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Are Indians and Iranians belong to the same race?

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Not an Indian, hell no. Prolly an Iranian from her name

Indian parsi.

Seemed wonky, so basically an Iranian, yes

If you go by that logic then there is zero difference between Indians and Iranians. It is called Indo-Iranian aryan race for a reason.

Haven't been Iranian for 1400 years.

Was talkin bout her genetics mate

Ginger bollocks

Do you know that the Parsi word "Ahura" in Avestan and the word "Asura" mentioned in Vedas are the same?

The Indo-Iranian split has been very well documented on both the sides.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/asura

Asura
HINDU MYTHOLOGY
WRITTEN BY:

LAST UPDATED: 2-16-2018 See Article History
Alternative Title: ahura
Asura, (Sanskrit: “divine”) Iranian ahura, in Hindu mythology, class of beings defined by their opposition to the devas or suras (gods). The term asura appears first in the Vedas, a collection of poems and hymns composed 1500–1200 BCE, and refers to a human or divine leader. Its plural form gradually predominated and came to designate a class of beings opposed to the Vedic gods. Later the asuras came to be understood as demons. This pattern was reversed in Iran, where ahura came to mean the supreme god and the daevas became demons. In Hindu mythology, the asuras and the devas together sought to obtain amrita (elixir of immortality) by churning the milky ocean. Although they had agreed to share the amrita, strife broke out over its possession, which led to a never-ending conflict.

130743-004-98B6BD2E.jpg

MahishasuraStatue of Mahishasura, a Hindu asura, Chamundi Hills, Mysore, India.Prakash Subbara

North Indians bear some semblance to them, yes

@Arefin007

Tribals existed in all parts of India not just South.

@AUSTERLITZ
 
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The Relationship of Vedic
Sanskrit and Avestan (Old Persian)

It is generally believed that the language that evolved into the Indo-European languages originated in the region in the vicinity of the Caspian Sea. There is some evidence that it arose as a result of the amalgamation of three tribes; one pastoral/militaristic, one agricultural and one metal-working. The metal workers provided the weapons for the militarists and tools for the agriculturalists. The militarists conquered areas for the agriculturalists to farm and feed the warriors and the metal-workers.

Some of the Indo-Europeans migrated into the Oxus River Valley and the Iranian Plateau. Others migrated to the north and west where their language evolved into the languages of Europe. Some went northeast where their language evolved into Tocharian. From Iran there were migrations into North India to the east and west into the Tigris-Euphrates River Valleys where they established the Mitanni Empire. Later there were migrations that accounted for the Scythians and Sarmations of Central Asia.

The migration into North India was, of course, the far most important of the migrations from Iran. The languages of Iran and North India underwent evolution so it was not immediately obvious that they were related. Thanks to the detailed preservation of the exact language of religious encantations and texts a comparison can be made. The religious tracts of Ancient Iran are known as the Avesta. Some of these are believed to have been composed by Zoroaster. The religious tracts of North India are the Vedas.

Grammatically there is little difference between the languages of the Avesta and the Vedas. Both languages underwent systematic phonetic change. However, according to Thomas-Burrow, in his book, The Sanskrit Language

It is quite possible to find verses in the oldest portion of the Avesta, which simply by phonetic substitutions according to established laws can be turned into intelligible Sanskrit.
The languages of the Avesta and the Vedas shared some vocabulary that is not shared with the other Indo-European languages. Some examples are shown below.



Word Sanskrit Avestan
gold hiranya zaranya
army séna haena
spear rsti arsti
sovereignty ksatra xsaθra
lord ásura ahura
sacrifice yajñá yasna
sacrificing
priest hótar zaotar
sacrificing
drink sóma haoma
member of
religious
community aryamán airyaman
god devá daeva

In the field of religion there are some interesting contrasts. Words such as devá have the meaning of god in the Vedas have the meaning of devil in the Avesta. Likewise some names for Vedic gods show up in the Avesta as evil spirits. This is likely due to the ancestors of the migrants to North India being a competing tribe of the tribe responsible for the creation of the Avesta.
 
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http://varnam.nationalinterest.in/2007/01/avesta_and_rig_veda/

Avesta and Rig Veda

by Jk on JANUARY 15, 2007 in HISTORY: BEFORE 1 CE
The Acorn recently had a post on the divergence of Persian and Indian cultures over values suggesting that Persians went for morals while Indians went for might. He quotes Rajesh Kochhar’s observations on the similarities between Avesta, the sacred texts of Zoroastrianism and Rig Veda. In this context it will be useful to see the relation between Avesta, Avestan, Rig-Veda, and dates of all of them.

