ARABIC language to be POPULARIZED in Pakistan

[Corruptistan]

I don't know if they are more sophisticated or polite,they sound harsher to me.
Standard Arabic is the standard in every Arab country. They can understand each other like this. What exactly do you mean "they don't have the same reach"? It's the official language.

I would argue that Arabic is a far more sophisticated language by virtue of its greater vocabulary, diversity (dialects), enormous linguistic influence on languages on 5 continets (there is no language more influential language than Arabic in the Muslim world), the Quranic (Classical Arabic) element, the huge literary tradition.
It was literally the lingua franca of science and education for centuries, even in the West, hence the many Arabic-derived words in the technical/astronomy/mathematical/chemical field. Not to mention the poetry and music that influenced music fields across the world. Arabic was taught in Oxford for centuries for God's sake. All the most famous Muslim scientists regardless of their ethnicity wrote their main works in Arabic. Even the Mughal's used Arabic as a scholarly language even though none of their subjects spoke it.

It is without a doubt one of the most beautiful and influential languages in the world.

Farsi is a language that I like as well and it is also a language hugely influenced by Arabic vocabulary. Apropos.

Many of my countrymen are quite ignorant in this regard (Arab countries, Arabic language etc.) and their knowledge is limited, hence the prejudice of Arabs not being able to communicate with each other. But this ignorance goes both ways, most Arabs, Iranians, Turks and outsiders in general, believe that we Pakistanis are identical to Indians and vice versa, and unfortunately we have a lot of Pakistanis that don't help destroying such a nonsense prejudice.

Politically, yes, you an make the argument that Arabs and Turks alike are not fond of each other. I have friends in Turkey who are sick and tired of Arabs, well not just because millions live in their country illegally and uninvited, they also do not want to become part of their society, accept their social norms and learn and speak the Turkish language.

Yet if you look at the Arabs who are in their home countries and have never been to Turkey or lived in Turkey, they view Turkish tv series from a different perspective. The women and children are inspired by their culture.

I don't think that there is any hatred between the average Arab or Turk. To begin with have in mind that millions of Turks are actually of Arab descent. The whole Southern and Southeastern Turkey is very close to neighboring Syria, Iraq. I even once read that the Arab tribes that have lived in Turkey before the Turkic invasions, speak dialects similar to what is being spoken in Najd.

Arabs in Turkey - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Similarly there are a lot of Arabs of Anatolian (Turkish) ancestry spanning from Yemen to Algeria.

Much of Turkish cuisine originates from Arabic culinary traditions which they got after their expansion to Arab lands in 1517.

So I would argue that people to people/cultural relations are very close.

What has changed is the Syrian exodus to Turkey (no country likes to be flooded by immigrants) and also the different political development post-Ataturk but that is also only partially true as there are many secular Arab nations based on Western-models (at least those in power) similar to Turkey.

I consider that a doubtful thing, Arabs are extremely proud people/nationalistic and often even xenophobic not much different from Turks and Iranians in this regard. If I recall that series was even banned in most of the Arab world due to historical inaccuracies portrayed in that series.

Which BTW gets me to another topic, the average Arab, Iranian and Turk share more in common with each other than the opposite, yet that has never stopped the rivalries or dick measuring contests between them.

 

[Foinikas]

When you are reading Quran you are actually reading a narrative in Arabic so in essence 99% people who can read Quran already know Arabic

So are you saying,you guys read the Quran without interpretation to Urdu or local languages? And you understand it?

That's like saying,the Gospel was written in Greek,if you read it in Greek you know Greek.

 

[Corruptistan]

Wait a minute,I thought Ertugrul was on TV during the Erdogan leadership? Erdogan's governments tend to promote such series about Turkish history and especially if they portray Turkish leaders as strong,honorable Islamic leaders.

Of course it is. Which there is nothing wrong with, after all this is part of the "Turkey brand" that Turkey has cultivated. From Midnight Express that demonized the country to Turkish Airlines, cheap labors in Western Europe, to cheap holidays to Antalya and Ertagul and Erdogan's pan-Islamic aspirations. All have strengthened Turkish softpower. Credit where credit is due. Even Istanbul, which looked like a dump in the 1960's (my father was stationed in Istanbul as a child during that era and saw it all himself due to my grandfather working in the Pakistani embassy/diplomacy) compared to today but now is one of the most visited cities in the world.

The problem is that ignorants among us (and in general South Asian Muslims) eat all of this raw (we can see examples in this thread a few posts ago, lol) and then when they realize that Turkey of today is not their Islamic utopia, they get a culture shock. We already saw that with some Pakistanis online harassing some Turkish female actors from that series or whatever it was.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Wait a minute,I thought Ertugrul was on TV during the Erdogan leadership? Erdogan's governments tend to promote such series about Turkish history and especially if they portray Turkish leaders as strong,honorable Islamic leaders.

