Ancient Man and His First Civilizations.Proving Aryan Invasion Theory is a myth and severe lie

[Joe Shearer]

Another LOL Hinduism doesn't exist until the Aryan & the local religions got mixed together no Hindu without the Vedic which are also written in Sanskrit which the Aryans also brought.

More or less, subject to minor corrections.

 

[Joe Shearer]

First you tell me which country you belong.. Based on your native country I will reply you...

@Reashot Xigwin , just ask him what caste he belongs to. Watch the fun. 95% of these revisionists are Brahmins.

 

[SrNair]

@Reashot Xigwin , just ask him what caste he belongs to. Watch the fun. 95% of these revisionists are Brahmins.

But I am not a brahmin.You cant include me in to that list.You dont need to take this thread in to upside down.Indians create India history , culture,and civilization.Outsiders influence us to a certain extent.

Another thread about Aryan Invasion

Aryan (Albino) She is Jacinta Lal (Miss IndiaNZ 2010) half kiwi-half Fiji Indian

You dont need to trust some parts of that article.I saw similar articles like this before.I think author called white people as albino in sarcastic manner.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Your version of Aryans must keep in your own hand you dont need to teach me.I said this because a I got a lot info about
this subject from renowned researchers.Native population of India creates advanced Indus Valley civilization not foreigners .Foreigners with white skins late came here to take that advantage.Anyway I dont need to argue to you.You are not an Indian.I only care about our Indians opinion.After all we Indians suffered with third rate AIT theory not foreigners.



this is what you got.There is 120 crore people in India .so we dont care about this third rate video.



No there is twist.It is west propaganda .Only thing invading Aryans do is to twist the fact in Rig veda.Later it known like that.
A brahmin must be a noble man or his/her action made him noble.But white Aryans converted it in to name of colour.Over white people is superior.that is their contributions .

I really regret that we have to suffer the outpourings of this particularly stupid poster. He cannot communicate in any comprehensible manner for starters; then he comes out with a weird amalgam of prejudice and insistence that the number of people believing a fact indicates how accurate or inaccurate that belief is.

I said this because a I got a lot info about
this subject from renowned researchers.

Citations would be nice. That is, in fact, the sensible thing to do, when talking about expert subjects quite clearly beyond your competence.

Foreigners with white skins late came here to take that advantage

What advantage? There is no proof that there was a mixing of the population that inhabited the IVC.

If you mean that foreigners with white skins, namely, the British, came here centuries later to take advantage of the existence of the ruins, and put out misleading theories about India, what were those, and why were they misleading? Many of the originally promoted thoughts of those British, including Mortimer Wheeler, have been discredited. Theories and hypothesis building is the very meat and flesh of scientific discovery, discussion and proof - or disproof. We can get nowhere without speculation based on evidence, but we will get nowhere with speculation based on faith and belief.

 

[scorpionx]

Please take a look at my post on the following page. I will complete it with my own interpretation of events following the advent of the British in a few minutes. I am unable to write for long periods without taking some intervals out for rest.

The more I read, the more I am convinced that the sub-continent is about caste, as far as internal social dynamics is concerned.

However, when it comes to Hindu-Muslim interactions, the freedom movement, the growth of the Congress, the sudden inauguration of the Muslim League, the more or less abandonment of the Congress by the Muslim 'salariat', the signs that there was a creeping take-over of the Congress by the Hindu Mahasabha, the growing influence of rabid Hindu businessmen on Gandhi, Gandhi's own chilling views on race and on caste - I believe that the case goes beyond caste. The British let out the genie from the bottle, but the genie went totally out of control.

I find most of us Indians on this forum very much dissenting with the fact that Congress was a complete secular organization and it was the Muslim League and the British who were the responsible for all the evils for partition and it's after effects on the general commoners on both side of the border. And I look it as a sheer injustice to Mr.Jinnah and his career to be wiped almost out from our school curriculum and also the horrible mistake to incarnate Mr.Mahatma Gandhi as a holiest figure of our history in spite of his own prejudices against the South African Blacks. Now, I feel a little better because I was called a follower of revisionist theory when I said the above things here multiple times.