The Backstory

In 1786, Sir William Jones, a British judge in Calcutta noticed that there were striking similarities in the vocabulary and grammar of Sanskrit, Persian, Greek, Latin, Celtic and Gothic. This discovery resulted in the creation of a new field called comparative linguistics which led scholars to believe that all these languages were derived from a pre-Indo-European language which had its origins somewhere in Northern Europe, Central Asia, Southern Russia or basically anywhere-but-India.

According to Romila Thapar, Indo-European speakers had central Asia as their habitat and gradually over many centuries they branched out in search of fresh pastures. According to her, it is these central Asian migrants who wrote the Avesta in Iran and Rig-Veda in India. According to Thapar there is an argument that people who migrated to India were dissidents of the Old Iranian, hence you find a significant reversal of meaning in concepts common to both Avesta and Rig-Veda.


Similarities

There are lot of familiar names in Avesta from the Rig-Veda and one of the first references comes not from India or Persia, but from northern Syria. A treaty signed by the Hittites and Mitannis dating to the fourteenth century BC calls upon Indara/Indra, Mitras(il)/Mitra, Nasatianna/Nasatya and Uruvanass(il)/Varuna, all known to Rig-Veda and Avesta.

There were similarities in rituals too. In India, upanayana is a ritual by which a boy becomes a full member of his class. Zoroastrians have a similar ceremony called Navjot which is still practiced by Parsis. The Rig-Veda refers to the drink soma which was drunk at sacrifices and which caused invigorating effects. The Avesta gives physical descriptions of the plant haoma which causes similar effects, though the plant identified as haoma by modern Parsis is a bitter herb which does not get your drunk, but just bitter.

Even though there are similar words like haoma (soma), daha(dasa), hepta (sapta), hindu (sindhu), and Ahura (Asura) in Avesta and Rig-Veda, there are reversals in religious concepts and attributes of Gods. Indra and the devas are demonic in Avesta,and Ahura/asura is considered the highest deity.

At the time of composition of the Vedas, Varuna was losing his importance to Indra. In Avesta, Ahura Mazda is the main divinity and some people think that he is the same as Varuna. Varuna sat with his spies who flew all around the world and bought back reports on the conduct of mortals. He abhorred sin and loathed evil deeds prompted by anger, drink and gambling.

Dates of Avesta and Rig Veda

The answer depends on whom you ask. According to Thapar, the date of Avesta has been controversial, but a mid-second millennium date is now being accepted. Thapar considers the the Hittite-Mittani treaty as more archaic than the Sanskrit of Rig-Vedaand hence dates Rig-Veda to be of a date closer to the language and concept of Avesta.

Like the Rig-Veda, the texts of Avesta were collated over several hundred years and have been dated linguistically to around 1000 BCE. Avesta texts are thought to been transmitted orally for centuries before they were written down and so it is hard to put a date to it.

In their book In Search of the Cradle of Civilization Georg Fuerstein, Subhash Kak and David Frawley dismiss the dates suggested by Thapar, A. L. Basham and Max Muller. According to them, the Rig Veda mentions the river Saraswati which disappeared in 1900 BCE and so it has to be at least eight centuries older than the Max Muller’s arbitrary date of 1200 BC. Vedic literature is considered older than Avestan literature by 500 – 1000 years though the dating of both is speculative.

The Mittani Indo-Aryan language is considered older than Vedic or Avestan because it has aika instead of eka. Vedic is supposed to to have merged ai to e and hence is considered younger. But if you take the word for seven in Mittani – satta, it is considered to be much later than Vedic. So some folks believe that this dating based on selectively chosen words cannot be trusted fully.

If you look at the Avestan and Vedic language you see that ‘h’ in one language has been renamed as ‘s’ in another. There are people like Rajesh Kochchar and Romila Thapar who believe that the Vedic people migrated from the Haraxvati (Saraswati) region in Afghanistan and not the mythical Saraswati flowing underground through Rajasthan. It seems this replacing ‘s’ with ‘h’ is prevalent in some parts of Rajasthan and Assam even today. One point of view is that it is not possible to find which one came first based on language traits.

