Ancient History: the first Sino-Vietnam War 40-43

[gpit]

Why are those Chinese in this picture dress in Qing style.

Nice observation!

It suffices to summarize that the Vietnamese, from top officials to ordinary artists and internet jingoists, generally are very poor in history, culture, and other humanity educations, and therefore lack the capability of independent thinking and easily to be brainwashed. Looks like they are lagging behind from their north neighbor since ancient times lasting to today, and may persist to next a few generations.

Poor Vietnamese... can't even do propaganda in correct way.

Qin dress is similiar to cherchen , Chinese Hans ruled by Qin and Manchus later on.

Don't you fools know that Trung sisters were more thousands years older than Qing/Manchu?

Haha,haha...


Back to the topic.

The summary of "the first Sino-Vietnam War 40-43", as pumped by the original poster, is that the war concluded with an absolute victory for China and a complete defeat of Vietnam, resulting in Vietnam became a Chinese province the second time in written history.

 

[fly2012]

Can you tell me what dress style was in use in that time?

Should be the same as those in "Romance of three kingdom", "Red Cliff", etc.

Drawing of Han-Huns war, 127 BC. (This is art form, may not be accurate)

 

[Fanling Monk]

So, Zhao Tuo [and his descendants] were regarded as the Han invaders, sooner or later they would be defeated and killed by the Vietnamese. That does not change for thousands of years, until today.

How are you going to locate them, in Wikipedia?

Hans are in every level of Vietnam societies and most masquerade as the other ethnic groups, the Gins in particular, for fears of persecutions. After millenniums I presume their numbers are huge too. Don't be surprised most of your ruling elites, intellectual scholars and business moguls are descendants of the former ruling Hans. Go check your own blood root maybe you're a Han too, although I don't think so the way you talk.

 

[ephone]

What are Qin people? They are not Han people???

Qin dress is similiar to cherchen , Chinese Hans ruled by Qin and Manchus later on.

 

[sicsheep]

What are Qin people? They are not Han people???

It's OK, according to his logic, Americans are currently ruled by black people.

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

How are you going to locate them, in Wikipedia?

Hans are in every level of Vietnam societies and most masquerade as the other ethnic groups, the Gins in particular, for fears of persecutions. After millenniums I presume their numbers are huge too. Don't be surprised most of your ruling elites, intellectual scholars and business moguls are descendants of the former ruling Hans. Go check your own blood root maybe you're a Han too, although I don't think so the way you talk.

That is the information I have read from the historal book : Đại Việt Sử Ký Toàn Thư [大越史記全書], (Complete Annals of Đại Việt). It was originally written in Chinese characters [ancient Vietnamese also used Chinese characters], you can completely read it if you want.

One interesting thing I just found out, that informations on Wikipedia with historical timeline are like in the historical book above.

In Vietnam, Hoa people community is also quite large. They are not considered ethnic minority [ethnic minority who are favored some fields].
However, the politics are held by Kinh and some other ethnic minority, but rarely was the Hoa people. Hoa mainly focused on the business.

Maybe we are brothers with Baiyue people, who live in Guangdong, Guangxi...from ancient times. But it has gone through thousands of years, and our Baiyue brother who were assimilated by Han.
However, Kinh (Viet) people and Han people are two different ethnics people. You should not be confused.

Why are those Chinese in this picture dress in Qing style.

I dont see they are same. This is the dress of the Qing troops in French-Qing War 1885:

 

[Fanling Monk]

^^^A little confusing here. On your previous post you said Hoas are the Chinese immigrants from the last Chinese civil war and now you say they are not considered an ethnic group of Vietnam. OK I accept that and they are merely immigrants from China with or without Vietnamese citizenship.

Now according to the Wiki number: List of ethnic groups in Vietnam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. There are about one million Hoas here listed as an ethnic group, so who are these Hoas here? Are the the remnants of the former imperial mandarins that have not assimilated with the Kinhs or other ethnic group?

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

^^^A little confusing here. On your previous post you said Hoas are the Chinese immigrants from the last Chinese civil war and now you say they are not considered an ethnic group of Vietnam. OK I accept that and they are merely immigrants from China with or without Vietnamese citizenship.

Now according to the Wiki number: List of ethnic groups in Vietnam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. There are about one million Hoas here listed as an ethnic group, so who are these Hoas here? Are the the remnants of the former imperial mandarins that have not assimilated with the Kinhs or other ethnic group?

Well, it seems you have misunderstood my opinion.
All of them are the Vietnamese, (of course including Hoa, Khmer, etc...)

What I said above, it means: There are only 2 ethnic groups in Vietnam who are not considered "minority people", that are Kinh (Viet) people and Hoa people. Maybe because the two groups who live mainly in the plains and cities, while the rest tend to live in mountainous areas, where more difficult.

As I said before, Hoa people in Vietnam (Hoa-Vietnamese), mainly descendants of those who fled Chinese civil wars constantly in centuries ago.
They were not the former imperial mandarins when the Chinese invaded Vietnam, because these people were killed or ran back to China after they had been defeated by the Vietnamese.

 

[Snomannen]

The hairstyle are the same.

 

[Sashan]

At least Chinese people do not have braid hairstyle during that time.

Can't open the picture mate. Can you repost them? Would be curious to know. The braid hairstyle or called Queue came from Manchu region and was enforced by Qing dynasty to mark the submission of Han population to the Manchus.

 

[Snomannen]

Can't open the picture mate. Can you repost them? Would be curious to know. The braid hairstyle or called Queue came from Manchu region and was enforced by Qing dynasty to mark the submission of Han population to the Manchus.

Different military uniforms in different Chinese Dynasty:
????????_??????_????

