Angry Pakistanis turn against army

[roadrunner]

So pakistan was not ruled by a military man during the war was it?

Too simplistic. East Pakistan was lost from right after partition. The language movement was the first clear evidence of the nationalism of Bangladeshis. Whether it was military or civilian, East Pakistan was going to separate sooner or later. Was Jinnah responsible for losing Kashmir for example? No, because the Indians took it by force, so it was going to happen anyway, just as Bangladesh was going to separate.

 

[roadrunner]

Free and fair elections....simple

That is not an alternative. You have a choice of Nawaz, Zardari, or MMA. Which of these three are credible alternatives to Musharraf?

 

[Majnun]

Don't listen to Asma Jahangir.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Dabong, in pakistan, the solution is not free and fair election-----I donot know if you have worked in any management position in corporate world in america----corporate america is dictatorship at its absolute---a benevolet dictatorship at that---now why is corporate america successful and people go to work for it from all over the world---because they have created a system----where you have a choice---if you don't agree with the policies of the corporation---you can quit and go find work somewhere else or you will be fired---but if you decide to work---then you need to earn your living by showing up from 8 to 5 and when you work---you give your 110 % regardless of what your complaints are.

Pakistan may have a 1001 elections-----but if the mindset of the people cannot be changed---nothing is going to work. Incidently, opposition has a mentality that they are not working for pakistan---the govt employees have a mentality that they are working for a monarch and the general public are a vassals of the crown---the party in power thinks that they have become monarchs----the police thinks that it is the kings dictum---it is chaos all over---you simply cannot make chicken soup from chicken s h i t.

It is not the elections that will make the difference---it is mindset and attitude that will make it happen. Pakistanis want to head to the 'RIGHT' direction but they will never get to their destination as long as the direction of their chosing is heading 'LEFT'. We need to straighten our bearings and that will make the difference----other than that it is all talk.

 

[dabong1]

So this is it? Your reasons for being anti Musharraf are out of concern for the rest of the Muslim world? Forget about Pakistan's interests, put the interests of other Muslim countries first? Why not take down Pakistan's borders while you're at it, so that the country can become a slave to the rest of the Muslim countries? .

The west sees you as a muslims first then a pakistani.......
No matter what pakistan does the west will not be happy.
We let them use our airspace to attack the taliban,then we let them build bases in the country,then we start handing over anybody the americans want,then we start attacking our own people in NWFP at the behest of the americans who are now threatening to send in there own army.
But let me guess you want us to continue in this direction because you think the americans love the muslims and want to help them?

You're views are warped, you're arguments non existent. For example, mini states cannot be exploited if they are smart enough to be technologically advanced. It is not the size of the state that is important, it is the technology they can produce..

"You're views are warped, you're arguments non existent"
So while the rest of the world is getting together and creating politic/econ
blocs like the EU and the older example being the "united states" of america you want the islamic world to do the opposite?

What has made Muslim countries a mess is greed and those people that do things in the interests of other countries, such as yourself (or your opinions on here), Bhutto, Zardari and so on. It let colonialists into the subcontinent, thanks to some butt licking Indians, it gave Pakistan Bhutto who sold her soul to every corrupt, non Pakistani institution on earth, it weakened the central government's position as the media has tried to do, and it generates a lot of chaos...

What has the made the muslim countries a mess is people like you who think that a one man show is going to save the day.

Pakistan should put itself first, over any other country on earth.

Thank you professor for stating the obvious!

 

[roadrunner]

The west sees you as a muslims first then a pakistani.......
No matter what pakistan does the west will not be happy.
We let them use our airspace to attack the taliban,then we let them build bases in the country,then we start handing over anybody the americans want,then we start attacking our own people in NWFP at the behest of the americans who are now threatening to send in there own army.
But let me guess you want us to continue in this direction because you think the americans love the muslims and want to help them?

The American government may not love Muslims, they may love oil, this is irrelevant. Pakistan started and continued in a direction because it had no other choice. The phrase bomb you back to the Stone Age might be familiar.

"You're views are warped, you're arguments non existent"
So while the rest of the world is getting together and creating politic/econ
blocs like the EU and the older example being the "united states" of america you want the islamic world to do the opposite?

Surely not. Pakistan is part of SAARC and other blocs that include China. A Chinese-Pakistan bloc would be huge.

What has the made the muslim countries a mess is people like you who think that a one man show is going to save the day.

