Arabs haven't given one bullet to Palestine

[Falcon29]

Thanks for your sensible reply...I can understand your pain and frustration....But sometimes if you do not control your pain and frustration then you may send wrong message to your friends too..

Here is my impression about this issue....

1- Middle east is a hugely political issue...One nation occupy another nation territory...So it is a political and national issue.
2- It has religious flavor too...The religion angle is that fight or Muslim vs Non Muslim

But the challenge is that most of the people around the world may feel the pain of this struggle of your people..But the moment, you or the people supporting you starts using the word eliminating Israel from the map, it is a warning sign for most of the other nation...You have to believe that Israel is going no where...You like it or not...You can not simply kill an entire nation just because you do not like them...They may be bad people by your assumption but the world now does not work like that way.

So you should present your case to the world as a humanitarian issue rather than religious issue...Then major stake holders like US,West,Europe and even Arab world with Sunni majority people may allign with you..Your association with Hamas is simply suicidal...Your reason may be legitimate but it will lead you no where....

Although most of the Muslim world talks about religious union so much on internet, but in real life, their nation and their country are more important to them than religion....That is why if you see, Arab world is developing very first economically and technologically too....Religion based movement has very few takers in this time...Examples are very self evident in front of you..

So you are people who are educated and you have the information of different ideas from different world...Try a different approch and speak with your people....Already generation of youth is lost from your side..How long this humantarian crisis will continue? Every Muslim nation can sympathize with you and they can send some financial assistance after war is complete...But till the point US, Europe,China, Russia and other major powers controls the geo politics of this world, no religion based movement will succeed...

There are two issues here. One of them is as you said presenting our case to the world. It is being done by Westerners/Palestinian Westerners. It is gaining tide in the international world and polls support this. I agree with you that the Arab world lacks a union to be more influential in this.

The second issue is see it like this. You are Indian, you look at the foreign world for your affairs. But, at the same time you look up to your people/military. This is the same with me, I'm a military enthusiast as most people are on this forum. I see some responsibility for our cause is purely local(Arab) and Palestinian(Hamas/PA). I've experienced the history, others haven't so it would be difficult to explain why many support armed resistance. My opinion is that it's unfair to disregard them for being a religious movement. Religion drives the Arab world, we can't separate that from them. But, it doesn't get rid of rationality/logic(Except for cases like ISIS).

Hamas is an educated bunch from amongst the Palestinian people. They don't mimic any movements around the Muslim world besides some like Hezbollah which also differ on some issues. Hamas isn't the only one movement in Palestine which believes in the right to arm our people. PFLP for example is a liberal secular movement which also believes in the same right. Most Palestinians see all these movements as united under one cause and one government(recently announced unity government).

So for us Arabs, we believe that in our region/land it's our right to support our resistance/military elements of the society. Because we Palestinians are occupied though, some people strip this right from us. The international world won't get involved since the world is preoccuipped with issues/interests that are largely dictated by economic interests and capitalism. The Palestinians had most of their resources taken by Israel so they can't offer anything to the world if they don't get sovereignty. And Israel doesn't want that since we would compete with their economy. No matter what we do to get a two state solution the other side will reject it and the international world will remain impartial.

So the importance lies on the Arab world. Religion/public support/Arab nationislism are fabrics of the society which can't go away.

 

[Frogman]

I don't want Arab nations to publicly announce arming Palestinians. They can do so through third party sources. It already happens in other places in the Arab world.Or just allow us to get raw material, resources. People around the world want to arm us, if they are given approval you would see it. But, Egypt/Jordan need to cooperate a little bit.

Which third party sources (actually name nations or corporations)? Who around the world wants to arm you (name nations)?

What do Iranians have to do with this? For example, in Egypt there are old weapons storages. Some of those made it into Gaza, such as older Milan anti-tank rockets.

Iran is under sanctions, Hamas is in a similar position. If there were a million sources for weaponry they would have not been in the position they are now.

You don't take it seriously though so I have no urge to answer you.

Answer it.

Slow down frogman, the first thing you need to understand is they're an occupied people. They will use what they have. They do their best to target military concentrated areas and shell in return Israeli settlements. Israel has wiped off whole suburbs and regularly targets civilian homes. You have a double standard when Palestinians return the favor with much less payload. If they could get guidance systems, accurate weapons, more resources to develop their weapons you can see the day where the Israeli military will be dealt a blow. The rocket fire is meant to damage economy and say to the Israeli's if our people don't have calm so won't yours. It is justified under occupation. Try to put yourself in their shoes. Our civilians have always been regularly targeted by Israel. Look up the Qiblya massacre for example. Modern day ones are easy to find.