References: Early India by Romila Thapar, The Wonder That Was India
ir
by A. L. Basham. See Also: Avestan and Vedic

Avestan is the oldest known form of the languages in the Iranian part of the Indo-Iranian language family, part of the Indo-European language family. Avestan is named for the Zend Avesta, the sacred scriptures of the Zoroastrians in which it appears. The early form of Avestan is so similar to Vedic Sanskrit that the main difference between them is the alphabet in which they are written, and the shift of s to h in Avestan. This similarity means that they date to a similar time, although both languages could have been used for later compositions (Sanskrit still is). The composition of the Avestan scriptures was once held to have been in about 587 BCE, the date of the earliest inscriptions of the Persian kings. This date was also the date set for the time of Zarathustra but it was based on attempts to equate the dates of real world events with the legendary history of the Old Testament of the Bible. This incorrect assumption caused the dates of these compositions to be dragged forward so that they have traditionally been dated much too recently by western scholars. Hopefully as archaeologists and historians get a better understanding of actual history, they can date these compositions better.

ahuramazda.jpg
Although Sanskrit and Avestan are essentially the same language, the religions of Avestan and Sanskrit are so different that it is easier to treat them as separate entities. Zoroastrianism, the religion that is associated with the Iranian branch of the language family, has a number of features that make it different from the standard Religion of the Indo-European-speaking people. One of the differences between them is the division of the original pantheonof Indo-European deities into two groups: the Ashuras, or deities of the Sun versus the Devis with Indra, deities associated with grain fields and the moon. This division is referred to as the Pandemonium, since the Sanskrit speakers demonized all or most of the Gods of the Zoroastrians and the Avestan speakers demonized all or most of the Gods of the Sanskrit speakers. [fuggle26]

Table of Contents
Iranian Language Family
Brief Timeline and Geography
Zoroastrian Religion
Pantheon
Mage Priesthood (Magi)
Myths
Rituals
Calendars
References
An Old Persian Administrative Tablet by Matthew Stolper and Jan Tavernier, which is a pdf file and takes a while to download. At Persepolis, over 30,000 cuneiform tablets or fragments have been found, but many have not been published because of Islamic hostility toward the older culture. The Persians used mainly Elamite and Aramaic (Syriac) language and writing for administrative purposes.
  • 330 BCE, Alexander of Macedon conquered Persia and introduced some Greek ideas: coinage, political organization, and alphabetical writing on papyrus
  • 1st millennium BCE to the present (especially c. 200 BCE-200 CE). The Scythians, Khotanese (known as Kushan kings in the west and Saka kings in India) and the Ossetes, are often grouped together but this is not very accurate.
    • Scythians are referred to in ancient literature (e.g. Herodotus, Roman classical sources, medieval Al-Bîrûnî), but they are not usually linguistically identifiable and probably do not represent an ethnic unity.
    • Saka or Kushan kings are known from references and a few coins with inscriptions throughout Gandarva (Afghanistan), and the Indus River valley from about 200 BCE -200 CE.
    • Khotanese is known from manuscripts of around 1000 CE, mostly Buddhist texts.
    • Ossetic first became known in the west through travelers’ tales and eventually folklorists in the 1800’s. The folklore and religion have been published mainly in Russian sources.
  • 247 BCE to 226 CE, Parthian Arsacids in Armenia, with a coinage that shows an archer in a square. Because they used papyrus for writing, after the Greek manner, literary texts have not survived.
  • 224 CE - 651 CE, Sassanian kings, Zoroastrians, and the Mandean religion with music singing the praises of King Khosrau
  • 4th to 8th CE, Sogdians, with Bactrians to the north, important cultures at the time of the Silk Road, but eventually forced into Islamic conversion.
  • 5th CE, White Huns or Hephthalites invade
  • 651 CE, Muslim destruction of Baghdad, forced conversions of Zoroastrians in many areas. By 1000 CE, some moved to India.
  • 1100 CE, Shah Namah composed in Persian by Firdausi, continues Indo-European Gods and myths, but historicized in accordance with Islamic belief.
  • c. 1200 CE Al-Bîrûnî wrote Athar-ul-Bakiya or the Chronology of Ancient Nations
  • 14th century CE, oldest actual manuscripts in the Avestan language. Along with the rest of the main Zoroastrian scriptures, these were produced in India.
Geography
The geographic range of the Zoroastrian religion has often varied widely from the range of the Iranian family of languages. Zoroastrianism was the dominant religion or has strongly affected the religions of speakers of other language groups including the Germanic speakers, the Armenians, the Albanians, and possibly Jews and Arabs (considering both groups as speakers of Semitic languages as well as monotheists). It is sometimes said that Zoroastrianism affected the Slavic version of Indo-European Paganism, at least through the influence of some Asian groups such as the Tatars who ruled large sections of Russia for centuries, but this does not appear to be the case. Slavic speakers in the west maintained a fairly standard Indo-European Paganism as a folk religion. On the other hand, many speakers of Iranian languages were followers of a wide variety of religions, including Manicheanism, Mandeanism, Gnosticism, Christianity, Buddhism, Islam and traditional Indo-European Paganism. *Aeusos although somewhat modified
• Arta-Vahista ‘Righteousness, Order of Things, Truth’ later Ardibehest. This name is given as Asha-Vahista in published sources, but the Zoroastrians call her Arta-Vahista in their prayers
• Vohu-Manô, later called Bahman
• Khshathrya-vairya, later Shahrêvar, male, representing domestic animals
• Spenta-Ârmaiti, later Spendârmat, female, representing the earth
• Haurvatât, later Khordâd, female, representing waters
• Ameretât, later Murdâd, female, representing plants

