are not babies and you are not a baby sitter. We will accept you as our brothers not our masters. Dont live in a LaLa land . Have fun.

Oh, I am not master of anything. We Turks don't like to behave like masters anyway. That's why for centuries people of Pakistan liked us more than their Indian cousins, remember? Thanks for your brotherhood.

 

[beijingwalker]

Many European countries, US, Arabs, now China, have asked us to step aside from supporting Turkey, but our heart can never do such a thing.

We never did, we are happy for Pakistna Turkey friendship, we only wish more countries join this friendship, we have disagreements with Turkish government, but it doesn't mean we don't like to see good relations between Pakistan and Turkey.

This same Saudis didn't say anything about Kashmir or this saudis who payed much more to India rather than Pakistan? I don't know, it might be admirable for you. I disagree.
Forumers only moves with their personel opinions but the state of India? It is different.
https://www.taisshipyards.com/en/turkeys-tais-picked-for-indian-navy-fleet-support-ship-design

I never denied Turkey offered a lot of lipservice, but a country can't be sold or saved by lipservice, it's good to have but it won't kill you if you don't. When some crisis that would kill hit Pakistan, we saw Saudis and UAE came for the rescue, we didn't see Turkey.

 

[Turan09]

We never did, we are happy for Pakistna Turkey friendship, we only wish more countries join this friendship, we have disagreements with Turkish government, but it doesn't mean we don't like to see good relations between Pakistan and Turkey.


I never denied Turkey offered a lot of lipservice, but a country can't be sold or saved by lipservice, it's good to have but it won't kill you if you don't. When some crisis that would kill hit Pakistan, we saw Saudis and UAE came for the rescue, we didn't see Turkey.

Well, it is funny when a chinese who didn't even save Pakistan from FATFA list says that... Like I said, we have different kind of perspectives. For you, pay as you wish, but don't talk, don't risk your trade with this country and you are a good ally.
Saudis has money, they also using Pakistanis for their protection in their army etc., it is a beneficial trade for Pakistan maybe. But of course, business is business.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...on-in-india/articleshow/71358978.cms?from=mdr

 

[Old School]

Pakistan used to have much closer relationship with Syria during the 60s and 70s where Pakistan played the role of a provider. Pakistani pilots flown Syrian Migs and actively took part in dog fights against IDF aircrafts with records of combat kills. The Navy and the Army were also sent to Syria for both combat and training missions. From the provider role, we have now become the guy who desperately wants to knock every door for assistance for the sake of brotherhood. What a fall ! Once other countries used to feek proud to be Pakistan's ally and now we have to use searchlights to find an ally.

 

[beijingwalker]

Well, it is funny when a chinese who didn't even save Pakistan from FATFA list says that...

We did our part in UN and UNSC, which you are not even entitled to vote, we never share your savior and master mentality over Pakistan, we are equal partners, Pakistan helped China alot when China was an international outcast and was disparaged by the international society in the past, we always remeber and appreicate their help.
And you should stop comparing your lipservice with China's mutual aids with Pakistan, we are maybe not the most generous, but still did it way more than you've ever done.

 

[Turan09]

We did our part in UN and UNSC, which you are not even entitled to vote, we never share your savior and master mentality over Pakistan, we are equal partners, Pakistan helped China alot when China was an international outcast and was disparaged by the international society in the past, we always remeber and appreicate their help.
And you should stop comparing your lipservice with China's mutual aids with Pakistan, we are maybe not the most generous, but still did it way more than you've ever done.

It was you who compared us, perhaps you should listen your own advice.
I would have believe in you and how you and your nation feel about Pakistanis, only if I wasn't aware of general chinese attitude against ''darker skinned races'' But anway cowboy, what ever you say. Everyone sure can see the truth if they so choose.