Han hairstyle before Qing Dynasty:
¹Å»­¶¯éüÊý°ÙÍò »æ»­Ãû¼Ò̽×Ù_ÉݳÞ_ÒÁÐãÅ®ÐÔÍø
? ??_?_??_?_?_?nipic.com

 

[Rechoice]

LOL!

Your internet Vietnamese are funny! Always want to deny your history and glorify stuff never existed. In comparison, the Chinese are different. In their history, they condemned their emperors, criticized wrong policies... they believed if the "son of heaven" did wrong, he lost the "mandate of Heaven" and needed be replaced.

Now how about 吴士连, the author of 《大越史记全书》? Was he also a traitor?

Based on 《大越史记全书》, the story is similar:


I am not going to judge whether those two ladies around the age of 50 were good or bad. I am just tell you: based on history books, they were defeated, lost, and killed by their enemies.

Even 吴士连 of your Vietnamese believed she was a female and could do nothing (然以女主，不能成再造之功&#12290 and that she also believed that her followers were just a herd of mobs or motley crowd (乌合之&#20247 from 王见虏(世&#21147大张，自度乌合之众恐不能支 (the King found the strength of the enemy, and feared her own motley crowd wouldn't last).

I'm telling you guys, it could well be that the Chinese treated you unfairly in history from time to time. In fact, most of the time the Chinese rulers treated their own people unfairly in history as well per today's standards. But if your communist authorities attempt to inflame racial hatred for their personal gains by twisting history, your ordinary people have to be wise enough to guard for your own interests.

Read more history of your own, for your own! Stop believing your authorities every thing they say, use you independent judgment...

---

I’d like to add couple.

Based on your history, if there were no Trưng Trắc (徵 &#20596 and Trưng Nhị (徵 &#36019, Vietnam could reserve its independence. This is based from the sentence: “我越遂属于汉”, meaning “my Viet therefore belongs to Han”.

Think twice before challenging China with violence.

The history book was written by Le Tac, he was chinese then he considered Trung Vuong was rebel.
But Ngo Si Lien 吴士连, he has a limited view of point about women, that females couldn't do policy, but he has been respectfully stated that Ba Trung was Emperor of Viets when he used word "Vuong" or "王" in Han character to mention about her.

For Vietnamese people, Hai Ba Trung are symbol of independence spirit of Nation Viets. Her husband was killed by Chinese invader governor base on law of invaders, it was illegal regulation system. She have been regained our dependence in 3 year and declared herself as Emperor of Vietnam.
In the past Chinese have been always attacked Viets first.

 

[Viet]

Different military uniforms in different Chinese Dynasty:
????????_??????_????

Han hairstyle before Qing Dynasty:
¹Å»*¶¯éüÊý°ÙÍò »æ»*Ãû¼Ò̽×Ù_ÉݳÞ_ÒÁÐãÅ®ÐÔÍø
? ??_?_??_?_?_?nipic.com

I got problem with all the pictures in the links.
if you don´t mind, can you post a pic or more from that time in question (Emperor Guangwu/ Trung´s rebellion 40-43 A.D.) so I can compare with our drawings?

 

[Viet]

...
Back to the topic.

The summary of "the first Sino-Vietnam War 40-43", as pumped by the original poster, is that the war concluded with an absolute victory for China and a complete defeat of Vietnam, resulting in Vietnam became a Chinese province the second time in written history.

No need to troll. So you can understand why we hate you.
Yes, that was a clear defeat of Vietnam. Though 2000 years, we are still very proud of the rebellion of the Trung´s Sisters.

Festival celebrates uprising of the Trung sisters
Updated: 11:22PM (GMT+7), Tue, February 28, 2012

A performance at the festival ( Image: hanoimoi.com.vn )

Nhan Dan – A festival celebrating the 1972nd anniversary of the Trung Sisters’ Uprising against northern invaders in 40 AD was held at the Trung Sisters Temple in Dong Nhan ward, Hai Ba Trung district, Hanoi, on February 27 (the sixth day of the second lunar month).

The festival featured a performance retelling the story of the uprising and an offering of incense to commemorate the two famous sisters (Trung Trac and Trung Nhi).

The two-day event also included martial arts performances, calligraphy writing and folk songs.

According to Vietnamese historical accounts, Trung Trac and her younger sister, Trung Nhi, formed an army to revolt against the Han Chinese troops that were invading from the north and gain independence for the country after more than two centuries of foreign feudal domination.

The revolt was successful for a short time and Trung Trac established herself as the ruler of an independent state, becoming the country’s first female leader and chosing Me Linh in Vinh Phuc province as a new capital.

Delegates at the festival reviewed the historical significance of the uprising and the great contributions the two heroines made to the nation.

In the victorious spirit of the spring of 40 AD, the Party Committee, authorities and people of Hai Ba Trung district in Hanoi have gained significant socio-economic achievements and contributed to the development of a beautiful, prosperous and civilised capital.
Festival - NHANDAN ONLINE

 

[BoQ77]

Chinese fathers told the story to the son "listen boy, some Vietnamese guys now threaten the great country with 1.3 billion of our Chinese people"

Many years ago, the grandfather told the father:"Listen boy. I'm going to tell a good story. Our Vietnamese ancestors once beat 1,000 Chinese."
Decades years later, the father told the son:"listen boy.Our Vietnamese ancestors once beat 10,000 Chinese."
And then, the son told the grand son:"listen boy.Our Vietnamese ancestors once beat 100,000 Chinese."
.........................
Now, Vietnamese have gotten their history books that say: "Our Vietnamese ancestors once beat 1,000,000 Chinese and found East Sea Islands first."