Yazatas
The Yazatas are replacement deities in later forms of Zoroastrianism. Zarathustra demonized a number of the Proto-Indo-European Gods and Goddesses including Indra, Durga, and the Devis. Understanding this Pandemonium is essential for clear insight into the religion of the Zoroastrians and the Proto-Indo-European religion among each of the language groups. Eventually the deities of the Proto-Indo-Europeans reappear among the Zoroastrians, either because they were felt to be needed or because Zoroastrianism did not take hold fully everywhere. This is apparent as early as the Persian king Artaxerxes, who is named after Arta, his favorite Goddess. The name of the Yazatas is interpreted as “those that ought to be praised” though the word is cognate with Devtas or Deities. They include the sun, moon, stars, hearth fire, cow(s), wind, earth and waters or rivers. The Yazatas appear in the Yashts, later Zoroastrian hymns of praise, some of them with narratives which correspond to the myths of the other Indo-Europeans. Many Zoroastrian deities can be equated with the Proto-Indo-European deities according to their characteristics but the names do not correspond exactly. For example *Pria is replaced by Anahita and *Durga is replaced by Drvaspa. The displacement and replacement of various Proto-Indo-European Gods by Zoroastrian deities caused many changes in the pantheon, but the changes can be reconstructed.

Some of the major Yazatas (later called Yazads, or Izads) include:
• Mithra, later form of name, Mihr, (later identified with the sun in Roman religion, e.g. Mithras)
• Anahita ‘night’ with later forms Anahid and Nahid
• Drvaspa, protector of horses
• Yima Kshaita, the first mortal and a Culture God, later Jamshid and eventually Jems, described in more detail in the article about *Yama.
• Mâhya, the Moon, later Mâh
• Parandi ‘Plenitude’ see *Pleto
• Vâta ‘wind’ later form of name Bâd
• Zemyâd ‘Earth’
Eventually Zarathustra himself was raised to divine status.

Zoroastrians also acknowledge the power of some bad deities (demons), but they do not offer them worship or praise. Among them are Angra Mainu, later Ahriman; Drug ‘deceit’; and the Daevas, later called Divs, who are devils or demons, see *Devi.

Images
The Zoroastrians seem to have been iconoclastic, since there are hardly any images of their deities, although there doesn’t seem to be any specific statement prohibiting their representation. One exception is that Artaxerxes had images of Anahita made and distributed and there is a relief at Naqsh-i-Rustam which represents Anahita investing King Narse with a beribboned ring, a sign of kingship. Another image of Anahita appears at Taq-i-Bostan where she carries a water jug. Little clay images of her are known from archaeological digs north of the Black Sea. Some of the Zoroastrian deities, including Ahura Mazda and the Yazatas eventually appear on Kushan coins where they may have contributed to Indian religion and iconography and subsequently Hindu religion.

The Zoroastrian God Mitra was picked up by Roman soldiers and widely worshiped as Mithras in the Roman world with many images of him, however this really has nothing to do with Zoroastrianism. Zoroastrian deities were also absorbed by the Armenians and were still worshiped by them in some out of the way places until recently. They also have a place in the folklore of many groups including Armenians (even among those that were christianized), and speakers of Persian and Arabic, even among Muslims. It seems that some Zoroastrian ideas, especially eschatology (“end of the world” = Ragnarok) and the Pandemonium were absorbed by Germanic-speaking people in the area around the Black Sea and then transferred to the northwest of Europe. Catholic fascism, one of the schools of thought that still has a major place in studies of Proto-Indo-European religion, although it is hard to believe that most modern Indo-European linguists actually support this sort of a social agenda. Indo-European myths can be found in some form in the ancient stories of the Zoroastrians, which are sometimes told in the intermediate literature known as the Yashts. While these function as hymns of praise, they sometimes include narratives. The typical example is the Creation Myth of the Indo-Europeans which has been referred to many times because it is the Indo-European myth that has been most widely recognized by other Indo-European linguists, of those for which there is some actual evidence. Some Zoroastrian myths found their way into medieval romances, such as the Shah Namah, composed by Firdausi in 1100 CE. The earliest part of this text is supposed to be a history of the kings of Persia, but it is actually a reprise of many ancient Indo-European myths in the form of legends and pseudo-histories. See Shah Namah in the references for the link and published sources. Encyclopaedia Iranica gives a coherent explanation of the various Zoroastrian calendars.