And all of the above is totally irrelevant. The affect of the Hamas' rockets have already proved to be negligible for near a decade, they have zero military value, and the Israeli economy keeps on growing, instead of allocating resources elsewhere this is your focus. If you only target military targets and Israel continues its targeting of Pali civilians you've pretty much won the propaganda war, however, with the continued targeting of civilians Hamas proves it is no better than the Israelis thus garnering less sympathy and allowing Israel to spin its yarn.

The entire point of a Guerrilla movement is to use the resources at hand, however limited to successfully engage the enemy when it is at its weakest. So Hamas fighter incursions into Israel during the height of the conflict was stupid with forces amassed near the border, however, if such incursions occurred at times or relative calm not only would you catch the enemy unawares you would also be able to control the narrative. Improving your ability to infiltrate Israel by land and sea is what should have been Hamas' military priority, not the rockets.

This requires resources too

Resources which you had and used well.

 

[sachin@india]

Egypt is not giving them a running space, how one can expect them to provide bullets to them. atleast for god's sake someone should threaten Israel of dire consequences for their terrorism against palestine.

 

[Falcon29]

Egypt is not giving them a running space, how one can expect them to provide bullets to them. atleast for god's sake someone should threaten Israel of dire consequences for their terrorism against palestine.

It's our leaders. If we were control of this situation we would be funneling weapons/manpads/ammunition/aritllery/mortars/ and more advanced weapons in the future if the situation was in our hands.

 

[sachin@india]

It's our leaders. If we were control of this situation we would be funneling weapons/manpads/ammunition/aritllery/mortars/ and more advanced weapons in the future if the situation was in our hands.

i differ with you bro, i know lecturing is easy but to follow it is very difficult, but war with israel is no solution. they will get a chance to justify their terrorism against innocent people. i know it is a charged environment, very easy to get radicalised. i hope someone shows some balls and stand up against israelis. they are barbaric.

 

[Falcon29]

Which third party sources (actually name nations or corporations)? Who around the world wants to arm you (name nations)?

Corporations don't do that kind of business. By that I mean black market/clerics/supporters. If Egypt allowed them to you would see from Algeria, Libya, KSA, Egypt, Sudan, Iran, Lebanon, Turkey, Pakistan, even if Afghanistan could they would. You know this very well, minus the black market. But, Egyptian intelligence does everything it can to prevent this. But, it doesn't do so when weapons purchased by KSA from Libya go to Syria. It only does so when it goes into Gaza because as my recent thread proves, Egypt is cooperating with Israel.

We want nothing to do with nations or corporations.

Iran is under sanctions, Hamas is in a similar position. If there were a million sources for weaponry they would have not been in the position they are now.

Because I said there are many sources in the arms industry you translate it to me blowing it out of proportion. And you wonder why I don't take you seriously.

And all of the above is totally irrelevant. The affect of the Hamas' rockets have already proved to be negligible for near a decade, they have zero military value, and the Israeli economy keeps on growing, instead of allocating resources elsewhere this is your focus. If you only target military targets and Israel continues its targeting of Pali civilians you've pretty much won the propaganda war, however, with the continued targeting of civilians Hamas proves it is no better than the Israelis thus garnering less sympathy and allowing Israel to spin its yarn.

Hamas and others have no choice but to respond to these atrocities targeting civilians. They have done economic damage during Israeli offensives. During peace and calm we don't intend to harm anyone, however they do by their siege/occupation. Right now an Israeli soldier was critically injured in a rocket strike.

The entire point of a Guerrilla movement is to use the resources at hand, however limited to successfully engage the enemy when it is at its weakest. So Hamas fighter incursions into Israel during the height of the conflict was stupid with forces amassed near the border, however, if such incursions occurred at times or relative calm not only would you catch the enemy unawares you would also be able to control the narrative. Improving your ability to infiltrate Israel by land and sea is what should have been Hamas' military priority, not the rockets.