I am gathering notes for a book on the early years of the Congress, and Muslim attitudes towards it; if only my health bears up to the task.:-(

Will be waiting for this.

 

[Joe Shearer]

No there is twist.It is west propaganda .Only thing invading Aryans do is to twist the fact in Rig veda.Later it known like that.
A brahmin must be a noble man or his/her action made him noble.But white Aryans converted it in to name of colour.Over white people is superior.that is their contributions .

Anyway I dont need to argue to you.You are not an Indian.I only care about our Indians opinion.After all we Indians suffered with third rate AIT theory not foreigners.

If you are so anxious to promote this among Indians, why are you posting this in PDF?

There is 120 crore people in India .so we dont care about this third rate video.

And do you believe that scientific and academic worth is achieved by the number of people who vote for a particular idea?

Only thing invading Aryans do is to twist the fact in Rig veda.Later it known like that.
A brahmin must be a noble man or his/her action made him noble.

What is your theory? Do you know yourself? Here you seem to be saying that white Aryans came into India with the Rg Veda and twisted the facts to fool - whom? nobody seems to know!

Later - when? - it known (sic) like that. Whatever the preceding means. Must mean something profound in Brahui.

A brahmin must be a noble man or his/her action made him noble.

I'd love to see this poster try to get accepted as a Brahmin due to his noble behaviour and noble thoughts.

Reading this guy's rubbish is a really stressful experience.

 

[SrNair]

I really regret that we have to suffer the outpourings of this particularly stupid poster. He cannot communicate in any comprehensible manner for starters; then he comes out with a weird amalgam of prejudice and insistence that the number of people believing a fact indicates how accurate or inaccurate that belief is.



Citations would be nice. That is, in fact, the sensible thing to do, when talking about expert subjects quite clearly beyond your competence.



What advantage? There is no proof that there was a mixing of the population that inhabited the IVC.

If you mean that foreigners with white skins, namely, the British, came here centuries later to take advantage of the existence of the ruins, and put out misleading theories about India, what were those, and why were they misleading? Many of the originally promoted thoughts of those British, including Mortimer Wheeler, have been discredited. Theories and hypothesis building is the very meat and flesh of scientific discovery, discussion and proof - or disproof. We can get nowhere without speculation based on evidence, but we will get nowhere with speculation based on faith and belief.

Oh professional .I spend a lot of time for this subject after my engineering education.it is my hobby.
You can call me stupid ,but there is a lot of Indians here similar to my opinion and also in outside.You must call them also.
We can get lot of weird article and info in internet.Even some info in this article also BS.But some other parts is making sense.
Now you are try to justify Max Muller theory .Then do it .I dont oppose you .But most of Indians that junk theory.

If you are so anxious to promote this among Indians, why are you posting this in PDF?



And do you believe that scientific and academic worth is achieved by the number of people who vote for a particular idea?



What is your theory? Do you know yourself? Here you seem to be saying that white Aryans came into India with the Rg Veda and twisted the facts to fool - whom? nobody seems to know!

Later - when? - it known (sic) like that. Whatever the preceding means. Must mean something profound in Brahui.



I'd love to see this poster try to get accepted as a Brahmin due to his noble behaviour and noble thoughts.

Reading this guy's rubbish is a really stressful experience.

Oh man you oppose me with some stupid prejudice.You may be a professional .So do you think you are correct in all time?.
A man become a Brahmin only through their action ,words and noble behaviour.Not based on skin colour or as birth roght.
Non Brahmins also do their rituals in temples in kerala because they interpret this from that same vedas.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I am worrying about a fact that is still some of our education systems taught wrong history to our Indians.And glorifying Aryans and AIT .Dravidians create this advanced civilization Aryans take advantage of this and twist all noble fact for their own advantage and create caste and colour. We must revamp our history texts.And instead of Aryans they must know our local population creates advanced population.We dont need to pass our early west taught burden to our future generation.