Gahambars
There are seven major seasonal feasts called gahambars which are celebrated by the Zoroastrians. These names do not fit with their present position in the solar year. The festivals are:
Maidyozaren Gahambar (‘mid-spring’ feast)
Maidyoshahem Gahambar (‘mid-summer’ feast)
Paitishahem Gahambar (feast of ‘bringing in the harvest’) in late summer
Ayathrem Gahambar (‘bringing home the herds’) in the fall
Maidyarem Gahambar (‘mid-year’) winter feast
Hamaspathmaidyem Gahambar (feast of ‘all souls’ literally ‘coming of the whole group’) which falls in February or March, preceding the New Year by as many days as it is celebrated
Nov Ruz (‘New Year’) or Ashura is the Seventh Festival and now falls on the spring equinox. It is celebrated by Zoroastrians as a festival dedicated to Ahura Mazda and by Muslims in Iran as a secular holiday. A little information is given about the traditional menu for the Gahambar at Ashura and these are very delicious foods.

Ashura is also the name for the New Year in the Islamic calendar but since that calendar is strictly lunar, the Ashura festival rolls through the year, falling in a different month each year. Gahambars are “festivals of obligation” among Zoroastrians, meaning that everyone must attend. The word ashura is also used in a number of countries for a council of elders although this excludes women in Muslim countries.

Islamicization and Christianization
Zoroastrianism was absorbed into Islam especially among Persian speakers, where it strongly affects the Shiite religion. Some Zoroastrian customs remain such as the celebration of Nov Ruz, the festival of the sun at the spring equinox, although modern Persian Muslims celebrate this as a picnic. Some other elements of Zoroastrianism that were absorbed into Islam are described at the blog No Country for Women on the topic ofPagan Arab Festivals by Taslima Nasreen. In addition, the star Sirius was worshiped as a protective deity by the Zoroastrians; it later became the angel Sraosh in Muslim folklore. As noted before, the Zoroastrian deities were historicized as early legendary kings of the Persians; some modern Persians persist in believing that they actually were kings and that this heightens the glory of Persian history.

Zoroastrianism was also christianized and many Zoroastrian Gods and Goddesses became Pagan saints in the Syriac Christian church, and from there they spread to both the Greek Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church. The Mage priests were christianized as the Three Magi (the Three Kings), based loosely on the single reference to the Magi in the Bible (Matthew 2:1-12). The Magi are supposed to have been present at the birth of one of the Christian Gods, however they are mainly christianized forms of the Matronae, important Pagan Goddesses in the area around Cologne, whom we would generally recognize as Norns. During the Middle Ages they became an important object of Christian cult with Twelfth Night (Jan. 6th) as their feast day.

Conclusion
This webpage is meant to give some information about the history of Zoroastrianism because it is important for the understanding of the Proto-Indo-European religion, the topic that I am studying. It is not intended as a complete or in depth presentation of modern Zoroastrianism and the views expressed are my own.

Zoroastrianism has a small number of adherents at this time, but it is probably the major source of the ideas that characterize the monotheistic religions. It also has contributed in many large and small ways to many cultures. The Zoroastrian religion continues today and the members are often well educated and use the Internet extensively. For any descriptions of their beliefs, customs or traditions, it is always possible to google it, or to ask on a forum dedicated to that topic, because they are active on the internet

http://piereligion.org/avestan.html
 
. . .
Fact check: India wasn't the first place Sanskrit was recorded – it was Syria
As the Narendra Modi government celebrates Sanskrit, a look at the oldest known speakers of the language: the Mitanni people of Syria.
d4cf6050-bfcb-4731-ba63-16c2702a7ba0.jpg

Creative Commons
Shoaib Daniyal
After yoga, Narendra Modi has turned his soft power focus to Sanskrit. The Indian government is enthusiastically participating in the 16th World Sanskrit Conference in Bangkok. Not only is it sending 250 Sanskrit scholars and partly funding the event, the conference will see the participation of two senior cabinet ministers: External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj, who inaugurated the conference on Sunday, and Human Resource Development Minister Smriti Irani, who will attend its closing ceremony on July 2. Inexplicably, Swaraj also announced the creation of the post of Joint Secretary for Sanskrit in the Ministry of External Affairs. How an ancient language, which no one speaks, writes or reads, will help promote India’s affairs abroad remains to be seen.

