Has the Pakistani army given up defending it's people?

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The difference between India and Pakistan can be summed up in these two rows on literacy rates

India

1951			18.33
1961			28.3

Pakistan

1951			16.3
1961			16.2

Pakistan has never caught up

Yep absolutely.

Also, no investment in upskilling Pakistanis.

Sure, at the start there may not be enough places within Pakistan to absorb the talent, but its continual availability will eventually bear fruits. So, if I had an able labor force, a Pakistani investor could at least use it to start producing auto parts at home and, with time, compete to enter Toyota's global supply chain. That'd drive both exports and also reduce our foreign currency outflows (by substituting foreign parts with local ones).

That said, in the years before that point, we could have had Pakistanis getting employed overseas as skilled workers (much like Indians did through the 1980s and 1990s). So that could've helped with building soft power, investment linkages, and so on.

One thing I realized with Pakistani leaders, especially military and pro-military types, is the lack of big-picture thinking. I'm not talking about bullsh!t ISPR big picture thinking, but big picture from the standpoint of nation-building. Not one of them saw the value of Tejas, for example. They all called it a samosa jet, yet completely missed how the project helped India build domestic expertise on flight controls, composites, aerospace design, etc. In turn, that expertise (i.e., labor, R&D centers, facilities, etc) helped them absorb lucrative offset deals with Lockheed Martin and Boeing which, in turn, grew their aerospace exports (e.g., supplying Apache fuselages). And now, that expertise is rolling into the ORCA/TEBDF and AMCA.

 

[nahtanbob]

Yep absolutely. Also, no investment in upskilling Pakistanis. Sure, at the start there may not be enough places within Pakistan to absorb the talent, but its continual availability will eventually bear fruits. So, if I had an able labor force, a Pakistani investor could at least use it to start producing auto parts at home and, with time, compete to enter Toyota's global supply chain. That'd drive both exports and also reduce our foreign currency outflows (by substituting foreign parts with local ones). That said, in the years before that point, we could have had Pakistanis getting employed overseas as skilled workers (much like Indians did through the 1980s and 1990s). So that could've helped with building soft power, investment linkages, and so on.

You do not get educated just to make more money. There are plenty of other reasons to be educated

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

You do not get educated just to make more money. There are plenty of other reasons to be educated

That's for the individual, but for the government, their responsibility is to ensure societal wellbeing. For a third-world country like Pakistan, economic development is the primary goal for it ties deeply into poverty alleviation. So, investing in up-skilling the population so that they can seek valuable jobs overseas and also make Pakistan competitive for FDI across in-demand sectors is critical.

 

[nahtanbob]

That's for the individual, but for the government, their responsibility is to ensure societal wellbeing. For a third-world country like Pakistan, economic development is the primary goal for it ties deeply into poverty alleviation. So, investing in up-skilling the population so that they can seek valuable jobs overseas and also make Pakistan competitive for FDI across in-demand sectors is critical.

In general if people were educated they would not be voting for the corrupt politicians a lot of PDFers claim to hate

 

[AA_]

I believe the title of this thread is a bit harsh.

There are several sectors along LOC where Indians look right into our necks. And then are others where is the other way around. Present ROE is very much clear to both sides. If they have opened fire at a sector where they are dominating geographically, it's always answered with immediate retaliation in those sectors where we are at the top.

And then, response from Pak army doesn't get always through to the media or Twitter. If that were the case, every days news would be full of LOC only.

So why don’t you start entering the 23rd century and have an English speaking dedicated media wing that doesnt use 90s style nationalistic songs to get their point across. I really hope the Iranians do a number on the GHQ. Go ahead and give me a negative rating. I’ll continue to speak out the uncomfortable truth

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

In general if people were educated they would not be voting for the corrupt politicians a lot of PDFers claim to hate

Pakistanis can vote for the absolute best politicians ever, but if the power structures are corrupt and out of their control, they won't have an impact. In fact, even the electoral choices Pakistanis get are filtered based on what the army, judiciary, and elites (landowners, corporations) prefer.