Does that matter. Truth is it's 1% fact, 9% hearsay, 90% fantasy. Only brain dead Pakistani's fall for this sh*t. Sad thing is Pakistan has epic history with giant historical figures. But all that is ignored and instead they lap up some gora/gori fantasy packaged as 'Islam'.

My brother often jokes that you can bottle piss and sell it as premium perfume so long as you give it French name and add "Paris' to it. Same for food - get any vile food but package it as 'Italian' and your good to go.

Looks like in Pakistan you can seel any shyte as long as you give it a Islamic tag - and it will be lapped up like inscects to poo.

 

[VCheng]

Looks like in Pakistan you can seel any shyte as long as you give it a Islamic tag - and it will be lapped up like inscects to poo.

One must respect the right of the majority of a people to determine their national direction, whatever one's personal views or disagreements might be.

 

[Corruptistan]

@Indus Pakistan

I have seen photos of Sarajevo and Tirana from the 1910's and late 1800's (when the Ottomans were still in power) and there all the women were wearing full burqa in public.

Here is footage from Istanbul in 1910, the most cosmopolitan and liberal city in the Ottoman Empire.

But you are fully right, the only thing (mainly) that sets Turkey apart is the Western-inspired (on steroids) adoptions by Ataturk and his French secularism. People think that this huge transformation occurred overnight and without bloodshed but it was rather the opposite. However even hardcore secularism for almost a century until Erdogan did not prevent/weaken the Islamic/conservative sentiments in Anatolia proper as we have seen.

But obviously they are a few decades ahead compared to us due to their headstart.

Basically it goes like this;

The more a Muslim society is exposed to Western concepts, Western influence etc. the less conservative it tends to be. Add geographic proximity into the picture and it is even more widespread.

Basically we are living in a Western (Anglo-Saxon) or should I say a US-led/shaped world.

We can discuss whether or not all of that influence is healthy, I would argue quite clearly that this is not the case, but my philosophy is that moderation is key here and we should retain our many beneficial values and cultural practices and gradually remove the bad ones and adopt the good ones from abroad and morph it all together into a distinct Pakistani cultural update.

To blankly copy experiment x or y is going to fail. No each case/country is similar. For instance such Ataturk attempts (let us call it that) failed miserably in Afghanistan and Iran before. If not the Mullah's would not be around nowadays. Or the Taliban.

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

why not improve our own national and local languages instead of bringing another language in the country.
No doubt Arabic is a diverse language but that does not mean it should be promoted like local and national languages.

English is enough for global needs.

 

[_NOBODY_]

So are you saying,you guys read the Quran without interpretation to Urdu or local languages? And you understand it?

That's like saying,the Gospel was written in Greek,if you read it in Greek you know Greek.

Those who genuinely wish to learn about Islam do read the translation of the Quran and try to understand it based on the context/contexts of each verse but the vast majority doesn't and this is what allows the mullahs to control the ignorants.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

One must respect the right of the majority of a people to determine their national direction, whatever one's personal views or disagreements might be.

Nope. Emphatically NO. There was a time in history of USA when they used to lynch Negroes and sell them as property. The vast majority believed in that including founding fathers of USA. When the said 'all men are created equal. they meant all white men. Groids were excluded. So were you and me. So we epicanthic lot.

It took a minority to begin to oppose this. To shout against it. Even then as late as 1960s Negroes were being lynched in the south where the vast majority continued to believe in White supremacy. Did it not require guns and soldiers in the form of 101st Division to enrol one Negro at university when even the Governor of the state opposed it.

So no majority is not always right. Just look at your own history. Had you been there you would have said 'master we respect will of the majority'.

 

[Edevelop]

I don't disagree and the same thing can be said about Arabs or any other major ethnicity. Such ethnicities share much more in common with each other than the opposite although there are regional differences and differences across countries. Only adds to the beauty of diversity.

Most of our Sufis were Arab in origin so that logic goes right out of the window. The earliest Sufi orders were also founded by Arabs. Islam was first spread by Arabs in what is today Pakistan (Sindh) as well gaining a solid foothold.

The idea that Islam was spread to Pakistan by Turkic invaders and a few 100 Sufis does not hold up to history or scrutiny. Of course conversions were a gradual process but among Sindhis, Pashtuns and Baloch of Pakistan, Islam was well-established before the mostly Turkic invasions.

Anyway I do agree that from a linguistic viewpoint Farsi would be/is easier to learn at least for Pashtuns, Baloch etc. than Arabic which is a hard language to master however there is no comparison in which language has a wider worldwide reach. Here Arabic is in a different galaxy. Similarly Mandarin compared to Turkish.

Anyway as I wrote, I would focus on LOCAL languages and English but if I should pick 2 foreign languages, due to the arguments that I wrote and many others before me in this thread, I would only be picking Mandarin and Arabic.

I don't disagree. Islam arose from Arab speaking land and spread to other regions. But the part where I disagree is how Islam was spread in Pakistan. It was not spread by Arabs but by Persians. Arabs like Bin Qasim came to Sind and multan to trade only and there were no reported conversions There is a lot of history to prove this.