That is a perfect idiotic statement .If Aryans are so much advanced why they cant create an advanced civilization in central asia itself.Dont argue without a rational analysis.Hinduism is a way of life not some conservative religion form under one God.
It roots are flow in Indian life thousands of years ago before Aryans arrive and Aryans contribution pathetic caste system.A noble system created by local Indians twisted and make it under caste, creed and colour.thats all.

This is the very small minority of Dravidians who get stirred up by the entire Aryan language controversy. The reason for that is obvious. Dravidians - mainly Tamilian, in this context - resent having been told for decades that they were a vanquished minority race (that was when people still thought Aryan and Dravidian were races) with an inferior group of languages pushed into the far reaches of southern India by victorious white-skinned invaders; that they were themselves not so good-looking as the invaders, and that their pantheon, and religious practices and entire culture and civilisation were built up by the invaders.

No wonder the guys are pissed off about the AIT!

The trouble is that almost all of the myth shoved down their throats was wrong. It was a Brahminical fallacy, intended to convey the racial superiority of the Brahmin over the 98% of the others who inhabit the south. But they are still fighting this war.

Just for the record:

1. Aryan is not a race; Dravidian is not a race. These are groups of languages.
2. There is no genetic difference between south and north.
3. Derivatives of Indo-Aryan - from Magadhan Prakrit in the east, from Suraseni Prakrit in the west - are spoken widely over the north, but remnants of the oldest, pre-Dravidian layers, the Austric layers, are still to be found extensively over north India.
4. The Dravidian languages, mainly Kannada, Telugu, Tulu, Tamil and Malayalam are spoken extensively in the south.
5. The culture and civilisation in India when Indo-Aryan languages made their way in was in no way inferior to that of the immigrants. The literature speaks of great, walled urban concentrations; perhaps cities, but there is no way to prove that, in the absence of archaeological evidence.
6. Considering that Brahmins are the same colour as the rest of us, calling one set good-looking at the expense of another set is utterly ridiculous. As if good looks depends on colour.
7. What is currently known as Hindu religion and social practices were formed over centuries of interaction. The original form found in the Rg Veda was not followed for very long.
8. It is true that some developments in society in the region known as Tamilakam took place as late as the 8th century. Why should that matter?

 

[SrNair]

This is the very small minority of Dravidians who get stirred up by the entire Aryan language controversy. The reason for that is obvious. Dravidians - mainly Tamilian, in this context - resent having been told for decades that they were a vanquished minority race (that was when people still thought Aryan and Dravidian were races) with an inferior group of languages pushed into the far reaches of southern India by victorious white-skinned invaders; that they were themselves not so good-looking as the invaders, and that their pantheon, and religious practices and entire culture and civilisation were built up by the invaders.

No wonder the guys are pissed off about the AIT!

The trouble is that almost all of the myth shoved down their throats was wrong. It was a Brahminical fallacy, intended to convey the racial superiority of the Brahmin over the 98% of the others who inhabit the south. But they are still fighting this war.

Just for the record:

1. Aryan is not a race; Dravidian is not a race. These are groups of languages.
2. There is no genetic difference between south and north.
3. Derivatives of Indo-Aryan - from Magadhan Prakrit in the east, from Suraseni Prakrit in the west - are spoken widely over the north, but remnants of the oldest, pre-Dravidian layers, the Austric layers, are still to be found extensively over north India.
4. The Dravidian languages, mainly Kannada, Telugu, Tulu, Tamil and Malayalam are spoken extensively in the south.
5. The culture and civilisation in India when Indo-Aryan languages made their way in was in no way inferior to that of the immigrants. The literature speaks of great, walled urban concentrations; perhaps cities, but there is no way to prove that, in the absence of archaeological evidence.
6. Considering that Brahmins are the same colour as the rest of us, calling one set good-looking at the expense of another set is utterly ridiculous. As if good looks depends on colour.
7. What is currently known as Hindu religion and social practices were formed over centuries of interaction. The original form found in the Rg Veda was not followed for very long.
8. It is true that some developments in society in the region known as Tamilakam took place as late as the 8th century. Why should that matter?