On the domestic front, though, the uses of Sanskrit are clear: it is a signal of the cultural nationalism of the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party. Sanskrit is the liturgical language of Hinduism, so sacred that lower castes (more than 75% of modern Hindus) weren’t even allowed to listen to it being recited. Celebrating Sanskrit does little to add to India’s linguistic skills – far from teaching an ancient language, India is still to get all its people educated in their modern mother tongues. But it does help the BJP push its own brand of hyper-nationalism.

Unfortunately, reality is often a lot more complex than simplistic nationalist myths. While Sanskrit is a marker of Hindu nationalism for the BJP, it might be surprised, even shocked, to know that the first people to leave behind evidence of having spoken Sanskrit aren't Hindus or Indians – they were Syrians.

The Syrian speakers of Sanskrit

The earliest form of Sanskrit is that used in the Rig Veda (called Old Indic or Rigvedic Sanskrit). Amazingly, Rigvedic Sanskrit was first recorded in inscriptions found not on the plains of India but in in what is now northern Syria.

Between 1500 and 1350 BC, a dynasty called the Mitanni ruled over the upper Euphrates-Tigris basin, land that corresponds to what are now the countries of Syria, Iraq, and Turkey. The Mitannis spoke a language called Hurrian, unrelated to Sanskrit. However, each and every Mitanni king had a Sanskrit name and so did many of the local elites. Names includePurusa (meaning “man”), Tusratta (“having an attacking chariot”), Suvardata (“given by the heavens”), Indrota (“helped by Indra”) and Subandhu, a name that exists till today in India.

Imagine that: the irritating, snot-nosed Subandhu from school shares his name with an ancient Middle Eastern prince. Goosebumps. (Sorry, Subandhu).

The Mitanni had a culture, which, like the Vedic people, highly revered chariot warfare. A Mitanni horse-training manual, the oldest such document in the world, uses a number of Sanskrit words: aika (one), tera (three), satta (seven) and asua (ashva, meaning “horse”). Moreover, the Mitanni military aristocracy was composed of chariot warriors called “maryanna”, from the Sanskrit word "marya", meaning “young man”.

The Mitanni worshipped the same gods as those in the Rig Veda (but also had their own local ones). They signed a treaty with a rival king in 1380 BC which names Indra, Varuna, Mitra and the Nasatyas (Ashvins) as divine witnesses for the Mitannis. While modern-day Hindus have mostly stopped the worship of these deities, these Mitanni gods were also the most important gods in the Rig Veda.

This is a striking fact. As David Anthony points out in his book, The Horse, the Wheel, and Language, this means that not only did Rigvedic Sanskrit predate the compilation of the Rig Veda in northwestern India but even the “central religious pantheon and moral beliefs enshrined in the Rig Veda existed equally early”.

How did Sanskrit reach Syria before India?

What explains this amazing fact? Were PN Oak and his kooky Hindutva histories right? Was the whole world Hindu once upon a time? Was the Kaaba in Mecca once a Shivling?

Unfortunately, the history behind this is far more prosaic.

The founding language of the family from which Sanskrit is from is called Proto-Indo-European. Its daughter is a language called Proto-Indo-Iranian, so called because it is the origin of the languages of North India and Iran (linguists aren’t that good with catchy language names).

The, well, encyclopedic, Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture, edited by JP Mallory and DQ Adams, writes of the earliest speakers of Proto-Indo-Iranian emerging in the southern Urals and Kazakhstan. These steppe people, representing what is called the Andronovo culture, first appear just before 2000 BC.

From this Central Asian homeland diverged a group of people who had now stopped speaking Proto-Indo-Iranian and were now conversing in the earliest forms of Sanskrit. Some of these people moved west towards what is now Syria and some east towards the region of the Punjab in India.

David Anthony writes that the people who moved west were possibly employed as mercenary charioteers by the Hurrian kings of Syria. These charioteers spoke the same language and recited the same hymns that would later on be complied into the Rig Veda by their comrades who had ventured east.

