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American schools discriminate against Asians

In my particular university, all the part time students working in the cafeteria were Black Americans.

hahaha, interesting observation. In my university where i teach , most of the asian american students usually work in labs, or as ta programs.

:)


Level the playing field? Ridiculous. This is the PROBLEM in the system ; rewarding and excusing poor performance. An imbecilic decision making, imho.

:disagree:
 
In my particular university, all the part time students working in the cafeteria were Black Americans.

Discrimination in all forms is pretty widespread in the US and the air in university departments (inter departmental politics) is rather toxic.

Maybe @Nihonjin1051 had/has similar experience.


TBH, i had an experience where one student said to me, "Y'ALL NEED TO MAKE DESE EXAMS EASIER, SHIET HOW YOU CAN EXPECT TO DO 100 QUESTIONS AND ESSAYS IN 2 HOURS."

LOL. Of course i had to control my reaction because i'm sure this student would have claimed racial discrimination.
 
American schools discriminate against Asians

Because they learn too well? And it disrupts slow class rhythms? Sum'thing like that?

Tssssk, Tay.
 
I think , in regards to the United States Higher Education , policy is centered on equal opportunity. The basis of affirmative action is to provide access to quality education and job market for particular ethnic groups / race groups who may not have access due to the statistical notion of their occupation of lower tier of the socioeconomic ladder. Case iin point, most African Americans live in urban areas that are renowned for poor education, high crime rates, and aculturation towards violence and gang activity, case in point: Camden, NJ; Detroit, MI,, Chicago, IL; Atlanta, GA et al. The idea is noble, to be honest, however, in the actual implementation of said policy, highly qualified candidates to prestitigious PH.D, M.D/D.O, D.N.P, D.P.T, Pharm.D, D.B.A programs are denied in order to save "spots" for certain groups.

As a graduate of a prestigious PH.D. program in Rutgers University, some members of my cohort were given 'access' due to their race and ethnicity, and one can see the dichotomy of their works compared to more distinguished members (mind you many of us, including myself, have published more than 10 articles in peer reviewed journals; some of , unfortunately, have not even been published....).

Prov,

I think the issue is not about the American education system(s) itself , but certain selection criterion processes erg, affirmative action.

How is Japan towards receiving foreign students as full time students in your universities? I know many Indians who go to your universities for studying volcanology and seismology etc but not other engineering courses.

Could you give a comparative contrast on what is Japan's view on receiving international students and your structure versus US universities?
 
@Hamartia Antidote , i understand your position. But in my opinion, how can one excuse poor performance. Its like a person saying, "HEY JOE! I see that your son Joe Jr. is always getting A's in his AP calculus , AP chemistry, AP biology, AP history and AP english exams. Its not fair that he's enrolled in the National Honor Society in school!"

"My son Shakiel is getting high D's in his classes , and its not fair that you whites always get into National Honor Societies, i think my son Shakiel should also be inducted in the National Honor Society because he works hard to get his high D's! If you don't then.....ITS RACISM! YA'LL RACIST CUZ WE BE BLACKS! THIS IS SLAVERY MENTALITY AGAIN, DESE SHIET IS RACISM!"


Then two months later, NHS revises its "admission criterion".

Pathetic. No wonder why US exam rates become poorer and poorer; the system rewards deficiency instead of calling a spade a spade.

American schools discriminate against Asians

Because they learn too well? And it disrupts slow class rhythms? Sum'thing like that?

Tssssk, Tay.

Political Correction + Affirmative Action + Entitlement of certain minority groups (Blacks, in particular). They believe society owes it to them because their ancestors were enslaved. :disagree::frown:
 
here in the uk some top unis do somthing similar. they firstly accept international students as they cost more which is over £12000 as compare to british students who only pay £9000 after that they accept english students then british minorities
Very smart move. Actually, in the US, public universities also do that. They will give preference to students from other states, as they will pay out-of-state tuition.


For the stability of the society, it seems the right thing to do.

Do you actually realise if there are discrimination against EVERYBODY, that would not be Discrimination at all.

But when you talk about Discrimination, when I was studying in Chinese University of Hong Kong, 4% of my school were foreigner, And if you have not passed the local HKAL (Hong Kong Advance Level Examination), there are virtually no chance you can get into one of the 8 university in Hong Kong, 20000 of the 24,000 place were allocated to HKAL graduate. And Foreigner will NEVER going to pass as one of the core subject is Chinese Language and Culture. How's that for discrimination?

PS. I was in Chinese University of Hong Kong during 1998-1999, after the Turnover, so you cannot blame the British Hong Kong government. How toxic is the air of Fascist Dictatorship Chinese Government Regime??

Don't US universities have similar requirements, e.g. English 101/102? Plus, for foreign students to get admitted, you need to pass English proficiency test. As a matter of fact, in mainland China, there is no Chinese course requirement at college level, unless your major is in Chinese literature. The curriculum at Hong Kong universities probably resembles the western education system more.
 
For the stability of the society, it seems the right thing to do.