"5. The culture and civilisation in India when Indo-Aryan languages made their way in was in no way inferior to that of the immigrants. The literature speaks of great, walled urban concentrations; perhaps cities, but there is no way to prove that, in the absence of archaeological evidence."

I completely agree with this part.After all ,I try in this thread to prove this.But some outsiders try to oppose this.We are not inferior.We are advanced when Aryans came here.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Oh professional .I spend a lot of time for this subject after my engineering education.it is my hobby.
You can call me stupid ,but there is a lot of Indians here similar to my opinion and also in outside.You must call them also.
We can get lot of weird article and info in internet.Even some info in this article also BS.But some other parts is making sense.
Now you are try to justify Max Muller theory .Then do it .I dont oppose you .But most of Indians that junk theory.

I am precisely calling engineers and doctors and dentists with no education in the humanities unequipped to deal with history or its branches. Your hobby does not entitle you to misunderstand popular garbage brought out by propagandists and disseminate that same garbage. Just like engineering, history is a subject that is researched and taught: jokers who claim to run motor cars on water have little respect among engineers, jokers who claim to be rescuing history from foreigners have just as little respect among historians.

The numbers of these people like you who believe in these stupid theories, stupidly, may be large. There was an explosion in Indian education; a very large number of capitation fee colleges came up in the 80s and 90s and their only focus was in churning out narrow specialists, trained but not educated, able to do a reasonable job in technology after a certain amount of re-training. It was these people, earning a lot of money, with no knowledge or prior education in the humanities, who fall prey to the kind of rubbish going around and come out with these wild-eyed ideas.

The Internet is NOT a source for sound information; it is a source for investigating possible sources of sound information. All those sources must then be checked and verified and tested in order to be found fit for use. And only experts can do that. You cannot judge by reading stuff from the Internet what is good pre-history and what is not with your background; only an expert can do that. You are not an expert.

The biggest evidence that you should not be in this discussion is that you think I believe in the Max Mueller hypothesis. That was exploded in the early twentieth century, in some writings, in the nineteenth century itself, by professional historians themselves. NOBODY believed in Max Mueller's original hypothesis in serious circles in recent decades.

I CERTAINLY don't think that Max Mueller is right; he had an interesting point of view, it was proved wrong, and that is that.

Oh man you oppose me with some stupid prejudice.You may be a professional .So do you think you are correct in all time?.

On matters where I am an expert, I am correct all the time, compared to you.

A man become a Brahmin only through their action ,words and noble behaviour.Not based on skin colour or as birth roght.
Non Brahmins also do their rituals in temples in kerala because they interpret this from that same vedas.

Yes, and in Tamil Nadu too. This is not prevalent in the huge majority of cases. It is still Brahminical prejudice that holds sway. About becoming a Brahmin due to actions, words and noble behaviour, why don't you go and ask a Namboodiri who is a practising Hindu if you are his equal?

"5. The culture and civilisation in India when Indo-Aryan languages made their way in was in no way inferior to that of the immigrants. The literature speaks of great, walled urban concentrations; perhaps cities, but there is no way to prove that, in the absence of archaeological evidence."

I completely agree with this part.After all ,I try in this thread to prove this.But some outsiders try to oppose this.We are not inferior.We are advanced when Aryans came here.

Nobody denies this. Nobody denied this. What are you arguing for, and wasting everybody's time?

 

[Joe Shearer]

I am worrying about a fact that is still some of our education systems taught wrong history to our Indians.And glorifying Aryans and AIT .Dravidians create this advanced civilization Aryans take advantage of this and twist all noble fact for their own advantage and create caste and colour. We must revamp our history texts.And instead of Aryans they must know our local population creates advanced population.We dont need to pass our early west taught burden to our future generation.

Where does this rubbish come from?