These Rigvedic Sanskrit speakers usurped the throne of their employers and founded the Mitanni kingdom. While they gained a kingdom, the Mitanni soon lost their culture, adopting the local Hurrian language and religion. However, royal names, some technical words related to chariotry and of course the gods Indra, Varuna, Mitra and the Nasatyas stayed on.

The group that went east and later on composed the Rig Veda, we know, had better luck in preserving their culture. The language and religion they bought to the subcontinent took root. So much so that 3,500 years later, modern Indians would celebrate the language of these ancient pastoral nomads all the way out in Bangkok city.

Hindutvaising Sanskrit’s rich history

Unfortunately, while their language, religion and culture is celebrated, the history of the Indo-European people who brought Sanskrit into the subcontinent is sought to be erased at the altar of cultural nationalism. Popular national myths in India urgently paint Sanskrit as completely indigenous to India. This is critical given how the dominant Hindutva ideology treats geographical indigenousness as a prerequisite for nationality. If Sanskrit, the liturgical language of Hinduism, has a history that predates its arrival in India, that really does pull the rug from out under the feet of Hindutva.

Ironically, twin country Pakistan’s national myths go in the exact opposite direction: their of-kilter Islamists attempt to make foreign Arabs into founding fathers and completely deny their subcontinental roots.

Both national myths, whether Arab or Sanskrit, attempt to imagine a pure, pristine origin culture uncontaminated by unsavoury influences. Unfortunately the real world is very often messier than myth. Pakistanis are not Arabs and, as the Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture rather bluntly puts it: “This theory [that Sanskrit and its ancestor Proto-Indo-European was indigenous to India], which resurrects some of the earliest speculations on the origins of the Indo-Europeans, has not a shred of supporting evidence, either linguistic or archeological”.

We welcome your comments at letters@scroll.in.

https://scroll.in/article/737715/fa...irst-place-sanskrit-was-recorded-it-was-syria

Among the cuneiform tablets found in the ancient Near East and the adjacent areas, the literary
genre of the Hittite instructions for the training of chariot horses has become—as Johannes A.
POTRATZ (1963, 181) noted—“something of a legend” in Hittitology including related philological
and linguistic disciplines as well as Near Eastern Archaeology and Egyptology. Together
with the Middle-Assyrian instructions on horse training from Aššur (EBELING 1951) we are provided
with relatively rare first hand information about certain aspects on how training concepts
of chariot horses in the second half of the 2nd millennium have been composed, structured and
archived by the Hittite and Middle Assyrian scribes.
Examining the history of editions and studies on the so-called “Hittite Horse Texts”—written in
the Hittite language on clay tablets using Hittite cuneiform signs—we are confronted with two
developments in the history of research. Firstly, although studies on Kikkuli Text have been published
(FORRER 1922; HROZNÝ 1931) within a relatively short time span, it took over 30 years
before all Hittite Horse Texts available from 1906/07 until 1938 were presented in a single monograph.
Secondly, nearly all of the basic text editions of the Hittite cuneiform tablets in KUB
and KBo as well as most of the philological, linguistic and hippological comments and monographs
are published in German for an academic audience familiar with peoples, languages,
history and conventions to render cuneiform sign as well as termini technici from other languages
such as Sumerian, Akkadian, Hittite or Old Indic (Vedic) [see chapter 4].