They need to improve their abilities on all factors. However, with a lack of resources they can't train as much as you think they could or form better intelligence, etc...I don't need to go into it, you know what I mean. Just look how Hezbollah has much more flexibility and what it results in. Whatever Hamas does you know how Western media will react to it. But, if you hope to see to devastating blows to Israel if it attacks Palestine we should allow technology to enter Gaza. Technology which targets military infrastructure such as anti-ship missiles/Igla like dual manpad systems/effective artillery. We shouldn't put them down, they are doing what they can under occupation and it's a real struggle.

Resources which you had and used well.

Resources which we need and are limited.

i differ with you bro, i know lecturing is easy but to follow it is very difficult, but war with israel is no solution. they will get a chance to justify their terrorism against innocent people. i know it is a charged environment, very easy to get radicalised. i hope someone shows some balls and stand up against israelis. they are barbaric.

We don't need war. We just need to equip the Palestinians in case Israel thinks of launching another war. Without deterrence this will keep going on every two years because it suit Israeli politics/military industry. They use open air prison Gaza as an experimenting field. I'm sure you agree with this too brother.

If they can't achieve deterrence soon they will be in concentration camps and West Bank Palestinians will be expelled. Israel intentionally makes their lives miserable by economic/political/social restricitons on their life in hopes the Palestinians would be hoping to leave for a better life elsewhere. This is a form of genocide/displacement. They get very excited when they see polls showing a portion of Palestinians wish to leave due to the horrible misery they live in.

Right now isn't the time for an all out war with Israel. We know when the right time will be.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

its not hidden its out in the open Why Evangelical Christians Support Israel - Speech - PatRobertson.com The question is does it affect U.S policy especially when some one like BUSH is in the white house???

Before and during WW2 Jews were treated like sh*t in the US by most religious groups. They even had trouble getting into colleges. Then suddenly after the War and the creation of Israel those hard line Conservative Evangelical Christians started softening their tone. Why was that?

Well the Jews suddenly controlled Jerusalem and now the spit on people hold the keys. So the Evangelicals had to soften up.

It would be interesting to see if Evangelicals were for the creation of Israel.

 

[KingMamba]

Is it just me or do many of you think @Hazzy997 is p!ssed?

He sounds really mad in this thread, too many exclamation points.

Before and during WW2 Jews were treated like sh*t in the US by most religious groups. They even had trouble getting into colleges. Then suddenly after the War and the creation of Israel those hard line Conservative Evangelical Christians started softening their tone. Why was that?

Well the Jews suddenly controlled Jerusalem and now the spit on people hold the keys. So the Evangelicals had to soften up.

It would be interesting to see if Evangelicals were for the creation of Israel.

For evangelicals Israel is just a means to an end, their real goal by supporting the creation of Israel was to speed up the beginning of the rapture because according to them the rapture will only occur when Israel defeats all its enemies, of course after that Jesus will return and Jews will either have to accept him or perish lol.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

He sounds really mad in this thread, too many exclamation points.



For evangelicals Israel is just a means to an end, their real goal by supporting the creation of Israel was to speed up the beginning of the rapture because according to them the rapture will only occur when Israel defeats all its enemies, of course after that Jesus will return and Jews will either have to accept him or perish lol.

I'm sure even the Pope would do a big WTF at that. Infact he'd like to see all of them hit by a tidal wave.

 

[al-Hasani]

I have not read the thread other than the thread title.

Who went to war for the sake of the Palestinians AS THE ONLY PEOPLE EVER? Arabs.

Who went to war more than once for the sake of the Palestinians? Arabs.

Who have donated more for Palestinian resistance groups historically? Arabs.

Who have donated more humanitarian aid than anyone? Arabs.

Who have financed and rebuilt more buildings, infrastructure, mosques, hospitals etc.? Arabs.

Who ALWAYS stood up for Palestinians since Israel got created in 1948? Arabs.

Who expelled most of its Jewish population after Israel's creation and treatment of the Palestinians? Arabs.

Who hosts and who has welcomed more Palestinian refugees than anyone else by far? Arabs.

Who always hosted Palestinian leaders in their lands and famous Palestinians that were sought after by the West and Israel? Arabs.

Who now hosts the leader of Hamas? Arabs.

Whose people's support can the Palestinians always count on? Arabs.

Who has since 1948 banned Israelis from traveling to their countries and a wide range of other initiatives? Arabs.

Who has until this day made the most realistic peace plan to date? Arabs.