In Pakistan schools don't teach correct history. They distort history by also suggesting Mughals were somehow champions of Islam and saviours. Reality was they were Central Asian Turks and were extremely barbaric and their presence was largely in Hindustan. In Punjab there was a strong resistance movement against them and many leaders died. The fact that Mughal rule in Hindustan was much longer than in our part of the world is even accepted in distorted history.

Arabic was the academic language and Baghdad and Damascus was the capital for that. This is very clear cut and I don't think anyone can disagree with that. However, historically, you will find that all major philosophers, scientists, doctors, artists, etc were predominantly of Persian origin. Even as far as Islamic Spain you will find contribution of Persian individuals.

Of course it did not matter where you came from as golden age Islam was accepting of multiculturalism but in modern day when we have discussions of Arab history and Persian history, there is no doubt that Persian contribution to the Islamic world is far more diverse.

The Arabic Gulf were Bedouins who just had tents and camels. They have always been on the wrong side of history even after they discovered oil. I mean there is not much to say if we have to consider what went down between Lawrence of Arabia and Ottoman Empire and who supported whom and who was a traitor.

 

[VCheng]

Nope. Emphatically NO. There was a time in history of USA when they used to lynch Negroes and sell them as property. The vast majority believed in that including founding fathers of USA. When the said 'all men are created equal. they meant all white men. Groids were excluded. So were you and me. So we epicanthic lot.

It took a minority to begin to oppose this. To shout against it. Even then as late as 1960s Negroes were being lynched in the south where the vast majority continued to believe in White supremacy. Did it not require guns and soldiers in the form of 101st Division to enrol one Negro at university when even the Governor of the state opposed it.

So no majority is not always right. Just look at your own history. Had you been there you would have said 'master we respect will of the majority'.

Wattabootery that happened in centuries past will and can not be applied in this century half way across the world. In this day and age, one must support the right of a people to determine their own national direction as they see fit.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

If any one is Mohammad Bin Qasim's Bhanja please let us know
It is part of the brain wash , in Pakistan Studies book

Good Old General Zia Ul Haq curriculum and Pro Saudi

Page 1 Bin Qasim landing
Page 2 1857 War
Page 3 Pakistan gained freedom in 1947

Thorwn in the mix was Mohammad Ali Jinnah 14 points lo ban giya Pakistan
After Pakistan formed , Mohammad Ali Jinnah sent to horrible Hot place like Quetta ? Like really Sidelined
He did all the work and right after , Sir you go to Quetta hot Desert

This is the simplistic view in our low quality books in relation to history


O tera bazoo mai Iran hai , did anything interesting happened ? from Iran No we don't study that

O tera Shalimar Bagh looks like Irani Garden, no we will not study that none sense

Should we study Islamic civilization , No we don't study that

How about Ottoman Empire ? No we don't study that

Any other civilization like Greek who were in Pakistan ? No Let us be clear Greeks were not in Pakistan

We were Slaves and 1857 war , now we are not slave
This is why Cherry Bloosom says " We are Beggars"


O what happened in 1971 ? Oh we are not going to study that just remember 1971 was war and Bangladesh formed

What is this Bull shit 5 year plan ? Oh you must know this for exam

But Ayub guy is dead ? Why do I need to now this ? It has no impact on history those 5 year plan failed as well

Bachoo , we will study this

"Pakistan is planned to be Asian Tiger" in few years even when this narrative failed for 10-15 years

Asia Tiger to Nahi bana , Neutral hogiya


Oh oh what is this CENTO ? shit this look like good idea? Oh this looks interesting topic let me read and believe in it as a Child but see no development , no new news no Trade news or investment

Oh f , this was cancelled long time ago we forgot to remove it from book Pakistan become "NEUTRAL"

But why the f I need to study this for final exam ? Don't know just memorize it even if it is a program Pakistan was never 100% committed from military perspective (reference Iran-IRAQ war)


Oh oh this too

"We will never discuss why Fatima Jinnah was denied win in Election !!"

And Mohammad Ali Jinnah died on street on route to Hospital due to engine failure in military vehicle (Some claim there was a Air Ambulance present when he was taken to hospital on a ground vehicle)


These are sensitive subjects bacho , the final exam will not have these questions lets focus on

"Pakistan is Agrcultural Society and we will work on Farms and then create food and sell it to World "




Fast Forward Present

Oh book said we are agricultural society why is prices of Aloo Tomatar and Egg so high

Oh oh ... looks' like we failed again, don't bug me for I am a NEUTRAL

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Wattabootery that happened in centuries past

1960s is 'century past'? And is 'whatwhata' your go to when you don't like or can reply to opposing argumant.

Grow up!

Mohammad Bin Qasim's Bhanja

Me.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

In Pakistan schools don't teach correct history.

No history is ever correct as it's often riddled with bias but ours takes the piss.

 

[Mahabahu kaunteya]

Never wrote anything before , so apologies again