Which education system teaches wrong history? What wrong facts are being put out? How does stating a fact mean that it is glorified?

It is not clear what advanced civilisation Dravidians created, because in the first place, it is not clear what you mean by Dravidian. In case you are not aware, Dravidian is not a racial category; it is a language group. Dravidians cannot have created "this" advanced civilisation unless you make it clear what you are referring to. Are you referring to the Vedas? The Upanishads, Aranyakas, Vedantas? To the Ramayana and the Mahabharata? To the Puranas? To the vast body of Sanskrit and Prakrit literature generated in these thousands of years? To the noble religions set up by the Buddha or by Mahavira? To the Asokan Empire, the Maurya Empire, if you prefer? to the resistance put up by the imperial Guptas to wave after wave of invaders, the Scythians, the Pahlavas, the Kushanas, the Huns?To the Chalukya Empire, and to their magnificent architecture? To the rock temples of Mahabalipuram? to the Chola Empire, its literature and architecture and society?

I could go on and on. Which parts do you claim were Dravidian?

I agree with you that caste was a concept most probably adopted from the original structure of the tribes and war-bands that may have formed the immigrant groups, but what was Aryan and what was Dravidian about this?

Rather than replace an earlier west-taught burden with a self-generated burden, it is better for you to study history.

That is a perfect idiotic statement .If Aryans are so much advanced why they cant create an advanced civilization in central asia itself.Dont argue without a rational analysis.Hinduism is a way of life not some conservative religion form under one God.
It roots are flow in Indian life thousands of years ago before Aryans arrive and Aryans contribution pathetic caste system.A noble system created by local Indians twisted and make it under caste, creed and colour.thats all.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I am worrying about a fact that is still some of our education systems taught wrong history to our Indians.And glorifying Aryans and AIT .Dravidians create this advanced civilization Aryans take advantage of this and twist all noble fact for their own advantage and create caste and colour. We must revamp our history texts.And instead of Aryans they must know our local population creates advanced population.We dont need to pass our early west taught burden to our future generation.

That is a perfect idiotic statement .If Aryans are so much advanced why they cant create an advanced civilization in central asia itself.Dont argue without a rational analysis.Hinduism is a way of life not some conservative religion form under one God.
It roots are flow in Indian life thousands of years ago before Aryans arrive and Aryans contribution pathetic caste system.A noble system created by local Indians twisted and make it under caste, creed and colour.thats all.

Well, now....talking of perfect idiotic statements, are we? I could not have improved on the grammar; this is indeed the realm of the perfect idiotic statement.

.If Aryans are so much advanced why they cant create an advanced civilization in central asia itself.

What advanced civilisation?

As far as we can reconstruct, and assuming dozens of things, by after 2000 BC, the Indus Valley Civilisation was in decline, by after 1700 to 1300 BC, it was in rapid decline, and the survivors were settling in smaller and smaller groups east and north of the IVC areas. They penetrated the jungles of the Gangetic Plain and were living in small settlements; they were evidently settled in larger, walled settlements in the Punjab. They are remembered mainly for their pottery, which is a useful distinguishing factor between them and succeeding cultures.

Dont argue without a rational analysis.

Excellent advice. Follow it.

It roots are flow in Indian life thousands of years ago before Aryans arrive and Aryans contribution pathetic caste system.A noble system created by local Indians twisted and make it under caste, creed and colour.thats all.

Unfortunately, we have no idea about pre-Puranic civilisation in India, or civilisation prior to the Buddha and Mahavira, except for literary evidence, and all of that related to the Aryan-speaking population. There is nothing about the Dravidian-speaking population, except trace-words detected in day-to-day language. The IVC cannot be claimed to be an example of this noble system, as it did not survive, but even its very name was lost to people living around its cities.

I wholly agree that whatever there was, after Indo-Aryan language became the language of the majority, was twisted, and caste and colour were brought in.

It is difficult to agree with much else.

