Are Iranians lying about the ”10 seconds reaction time”.

[VEVAK]

You can go 9:25 into this video and listen to Hajizadeh explain....

1.That particular unit it's self had repeatedly requested that all civilian traffic be cleared.
2.Orders came down to that particular unit that cruise missiles had been fired and were coming....
3.The unit attempt at communications to confirm target fail and had only 10 second to react so they assume the worst and fire....

In my opinion the unit did its job with the info they had meaning they were told and assumed that cruise missiles were coming their way and their com's for whatever reason couldn't get through in the time....

The main people at fault are the people that failed to ground all civilian flights!!! It's beyond idiotic to tell your Air Defense to assume Cruise Missiles were coming and at the same time still allow Civilian Aircraft to takeoff!!!!

 

[Philosopher]

Your comments can safely be ignored since they ignore the statement from the general which makes it crystal clear that the systems were not turned off.

You're trying to misportray what I have said. My comment is quite clear for anyone to see. I have not said the systems were turned "off". I have said we don't know when all these systems were put on FULL alert mode.

Furthermore, it's hilarious you try to use the generals statements in your argument, but refuse to accept his other point which is the 10 second comment.

A desperate pick and choose on your part I'd say.

The full topic is : Did Iran lie about the 10 second reaction time.
You want to make it a different topic, but that is not your decision.

Like I said, this topic is more bigger than the conspiracy theory you're coming up with. And yes, it is my decision.

Since you call actual calculations based on known facts assumptions and speculation, you are now on ignore. We have nothing else to discuss.

Don't make me laugh. There is zero "facts" anywhere in your claims that back your statement that the OFFICIAL claim by Iran is not true. Nothing but speculation based on your own assumptions. Numbers mean nothing if your whole argument is based on the wrong assumption. Try again.

The creation date of your account (Jan 5, 2020) is not helping your case.

What does the date of my account have to do with anything? Your comments are getting more juvenile by the second.

 

[VEVAK]

Your comments can safely be ignored since they ignore the statement from the general which makes it crystal clear that the systems were not turned off.

The full topic is : Did Iran lie about the 10 second reaction time.
You want to make it a different topic, but that is not your decision.

Since you call actual calculations based on known facts assumptions and speculation, you are now on ignore. We have nothing else to discuss.

The creation date of your account (Jan 5, 2020) is not helping your case.

No they didn't lie about the 10 second reaction time because if you look at the map the plane was flying directly towards where the unit was stationed at so since they were told that cruise missiles had been fired and looking at the rout of the plane they likely assumed that they were the targets...

Main people at fault are the people that failed to ground all civilian flights at a time when they were telling their Air Defense units to assume that cruise missiles were coming their way

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

No they didn't lie about the 10 second reaction time because if you look at the map the plane was flying directly towards where the unit was stationed at so since they were told that cruise missiles had been fired and looking at the rout of the plane they likely assumed that they were the targets...

Main people at fault are the people that failed to ground all civilian flights at a time when they were telling their Air Defense units to assume that cruise missiles were coming their way

As shown before, it would take more than 4 minutes for the flight to reach the base,
and the missile will reach its maximum range in about 16 seconds.
They could have waited for several minutes before firing.

 

[Philosopher]

As shown before, it would take more than 4 minutes for the flight to reach the base,
and the missile will reach its maximum range in about 16 seconds.
They could have waited for several minutes before firing.

What an absolutely ludicrous comment. What part of the plane was thought to be a cruise missile is hard for you to understand? Minutes???? They were going to let a potential cruise missile off for minutes before firing? Why are you on?

 

[VEVAK]

As shown before, it would take more than 4 minutes for the flight to reach the base,
and the missile will reach its maximum range in about 16 seconds.
They could have waited for several minutes before firing.

