Amitabh Bachchan in legaltrouble over Quran remark

[notsuperstitious]

All those who paint india as the most secular heaven on this planet I just wanna ask one question I asked om other threads recently but indians warriors ran away and started trolling.

Muslims are more than 20% by population in india but their representation in army,federal and provincial cabinets,and civil services is less than 1%...why?? ...

Why are they over-represented in movie and music industry? Why are they over-represented in garment industry? Why are they over-represented in India's expat population in the middle east?

There are no policies or laws, its a matter of choice within the limits of circumstances, the same as for a sikh - who is over-represented in the army, for a bihari - who is over-represented in govt jobs, for a Gujrati - who is over-represented in business or a catholic - who is over-represented in education sector.

You can not pick up a piece of data and conclude what you like. People talk abt sachar committe, but how many even bother to mention that sachar committe clearly said that the % of hindus and muslims who pass the interview stage for IAS (IIRC) is the same, however the number of muslims who reach the interview stage itself is very low. Now that stage is reached based purely on quantitative criteria, where one's religion is not even known. So one can't just look at the low no of IAS officers and claim discrimination, can one?

BTW don't try to get oversmart here, I just looked up the federal cabinet ministers and 4 out of 33 are muslims, and no, 20% of india's population is not muslim. Is lying part of your ''asking genuine questions'?

 

[KRAIT]

People will start asking why Biharis get into IAS so easily ? Like we gave them special reservation. They literally and I mean LITERALLY study for 16 hours and live in one small room for preparation. This was told to me as an example by father when I sued to study just 8 hours.

 

[selvan33]

saffronis are hitting hard

amitabh saffroni

yes because we are hindustans.but we respect other other religions and their beliefs. that's why percentage of muslims are increasing in my nation and non muslim percentages are declining in your nation.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Why do you keep confusing secularism with tolerance?(other Pakistani members here do it to denigrate India but you are not of that ilk) Secular/nonsecular are state attributes, individuals can be either tolerant/non-tolerant. How is a religious person supposed to be secular? How can individuals practice secularism that you want? You can get nowhere with this line.

@Bang Galore,
Now you made it even simpler for anybody to understand. Secularism not a religion nor a personal faith. It is simply a state policy that was created by a legislation done by representatives of the people.
And this policy applies to the state and its citizens.
Which means it applies to a person "outside his heart and outside his house". Regardless of his belief or disbelief in anything at all. Somehow I see that people here are treating Secularism as Atheism or some other religious doctrine.

Tolerance/Intolerance is an individual attribute which cannot be legislated.

I was indeed amazed and disappointed at Oscar's reaction.

 

[nair]

8 pages on a thread which i didnt see anything worth discussing (the topic/discussion should have been how a stupid fellow wanted to become famous by doing something really stupid)....... The outcome few pink guys... (most probably they will be indians).....

 

[SQ8]

Why do you keep confusing secularism with tolerance?(other Pakistani members here do it to denigrate India but you are not of that ilk) Secular/nonsecular are state attributes, individuals can be either tolerant/non-tolerant. How is a religious person supposed to be secular? How can individuals practice secularism that you want? You can get nowhere with this line.

And you are confusing my use of secular by associating with the state.
Where I did initially state the exact opposite in my post that started this debate.

Is India a secular state? Possibly... Its laws and constituiotion is secular.

Is it a secular nation? NO.. collectively as a nation (in the workplace, schools etc).. there are varying degrees of secular ideals in practice.. People are discriminated against during employment on the basis of their religion in some places and at others they are not.

So I do not ridicule the Indian state, but rather the Indian people who do not spare any chance to wave the banner of secularism with regards to their state.. but hold fast to values of intolerance when it comes to practice.
Rather ironically, the people and state are not on the same page at all when it comes to the definition of the Indian nation.

 

[aakash_2410]

And you are confusing my use of secular by associating with the state.
Where I did initially state the exact opposite in my post that started this debate.

Is India a secular state? Possibly... Its laws and constituiotion is secular.

Is it a secular nation? NO.. collectively as a nation (in the workplace, schools etc).. there are varying degrees of secular ideals in practice.. People are discriminated against during employment on the basis of their religion in some places and at others they are not.

But that's the thing though, in India at least there constitutional safety of minorities. Muslim can still go to court and get justice.

 

[KS]

And you are confusing my use of secular by associating with the state.
Where I did initially state the exact opposite in my post that started this debate.

Is India a secular state? Possibly... Its laws and constituiotion is secular.

Is it a secular nation? NO.. collectively as a nation (in the workplace, schools etc).. there are varying degrees of secular ideals in practice.. People are discriminated against during employment on the basis of their religion in some places and at others they are not.

So I do not ridicule the Indian state, but rather the Indian people who do not spare any chance to wave the banner of secularism with regards to their state.. but hold fast to values of intolerance when it comes to practice.
Rather ironically, the people and state are not on the same page at all when it comes to the definition of the Indian nation.

No nation is perfect. For example in US which is touted as the model democracy a black guy could a prez only after 350 years.

India is constitutionally, institutionally and politically secular or I would say politically pseudo-secular.

That people being tolerant, intolerant does not undermine the secularism in any way. And also "intolerance" is a very subjective word.

 

[SQ8]

India is constitutionally, institutionally and politically secular or I would say politically pseudo-secular.

Far from it..
It has anti-muslim sentiments used by some.. and at others muslim appeasement for political gains..
Pseudo is too much for the current condition.


Intolerance may be relative, but the average seems to vary across India.. and if only Internet Indians are to be taken into account(or rather the power of anonymity) .. then it sits at the very extreme.