I am worrying about a fact that is still some of our education systems taught wrong history to our Indians.And glorifying Aryans and AIT .Dravidians create this advanced civilization Aryans take advantage of this and twist all noble fact for their own advantage and create caste and colour. We must revamp our history texts.And instead of Aryans they must know our local population creates advanced population.We dont need to pass our early west taught burden to our future generation.

That is a perfect idiotic statement .If Aryans are so much advanced why they cant create an advanced civilization in central asia itself.Dont argue without a rational analysis.Hinduism is a way of life not some conservative religion form under one God.
It roots are flow in Indian life thousands of years ago before Aryans arrive and Aryans contribution pathetic caste system.A noble system created by local Indians twisted and make it under caste, creed and colour.thats all.

Well, now....talking of perfect idiotic statements, are we? I could not have improved on the grammar; this is indeed the realm of the perfect idiotic statement.

.If Aryans are so much advanced why they cant create an advanced civilization in central asia itself.

What advanced civilisation?

As far as we can reconstruct, and assuming dozens of things, by after 2000 BC, the Indus Valley Civilisation was in decline, by after 1700 to 1300 BC, it was in rapid decline, and the survivors were settling in smaller and smaller groups east and north of the IVC areas. They penetrated the jungles of the Gangetic Plain and were living in small settlements; they were evidently settled in larger, walled settlements in the Punjab. They are remembered mainly for their pottery, which is a useful distinguishing factor between them and succeeding cultures.

Dont argue without a rational analysis.

Excellent advice. Follow it.

It roots are flow in Indian life thousands of years ago before Aryans arrive and Aryans contribution pathetic caste system.A noble system created by local Indians twisted and make it under caste, creed and colour.thats all.

Unfortunately, we have no idea about pre-Puranic civilisation in India, or civilisation prior to the Buddha and Mahavira, except for literary evidence, and all of that related to the Aryan-speaking population. There is nothing about the Dravidian-speaking population, except trace-words detected in day-to-day language. The IVC cannot be claimed to be an example of this noble system, as it did not survive, but even its very name was lost to people living around its cities.

I wholly agree that whatever there was, after Indo-Aryan language became the language of the majority, was twisted, and caste and colour were brought in.

It is difficult to agree with much else.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Or bhai mere ASI-ANI admixture is at most 4200 years old, and between brahmins its just 2300 years old. lol Look at Marathi, South Indian and Bengali brahmins, do they look like local population? How will you explain genetic and phenotype differences?



Just in case you didn't know, Brahui people have lowest amount of ASI genes in them compared to anyother South Asian group. They are not related to South Indians at all genetically. Indo-Aryan Bengali is more similar to Dravidian south indian. SO even IVC people were not South Indians but ANI.

I couldn't quite follow the thread of these two arguments. They sound interesting. Could you detail them please?

What do you mean the ASI-ANI admixture is at most 4200 years old? Where did you get that? I thought it was older, more than 10,000 years old.

What does this mean, "...between Brahmins its just 2300 years old..."? I didn't understand this at all. Particularly as Marathi, south Indian and Bengali brahmins do look like the local population, in a great many cases.

And where did you get "Indo-Aryan Bengali is more similar to Dravidian south indian"? Most intriguing! There are traces of Austric elements in Bengali, for instance, the way the suffix 'ta' is used, but between Bengali and, say, Tamil? or Telugu, or Kannada, or Malayalam? Tulu? In what way? It is a derivative of late Magadhi Prakrit, and is close to Nepali, Maithil, Asomiya and Odiya.

Do spell these out, when you have the time.

 

[Joe Shearer]

So Harrapans were Aryans? Or Australoids had an advanced civilization as Harrappa?

Harappa and Mohenjodaro died on the vine, as it were. That civilisation led to nothing in subsequent Indian culture, nothing tangible, nothing visible.

The proposition was put in brutal terms, but is correct to some extent. Of course, I would have loved to have pointed out that the Australian aborigine did not make walled cities, and did not do agriculture. But why spoil a good, a well-struck attitude?

 

[IND151]

Interesting Information.