Ultimately, there's only so much an electorate can realistically do to change their political environment. This applies to Pakistan as well as any other democracy or republic. There comes a point when those who have the power to change the direction of the country to act in accordance with the public's interests. I'm not anti-elite; rather, I want the elite to have a vision for nation-building and seek a project bigger than real estate. But at the same time, they need to understand that their current actions are holding the nation back and, eventually, it'll bite them.

 

[nahtanbob]

Pakistanis can vote for the absolute best politicians ever, but if the power structures are corrupt and out of their control, they won't have an impact. In fact, even the electoral choices Pakistanis get are filtered based on what the army, judiciary, and elites (landowners, corporations) prefer.

Ultimately, there's only so much an electorate can realistically do to change their political environment. This applies to Pakistan as well as any other democracy or republic. There comes a point when those who have the power to change the direction of the country to act in accordance with the public's interests. I'm not anti-elite; rather, I want the elite to have a vision for nation-building and seek a project bigger than real estate. But at the same time, they need to understand that their current actions are holding the nation back and, eventually, it'll bite them.

Who are members of those power structures ? Would you want them to more educated or less educated ?

 

[PanzerKiel]

Go ahead and give me a negative rating. I’ll continue to speak out the uncomfortable truth

Low of you to think like that, or to imagine that a person like me, whom you know nothing about, would get uncomfortable on hearing the truth. I do not stoop that low. You speak like i am in a habit of giving negative ratings all around at will. In case you really want it, ask someone else.

 

[AA_]

Low of you to think like that, or to imagine that a person like me, whom you know nothing about, would get uncomfortable on hearing the truth. I do not stoop that low. You speak like i am in a habit of giving negative ratings all around at will. In case you really want it, ask someone else.

Wasn’t directed towards you personally, but your organization deserves every scathing remarks it gets. We have ample data size to come to this conclusion.

The negative rating part was from some of the gung-ho admins here at my previous remarks. They scolded me for similar remarks. It was upsetting for them to hear me advocate this for fellow Pakistanis.

 

[altafahmed]

I think army has unofficially surrendered on Indian terms. We have accepted that we are slaves and Indians can do as they like. I just hope more BLA type rise up against these generals that have destroyed our nation.

Problem with BLA types is they do not target these generals, they target ordinary soldiers.

 

[313ghazi]

Yep absolutely.

Also, no investment in upskilling Pakistanis.

Sure, at the start there may not be enough places within Pakistan to absorb the talent, but its continual availability will eventually bear fruits. So, if I had an able labor force, a Pakistani investor could at least use it to start producing auto parts at home and, with time, compete to enter Toyota's global supply chain. That'd drive both exports and also reduce our foreign currency outflows (by substituting foreign parts with local ones).

That said, in the years before that point, we could have had Pakistanis getting employed overseas as skilled workers (much like Indians did through the 1980s and 1990s). So that could've helped with building soft power, investment linkages, and so on.

One thing I realized with Pakistani leaders, especially military and pro-military types, is the lack of big-picture thinking. I'm not talking about bullsh!t ISPR big picture thinking, but big picture from the standpoint of nation-building. Not one of them saw the value of Tejas, for example. They all called it a samosa jet, yet completely missed how the project helped India build domestic expertise on flight controls, composites, aerospace design, etc. In turn, that expertise (i.e., labor, R&D centers, facilities, etc) helped them absorb lucrative offset deals with Lockheed Martin and Boeing which, in turn, grew their aerospace exports (e.g., supplying Apache fuselages). And now, that expertise is rolling into the ORCA/TEBDF and AMCA.

The thing is - we were teenagers on the Internet and we could see the benefits the LCA would eventually have for India - even as a failure.

 

[nahtanbob]

The thing is - we were teenagers on the Internet and we could see the benefits the LCA would eventually have for India - even as a failure.

One would not know it from the amount of scorn the whole project has received on this forum

 

[313ghazi]

One would not know it from the amount of scorn the whole project has received on this forum

Thats just banter, same as sports teams and thier rivals. Also as a product it's been terrible - the Indian airforce doesn't want it, but as a project it's been great for India.

We'd be lucky to have a similar failure.

 

[Goritoes]

Because Army is busy killing Pakistani kids making tiktoks, journalists and shooting P0rn videos of politicians, ab tu dil se bas ek hi awaz ati hai, Lagta hai Pakistaniyo ne hijro ki fauj banai hai lol