And now you're suggesting democracy would have led to a different situation to the current one. You know that PPP was all for being part of the WOT? Democracy would not have made any difference to the Pak Army being called to round up terrorists. Because it was in Pakistan's best interest to get rid of these foreigners that crept into the region from Afghanistan.

Thank you professor for stating the obvious!

Firstly you say Pakistan should not attack its own people. Then you say or agree with the Pakistan first motto. If Pakistan does not follow through with rounding up suspected terrorists, the US will bomb. If Pakistan does follow through, the US will help, and a couple of foreign radicals will get upset. Which option sounds like the best to follow to you? Being bombed by the US, or upsetting some radicals who will probably try and enforce Sharia on Pakistan if they had no other enemies?

 

[S-2]

"Without autonomy for the FPSC and other institutions, accusations will simply shift from the military to the politicians for nepotism, and we are back in the circle where people welcomed the military for taking power from NS.

With respect to Army officers not being able to walk around some parts of Pakistan - that is a reflection more on the intellectual bankruptcy of people in our nation, who have taken the WoT as an affront to Islam, and would rather believe in far fetched conspiracy theories of the "agencies" conducting all this mayhem (primarily directed at their own staff).

This attitude is not something exclusive to Pakistanis - people in general try and focus their anger and put blame on tangible threats, and in Pakistan this is complicated even further because of the intangible threat being linked with Islam. The "agencies", Army, Musharraf, all present tangible symbols that if removed would miraculously sole all of the nations problems. People don't want to deal with the thought of a long struggle against a shadowy enemy, a war to change and win hearts and minds - a war that challenges some of the perceptions that society has taken to heart."

Simply a series of superb observations which are beautifully expressed.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

It let colonialists into the subcontinent, thanks to some butt licking Indians,

So it is but licking Indians, right?

Always finding scapegoats for your woes, right?

How did the British obtain the firman to operate in India, from which Indian, please? So now the Badshah is an Indian and you have nothing to do with this Badshah, right?

Mir Jaffar, is an Indian now, right?

And Pakistan was throughout a separate entity as you claim, right?

Scapegoats at will and convenience to be found and you are never at fault!

Life in denial!

Thus Spake Agnostic Muslim:

people in general try and focus their anger and put blame on tangible threats,

 

[roadrunner]

So it is but licking Indians, right?

Always finding scapegoats for your woes, right?

How did the British obtain the firman to operate in India, from which Indian, please? So now the Badshah is an Indian and you have nothing to do with this Badshah, right?

Mir Jaffar, is an Indian now, right?

And Pakistan was throughout a separate entity as you claim, right?

Scapegoats at will and convenience to be found and you are never at fault!

Life in denial!

Thus Spake Agnostic Muslim:

people in general try and focus their anger and put blame on tangible threats,

lol. You're a funny guy Salim.

On this map, most of the European settlements appear to be in South and East India. Is it wrong?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

lol. You're a funny guy Salim.

On this map, most of the European settlements appear to be in South and East India. Is it wrong?

Allowed to operate in India by who?

Who actually was treacherous and disloyal to his King to allow the British a real firm foothold?

Butt lickers, right?

Anyone who has any practicality would realise that in those days, they were seafarers and so the trading outposts had to be along the sea!

I am sure you would remember that the aircraft had not been invented then!

Further, even in modern India and Pakistan, who has allowed the US to have a foothold in their country?

Don't let your anger cloud thoughts and create snafus that embarrass you!

 

[roadrunner]

Who actually was treacherous and disloyal to his King to allow the British a real firm foothold?

Are you going to tell me? Or leave me in a "snafus" state trying to work out who this was.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

How can I tell you?

You are Mr Historical Knowall!

You tell yourself.

 

[roadrunner]

How can I tell you?

You are Mr Historical Knowall!

You tell yourself.

That was informative. Thanks Now I'm "snafused" for the next 24 hours.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

That was informative. Thanks Now I'm "snafused" for the next 24 hours.

A bit of churning your brain for historical nuggets that come to you so naturally should not be too much of a pain for you - that is the physical part. The historical part would surely be agonising and that is why there is the selective amnesia that seems to be visiting you!

Some tip before posting:

1. A man is about as big as the things that make him angry.

2. Speak when you are angry - and you'll make the best speech you'll ever regret.

3. For every minute you are angry you lose sixty seconds of happiness.

 

[Flintlock]

lol. You're a funny guy Salim.

On this map, most of the European settlements appear to be in South and East India. Is it wrong?

Man, did you notice something: All the settlements are in coastal areas.

Also, most of the settlements were founded by navigating ancient trade routes...

Sheesh...