Where do get 4 min from??? If you were to assume the speed of the aircraft at 600kph that's 10km per min and the SA-15 missiles has a MAX range of 12km!!! So the Aircraft was well within that range! So your delusional 4 min assumption simply shows that you can't even do simple math!!! 4 min! LOL!

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Where do get 4 min from??? If you were to assume the speed of the aircraft at 600kph that's 10km per min and the SA-15 missiles has a MAX range of 12km!!! So the Aircraft was well within that range! So your delusional 4 min assumption simply shows that you can't even do simple math!!! 4 min! LOL!

We do not have to assume anything because from the last report by the ADS system we know that the flight had a ground speed of 275 kph. I have provided that info in screenshots in this thread.
The Iranian general claimed that the missile was fired from a base located 19 km from the impact point, 19/275*60 = ~4 minutes.
As you pointed out, the max range is 12 km, so the general was lying about the location of the missile launcher.
The detection range of the Tor M1 system is 25 km, so we are definitely talking about minutes of reaction time, but calculations in the links show that the operator fired less than a minute after detection, maybe as short as 10 seconds. The flight in itself was only 1-2 minutes before the missile hit. The leaves some real doubt that the operator did try to contact any superior officer.

 

[viewer]

Where do get 4 min from??? If you were to assume the speed of the aircraft at 600kph that's 10km per min and the SA-15 missiles has a MAX range of 12km!!! So the Aircraft was well within that range! So your delusional 4 min assumption simply shows that you can't even do simple math!!! 4 min! LOL!

sorry! but the detection range is not equal by Engagement range. they detected it before engagement range. they have more time than 10 sec. maximum detection range of Tor is 25 km. i am very sad.

 

[VEVAK]

sorry! but the detection range is not equal by Engagement range. they detected it before engagement range. they have more time than 10 sec. maximum detection range of Tor is 25 km. i am very sad.

Are you slow???? If the Tor unit assumed the target to be a cruise missile and the target was coming straight at them then for the unit who is assuming the this is a Cruise missiles coming straight at them they had 10 seconds to hit the target or be destroyed! So that's how much time they had left at the time they fired the missile not how much time they had prior to launch....

 

[Philosopher]

Are you slow???? If the Tor unit assumed the target to be a cruise missile and the target was coming straight at them then for the unit who is assuming the this is a Cruise missiles coming straight at them they had 10 seconds to hit the target or be destroyed! So that's how much time they had left at the time they fired the missile not how much time they had prior to launch....

I have already stated this, but either he is truly slow or he is pretending not to see the obvious.

 

[VEVAK]

We do not have to assume anything because from the last report by the ADS system we know that the flight had a ground speed of 275 kph. I have provided that info in screenshots in this thread.
The Iranian general claimed that the missile was fired from a base located 19 km from the impact point, 19/275*60 = ~4 minutes.
As you pointed out, the max range is 12 km, so the general was lying about the location of the missile launcher.
The detection range of the Tor M1 system is 25 km, so we are definitely talking about minutes of reaction time, but calculations in the links show that the operator fired less than a minute after detection, maybe as short as 10 seconds. The flight in itself was only 1-2 minutes before the missile hit. The leaves some real doubt that the operator did try to contact any superior officer.

SA-15 missiles have a MAX range of 12km!!!! And more likely than not they are NOT going to be fired at the missiles max range! And the detection range of 25km is only that, detection range not engagement range! The Unit was told that cruise missiles had been fired and where coming their way so on their limited range radar they see a target coming straight at them and ground speed is not the same as the actual speed of the aircraft so whether it's ascending or descending that number could change radically once in level flight and when your assuming that what coming at you is a cruise missiles that fly's at 800kph even if they engaged from 10km out, with the info they had they did so thinking that in under 20 seconds they could be dead!