 

[Roybot]

Far from it..
It has anti-muslim sentiments used by some.. and at others muslim appeasement for political gains..
Pseudo is too much for the current condition.


Intolerance may be relative, but the average seems to vary across India.. and if only Internet Indians are to be taken into account(or rather the power of anonymity) .. then it sits at the very extreme.

Intolerance stems from the all sides. This particular case is also intolerance, shown by a Muslim. Or is it that when its done by a minority, no one labels it as intolerance?

All this talk about secularism and intolerance and Muslims being victimized, when its the Muslim guy himself who doesn't give a toss about secularism or tolerance.

If Amitabh or rather the writer of the game show did offend this particular Muslim man, he could have just pointed it out, rather than trying to drag them to the court.

 

[Srinivas]

Far from it..
It has anti-muslim sentiments used by some.. and at others muslim appeasement for political gains..
Pseudo is too much for the current condition.


Intolerance may be relative, but the average seems to vary across India.. and if only Internet Indians are to be taken into account(or rather the power of anonymity) .. then it sits at the very extreme.

Considering the barbaric acts done by Islamic invaders in the name of religion and the recent Islamic terrorism, Indians are always biased against muslims and that is a fact.

 

[notorious_eagle]

@Bang Galore @KRAIT

You are right, i apologize. I should not have generalized. I guess i was hurt after reading the comments of some of the Indian members as they were filled with outright hate. But you fellows are right, i should not have let my emotions get the best of my judgement, and for that i retract my previous statement. But i wil say one thing, looking at this thread it is quite clear that Indians like us Pakistanis have a long way to go when it comes to tolerance. Looking at the comments of some of the Indian members on this thread, it is quite clear that intolerance exists in India and India certainly has a long way to go.

As far as this case is concerned, Big B has said nothing wrong and i am glad the courts threw out this case. It appears that this dude was just trying to gain 2 minutes of fame.

 

[El Weirdo]

Wow Indians have such hatred for islam

No mate... We don't have any hatred for Islam....but yeah we have hatred for the people who are offended even at an innocent sneeze. nobody gives a flying phukk if someone is 'offended' by any and everything.

I used to live with 2 Pakistani guys some 14 years ago , we shared a house. The guy Faisal was a namazee guy. We had a spare room in our house and was used as a makeshift prayer room. I had a certain picture of a Hindu God taped to the wall, but when Faisal used to do his Namazz he carefully used to take the picture off and do his prayer and used to stick it back on the wall. If was a great 'secular' house. Noone was phukking offended what others did.
If you are offended at everything Just leave the modern world and go live in amazonia , seclude !!!
The word 'offended' should be banned from the English dictionary.
Does anyone here think that one have enough time to deeeeeeply think their Every action before they do it for it may offend someone? I haVe my own shiite going on in my life and I don't care if someone if offended which side of my bed I sleep.

 

[notsuperstitious]

What is intolerance? Was the two nation theory intolerance of the minority where they were happily living with majority while they were in a position of power but when they had to share that power the intolerance came out resulting in the death of a million (yes 1000,000) people???

Its all very subjective, and indian state that is one of the few states in the region that have got it right constitutionally must not be dragged into every debate when discussing specific social phenomena outside the state's ambit.

@Bang Galore @KRAIT

You are right, i apologize. I should not have generalized. I guess i was hurt after reading the comments of some of the Indian members as they were filled with outright hate. But you fellows are right, i should not have let my emotions get the best of my judgement, and for that i retract my previous statement. But i wil say one thing, looking at this thread it is quite clear that Indians like us Pakistanis have a long way to go when it comes to tolerance. Looking at the comments of some of the Indian members on this thread, it is quite clear that intolerance exists in India and India certainly has a long way to go.

As far as this case is concerned, Big B has said nothing wrong and i am glad the courts threw out this case. It appears that this dude was just trying to gain 2 minutes of fame.

Criticizing a particular section of a community is NOT discriminating against or being intolerant towards that community. Pakistanis themselves criticize overly sensitive and weirdly strict behaviour of salafists for example, or hindus criticize idiots who beat couples up on valentines day in the name of religion. That can not be automatically taken as intolerance for the entire community.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Why are they over-represented in movie and music industry? Why are they over-represented in garment industry? Why are they over-represented in India's expat population in the middle east?

There are no policies or laws, its a matter of choice within the limits of circumstances, the same as for a sikh - who is over-represented in the army, for a bihari - who is over-represented in govt jobs, for a Gujrati - who is over-represented in business or a catholic - who is over-represented in education sector.

You can not pick up a piece of data and conclude what you like. People talk abt sachar committe, but how many even bother to mention that sachar committe clearly said that the % of hindus and muslims who pass the interview stage for IAS (IIRC) is the same, however the number of muslims who reach the interview stage itself is very low. Now that stage is reached based purely on quantitative criteria, where one's religion is not even known. So one can't just look at the low no of IAS officers and claim discrimination, can one?

My friend , points like these are far too intellectual for most Pakistanis to understand. They require thinking . I gave up a long time ago , you should give up too.

@Bang Galore @KRAIT

You are right, i apologize. I should not have generalized. I guess i was hurt after reading the comments of some of the Indian members as they were filled with outright hate. But you fellows are right, i should not have let my emotions get the best of my judgement, and for that i retract my previous statement. But i wil say one thing, looking at this thread it is quite clear that Indians like us Pakistanis have a long way to go when it comes to tolerance. Looking at the comments of some of the Indian members on this thread, it is quite clear that intolerance exists in India and India certainly has a long way to go.

As far as this case is concerned, Big B has said nothing wrong and i am glad the courts threw out this case. It appears that this dude was just trying to gain 2 minutes of fame.

True , but at least India has found the way , Pakistan is yet to even do that.