Who sacrificed more blood, tears, money, politics etc. for the Palestinians and the Palestinian cause? Arabs.

@Hazzy997

I seriously suggest that you find new partners. We are tired of your likes and their ungratefulness. I suggest that you run for help to non-Arabs but they have not even done 1/100 of what the Arabs have done for you. Let them deal with your mess.

Quite frankly it is not the 450 million or so Arabs problem that you Palestinians are in your own mess. It is largely self-created. Especially considering that most of the land was sold by wealthy Palestinian landlords to Jewish migrants.

Also had it not been for Hijazi's and their victory in the Arab Revolt most of the Arab world in the ME would still be ruled by non-Arabs and Palestine would just be the name of a historical region and little more. The Brits betrayed their promises too but that's another discussion altogether.

Even secular Shia Arab girls (that I know personally from an Arab organization in Copenhagen and Arab diaspora gatherings in Copenhagen) from Najaf are crying about Palestine while their country is on fire and in a much worse state. Yet your likes have the audacity to complain.

You people make me sick. No wonder that Palestinians have a very poor reputation in the Arab world.

Hell, thousands of diaspora Arabs from dozens of Arab countries (Sunni, Shia, Christian, Atheists etc.) were demonstrating against Israel in Copenhagen (me included) and all over the world from South America to Indonesia but I don't think that you deserve all this attention if those are the thanks. Especially as many other Arabs suffer from more worse conditions yet do not even get 1/100 of the publicity the Palestinians get.​

 

[1000]

I have not read the thread other than the thread title.

Who went to war for the sake of the Palestinians AS THE ONLY PEOPLE EVER? Arabs.

Who went to war more than once for the sake of the Palestinians? Arabs.

Who have donated more for Palestinian resistance groups historically? Arabs.

Who have donated more humanitarian aid than anyone? Arabs.

Who have financed and rebuilt more buildings, infrastructure, mosques, hospitals etc.? Arabs.

Who ALWAYS stood up for Palestinians since Israel got created in 1948? Arabs.

Who expelled most of its Jewish population after Israel's creation and treatment of the Palestinians? Arabs.

Who hosts and who has welcomed more Palestinian refugees than anyone else by far? Arabs.

Who always hosted Palestinian leaders in their lands and famous Palestinians that were sought after by the West and Israel? Arabs.

Who now hosts the leader of Hamas? Arabs.

Whose people's support can the Palestinians always count on? Arabs.

Who has since 1948 banned Israelis from traveling to their countries and a wide range of other initiatives? Arabs.

Who has until this day made the most realistic peace plan to date? Arabs.

Who sacrificed more blood, tears, money, politics etc. for the Palestinians and the Palestinian cause? Arabs.


I seriously suggest that you find new partners. We are tired of your likes and their ungratefulness. I suggest that you run for help to non-Arabs but they have not even done 1/100 of what the Arabs have done for you. Let them deal with your mess.

Quite frankly it is not the 450 million or so Arabs problem that you Palestinians are in your own mess. It is largely self-created. Especially considering that most of the land was sold by wealthy Palestinian landlords to Jewish migrants.

Also had it not been for Hijazi's and their victory in the Arab Revolt most of the Arab world in the ME would still be ruled by non-Arabs and Palestine would just be the name of a historical region and little more. The Brits betrayed their promises too but that's another discussion altogether.

Even secular Shia Arab girls (that I know personally from an Arab organization in Copenhagen and Arab diaspora gatherings in Copenhagen) from Najaf are crying about Palestine while their country is on fire and in a much worse state. Yet your likes have the audacity to complain.

You people make me sick. No wonder that Palestinians have a very poor reputation in the Arab world.

Hell, thousands of diaspora Arabs from dozens of Arab countries (Sunni, Shia, Christian, Atheists etc.) were demonstrating against Israel in Copenhagen (me included) and all over the world from South America to Indonesia but I don't think that you deserve all this attention if those are the thanks. Especially as many other Arabs suffer from more worse conditions yet do not even get 1/100 of the publicity the Palestinians get.​

Basically what he wants is Arab states to fund & arm Hamas and other Palestinian groups turning hostile to the Western world, similar to as what Saddam's Iraq did, Syria under Hafiz/Bashar etc. But look at what happened to those states and Libya, the far superior west took care of those states and they will with any other Arab state going in the same direction.