4. LANGUAGES USED TO COMPOSE THE KIKKULI-TEXT
Vocabulary and syntax used in the Kikkuli Text give us an impression of the collaboration of the
Hurrian horse trainers with their Hittite colleagues. Following KAMMENHUBER, who studied all
original cuneiform texts and fragments of Kikkuli, tablets I–IV of TRAINING INSTRUCTION I belong
together and form one unit of training instructions. It also seems that each tablet of the Kikkuli
Text was written by a different individual Hurrian speaking scribe. The scribe of Tablet I
shows the most “pedantic and solid knowledge of Hittite”. The scribe of Tablet II offers the most
variants of grammatical expressions (but also contains the most peculiar grammatical and linguistic
errors). Tablet III was written by a meticulous scribe who, as KAMMENHUBER pointed
out, “has not been blessed with sufficient knowledge of Hittite”. Finally, tablet IV, was written
by a scribe who was neither meticulous nor demonstrated sufficient knowledge of Hittite. The
Mittani-Hurrian horse trainers and their Hittite colleagues used common terms as well as special
hippological termini technici from different languages such as Sumerian, Akkadian, Hittite,
Luvian, Hurrian and Indo-Aryan in the ancient Near East. Before we go deeper into the literary
genre of the Hittite Horse Trainings Texts, it seems worthwhile for an interdisciplinary readership
to briefly explain the languages used in the Hittite Horse Texts.
Sumerian, a linguistically isolated language of which no directly related language survived,
was spoken in southern Babylonia (Sumer) in modern Iraq until the end of the 3rd or the beginning
of the 2nd millennium BCE. Sumerian became extinct around the mid-2nd millennium BCE
(STRUCK 2005; WOODARD 2008). Its use was restricted to formal contexts, especially in religious,
scientific and literary texts until the 1st century BCE as also the Sumerian terms in the Hittite
Horse Texts demonstrate. Sumerian as spoken language was replaced by Akkadian (named
after Akkad in southern Iraq), an overarching term to denote eastern Semitic languages such as
Assyrian and Babylonian from ca. 2300 BCE until the end of the 1st century BCE. Hurrian,
linguistically not related to Sumerian and Akkadian, is attested in the ancient Near East from ca.
2300 BCE to around 1000 BCE. Hurrian became the spoken and written language of the kingdom
of Mittani, a powerful state emerging in northern Syria from approximately the middle of
the 2nd millennium BCE until ca. 1300 BCE (WEGNER 2000). Letters in Hurrian from the Mittani
king Tušratta, who bears an Indo-Aryan throne name (RAULWING/CLUTTON-BROCK 2009,
69 ff. with fn. 256), to the Egyptian Pharaoh in the late 14th century BCE survived in the archive
of Tell el-Amarna in Egypt (MORAN 1992, 41 ff. esp. 63 ff.). Although the spoken language in
the Mittani kingdom was Hurrian, a few termini technici belonging an Indo-European language
named Indo-Aryan is documented in the ancient Near East in cuneiform records from Ḫattuša,
© Peter Raulwing 12 December 2009
7
Meskene, Maşat Höyük, Nuzi (the land of Arrapḫa), Alalaḫ, Ugarit as well as in other archives
and Egyptian sources of the New Kingdom. The Mittanian capital aššukkanni (with its royal
cuneiform archive, as can be assumed) could not be localised geographically yet. The terms Indo-
European and Indo-Aryan were coined by modern scholars in the early 19th and early
20th century AD in lack of the absence of genuine terms (FORTSON 2004; KOERNER 1981[82];
WIESEHÖFER 1990). Due to certain linguistic developments, Indo-Aryan represents an older dialect
than the oldest Sanskrit (Vedic). Indo-Aryan as attested in the ancient Near East and Vedic
must have been separated before the 16th century B.C. which can serve as a terminus ante
quem for that separation. However, Indo-Aryan has neither been introduced from India into the
ancient Near East nor has it ever reached India from the ancient Near East; it rather reached the
eastern Mediterranean areas in connection with the migration of the Hurrians (for an introductory
overview see WILHELM 1989; 1995; KÜHNE 1999). Furthermore, it was not spoken as “a living
language” at the time when the (lost) original of the Kikkuli Text has been written, as Johannes
FRIEDRICH (1893–1972) pointed out over 80 years ago (1928, 148). In this context, the expression
was coined, that the Indo-Aryan termini technici in the Kikkuli Text have been “piously
handed down as fossils” (KAMMENHUBER 1968, 18; 1993, 788). The terms “Indo-Aryan” and
“Indo-Aryans” are used in this study exclusively within their linguistic definition (MAYRHOFER
1966; 1974; 1982; 2007 and WIESEHÖFER 1990). Hittite is the earliest Indo-European language
attested in written records in the Asia Minor around the turn of the 3rd and the 2nd millennium
BCE (FORTSON 2004, 158 ff.;). Together with its sister language Luvian (FORTSON 2004, 167
ff.) Hittite belongs to the Anatolian branch of the Indo-European language family. Hittite and
Luvian did, as many other languages in the ancient Near East, not survive the end of the Bronze
Age.

http://www.lrgaf.org/Peter_Raulwing_The_Kikkuli_Text_MasterFile_Dec_2009.pdf
 
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That is a thing north Indian have. They follow light skinned actors while the average skin color and even facial features are no where near what they portray. The casty society has high castes who may have sharper features and fairer color.

This is Madhya Pradesh, so called part of north India. The people looks like they are from northern Karnataka or Hyderabad. Same is true with Maharashtra, Gujarat, Chattisgarh, Rajasthan and most other states. Even the average Punjabi Sardar trucker I see are generally Kaaley..the most hated color by Pakistanis and Punjabi-Kashmiri Indians.
 
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