As for the amount of time they had before that you can debate about how many minutes they did or didn't have however when the target gets close enough that a SA-15 can even reach them against a target that was coming straight at them they sure as hell couldn't assume they even had 30 seconds left before they were all dead let alone 4 minuets

 

[viewer]

Are you slow???? If the Tor unit assumed the target to be a cruise missile and the target was coming straight at them then for the unit who is assuming the this is a Cruise missiles coming straight at them they had 10 seconds to hit the target or be destroyed! So that's how much time they had left at the time they fired the missile not how much time they had prior to launch....

it seems you are slow !!! hajizadeh said that they had 10 sec for confirming target, when they could detect it before engagement range ( before they could hit it !!! ). why they simply did not ask for confirmation ? if there was continues communication problems, then time is not matter. they could not confirm the target even in 10 min, and saying we had only 10 sec is a bullshit.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

SA-15 missiles have a MAX range of 12km!!!! And more likely than not they are NOT going to be fired at the missiles max range! And the detection range of 25km is only that, detection range not engagement range! The Unit was told that cruise missiles had been fired and where coming their way so on their limited range radar they see a target coming straight at them and ground speed is not the same as the actual speed of the aircraft so whether it's ascending or descending that number could change radically once in level flight and when your assuming that what coming at you is a cruise missiles that fly's at 800kph even if they engaged from 10km out, with the info they had they did so thinking that in under 20 seconds they could be dead!

As for the amount of time they had before that you can debate about how many minutes they did or didn't have however when the target gets close enough that a SA-15 can even reach them against a target that was coming straight at them they sure as hell couldn't assume they even had 30 seconds left before they were all dead let alone 4 minuets

If a cruise missile flies at 800 kph and is detected 12 km away, it will take 54 seconds for the missile to reach the launcher.
If it is detected at the max detection range (25 km) the operator has 1 minute 52 seconds before the missile reaches the launcher.
If they believed that an 800 kph cruise missile could reach them in 10 seconds, they were simply incompetent, but the general did not say that they ”believed”.
He said that ”they had” which is simply not true.

 

[Philosopher]

We have already been through this! This notion that a defence operator could waits "minutes" when facing with what they were told is a cruise missile is simply ludicrous.

 

[VEVAK]

If a cruise missile flies at 800 kph and is detected 12 km away, it will take 54 seconds for the missile to reach the launcher.
If it is detected at the max detection range (25 km) the operator has 1 minute 52 seconds before the missile reaches the launcher.
If they believed that an 800 kph cruise missile could reach them in 10 seconds, they were simply incompetent, but the general did not say that they ”believed”.
He said that ”they had” which is simply not true.

Again it has NOTHING TO DO WITH DETECTION!!!!!!! And 12km is the SA-15 missiles MAX effective range but that doesn't mean the Unit fired their missiles at the missiles max range and more likely than not the missiles was fired from ~8km against a target their radar showed was coming straight at them so that's the amount of time they perceived to have left before they were dead!
So how much time the Unit had before firing the missiles is a completely different issue as is the detection range....

Again, if the unit was told that cruise missiles had been fired and was coming their way and with their limited range radar they saw a target coming straight at them that based in info given to them they perceived to be a cruise missile and every attempt to confirm target was unsuccessful and a target was coming straight at them fact is they had mere seconds before the target would go past the minimum engagement range of the system and they would be dead
Now you can argue that they actually had 20-25 seconds instead of 10 sec and that may be more accurate but they sure as hell did NOT have 1 min let alone 4 min and the truth is that in their mind they had mere seconds left at the time they fired the shot....

The MAIN people at fault in this tragic accident are the fools who failed to ground all civilian airliners and clear the airspace of all civilian traffic at a time that Iran's military was put at it's highest level of readiness (Iran's version of DEFCON 1).
Also, Iran needs to investigate to see based on what intel did they inform a SHORAD system near the capital that there was a cruise missiles coming their way. Also, why did requests made by that unit to clear the Air Space fall on deaf ears.....
And NO ONE should blame the unit that fired the shot! They did their job based on the information that was provided to them and Iran can't have it's Air Defense Units become hesitant for when there is a real attack!