He said himself ..

Syria will become a resistance base against Israel

Source : Syrian insurgents acquire TOW missiles

despite the suffering of civillians living there will endure whilst he's in the US, Arabs living in the west can't play general using the people there are some soldiers on a chess game.

Egypt has a population of 90 mil+, if they go on this resistance path the 90 mil will endure some decades of hell. If the Gulf states follow the path they won't last long either, the wealthy Arab states would go to hell as well, not a major problem for him in the west but it is for the people there.

 

[al-Hasani]

@Hazzy997

Also you seem totally incapable of admitting all those facts that I just wrote above that nobody can counter because all of them are correct.

Moreover for all your "Islamic resistance" talk then the Palestinian cause was more important during the height of Arab nationalism and more actual fighting was done during that period. Yet you curse those leaders.

At the same time you talk about the chaos in the Arab world of late which is correct YET despite that you expect the 450 million or so Arabs to die for the Palestinians once again when they have bigger problems themselves WHILE at the same process you expect them to remain silent when you insult their very big sacrifices or when you insult them for not following your party line.

Do you not understand that your posts are making Arabs (that usually support Palestine in 99% of all cases) angry and non-Palestinian Arabs might even get an impression of your ungrateful views being common among Palestinians.

You are not doing any favors to your cause.

Also whether Palestinians are fellow Arabs, Semites, Muslims, Middle Eastern people, neighbors or whatever then most sane people will be against injustice no matter who suffers from it. Just because I criticize some of your views and behavior then it does not mean that I do not support the Palestinian cause.

Now go label me as an apostate or whatever you do against people who disagree with you!

 

[Falcon29]

@al-Hasani

Get a life already. You said the same thing in a separate thread and I addressed you. The past has nothing to do with the present. Arab regimes are an abomination against God.

Arab citizens 99% support us and support Hamas. Which is why the most popular hashtag this week on social media is : We are all Hamas.

Arab citizens are much different than regime worshipers.

@1000

You never learn anything. When it suits you try appeasing other Arabs. But, then they mock Iraq and mock Iraqi Shia and you turn the cheek.

And when they destroy Hezbollah and attack Iran is probably only then will you realize you're mistaken by attacking me. What else do you want me to say. You are lost and don't know anything about these local regimes which are much, much worse than I make them out to be.

If you knew how to read Arabic you would wake up. But, whatever, I'm going to leave you on keep appeasing them all you want until they kill the last one of you.

 

[1000]

@1000

You never learn anything. When it suits you try appeasing other Arabs. But, then they mock Iraq and mock Iraqi Shia and you turn the cheek.

And when they destroy Hezbollah and attack Iran is probably only then will you realize you're mistaken by attacking me. What else do you want me to say. You are lost and don't know anything about these local regimes which are much, much worse than I make them out to be.

If you knew how to read Arabic you would wake up. But, whatever, I'm going to leave you on keep appeasing them all you want until they kill the last one of you.

Not appeasing anyone.
I already told you often i'm no Shi'a how hard is it for you to understand, 15K tribal SOONIS just sided with the army in Anbar, are they all Shi'a ?

I didn't attack you, you're the one attacking everyone here you've called me many things before. You side with the Sunni side day one next day you're with the Iran/Syria/Hezbollah axis. If Arabs start supporting you from today on you will spit on Iran and all Shi'a.

 

[Falcon29]

Not appeasing anyone.
I already told you often i'm no Shi'a how hard is it for you to understand, 15K tribal SOONIS just sided with the army in Anbar, are they all Shi'a ?

I didn't attack you, you're the one attacking everyone here you've called me many things before. You side with the Sunni side day one next day you're with the Iran/Syria/Hezbollah axis. If Arabs start supporting you from today on you will spit on Iran and all Shi'a.

You are Shia, which isn't a problem. Although you don't realize what they have against you. As I said, you're a grown man who can think for himself. I would prefer not to appease them because these Arabs on the forum don't reflect popular opinion.

Arabs already support us materially(Qatar), and yet I don't spit on Iran or 'Shia'. There's no such thing, in the Quran you must thank people as it is equivalent to thanking God. I always urge the Arab world and Iran and whomever else to focus on one central cause.

But, the Arab world prefers massacring each other, killing their own, being corrupt. Whatever man, if you guys want that have fun with it.