So you support affirmative action? for me -- i view it with disdain. it should be overturned. it is the antithesis of meritocracy , and the thesis of entitlement.

affirmative action provides access based on the color of one's skin , not on one's innate abilities. it is rewarding a lesser person instead of giving to the more deserving (one who had worked hard to attain grades).

How is Japan towards receiving foreign students as full time students in your universities? I know many Indians who go to your universities for studying volcanology and seismology etc but not other engineering courses.

Could you give a comparative contrast on what is Japan's view on receiving international students and your structure versus US universities?

A student who has completed his or her secondary education (include high school) and school education for 12 years or more outside of Japan will qualify for admission to a Japanese university. A student educated in a country where primary and secondary education (include high school) lasts for less than 12 years will become qualified for admission if he or she completes a college preparatory course designated by the Japanese Minister of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology, and if the student is over 18 years old. Those who have qualifications such as an International Baccalaureate or Abitur and are aged at least 18 years are also qualified for admission to a Japanese university.

The National Center Tests (usually called Center Tests) are not, strictly speaking, a preliminary round of tests to see where you qualify. They're part of the whole entrance examination process, and are usually counted together with the internal tests to determine admissions eligibility. A few schools, mainly the most hotly contested ones (Tokyo and Kyoto Universities) do use the Center Tests as 'round one' to cut down the field, but not all schools do. In any case, you do not get your individual test results until after the second round of tests (the final official results are issued in early April, way after whether or not you got in to the school of your choice has been determined) so you need to go ahead and take the 2nd round of internally administered tests at individual schools anyway. What happens in reality is that most students will write down their answers on a separate sheet of paper, and take that home with them from the exam. The correct answers are released later in the day; and everyone checks their answers against them. If they did really badly, they might decide to skip the second round of testing.

An important factor is that individual universities give different weights to each subject. (The weighting numbers are published by each university every year in their entrance exam guides.) For instance, the Tokyo University of Foreign Studies (Tokyo Gaigo Daigaku) gives a huge weight to the English test results, while the math test results count for maybe 1/4 of English. In addition, the Center Tests themselves are weighted in different ways against the internally administered tests (e.g. Kyoto University only gives them a 50% weight (=25% of the total) I think, or even less.) So everyone who tackles these Center Tests knows well beforehand which school there are aiming for, and what to put most effort into. Since there are 9 subjects that one can be tested on, preplanning is critical. So it's really not possible to switch your national public university school choice after the Center Tests. The national universities schedule their 2nd round tests on the same days too, so it's basically impossible to sit for exams at 2 or more schools.

Not all universities use the Center Tests. It's only mandatory for the national and regional public universities (国公立大学), plus I think all the specialized field universities like the Defense Force university (Japanese West Point equivalent). Private schools can basically use whatever criteria they want to, although many do use the Center Tests. For instance International Christian University considers SAT and TOEFL results among other things. (Private unis do schedule their exam dates after the national uni dates, so many people who aspire to a national uni will take a 'suberidome' (slide-stop, or 2nd choice) entrance exam at a private one too.)

One thing to note is that the national public universities (the best schools to get into, with the exception of a few private schools) basically only look at your test results to consider admission eligibility. So theoretically you could goof off during high school and just get passing grades, never participate in extracurricular activies, and just concentrate on passing the entrance tests. Most high school kids don't do that, but it does account for the prevalence of 'ronin'. Ronin are people who fail to get into the school of their choice the first time, and rather than going to their 2nd choice (almost everyone takes a 2nd choice entrance exam), take a year or more off to just study at exam prep schools and try again. Most Tokyo University students for instance are at least 1-ro (did one year of 'ronin' study). There are plenty of 2-ro, 3-ro and higher entrants too.

Getting into a top national or private university is still a golden ticket in terms of future employment. For a school like Tokyo University, it almost doesn't matter if you don't graduate. Just the fact that you got in stamps you as an elite. Japan is a fairly classless society, so your family background doesn't matter much, but your academic background sets you apart - or not.
 
However, i should note that when they open the "floodgates" to a particular ethnic group, ergo, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Indian & South Asian --- these particular ethnic groups tend to contribute greatly to academic publication journals, and tend to continue to finish the highest accolade(s) in academia (ergo finishing either a PH.D, M.D/D.O, D.B.A) and tend to "give back" to the said institution that provided them with the H1B. I hate to sound race-oriented, but one should also look at the number of East Asian doctoral / graduate students and their contributions to hard science and social science publications , and compare that to other ethnic groups. One tends to make rather requisite assumptions, which tend to reflect accuracy on ability.

Funny you mention "Indians and South Asians". In our department (at one of the top three financial trading firms in North America), there's a clear racial divide between those of us working in the R&D Dept and those simply running systems we build for the trading events (IT and System Operations). R&D is mostly Chinese, few Whites, few Iranians, one Brazilian and only one South Asian (myself). On the other hand, the IT and System Operations depts. are full of blacks, Indians and Hispanic dudes.

While it's embarrassing to admit, the average South Asian is not known for their intelligence. The ones you met are the cream of the crop of a billion+ population that made it into the best schools in the US.

I would replace "Indians and South Asians" with "Israelis and Iranians". :D
 
While it's embarrassing to admit, the average South Asian is not known for their intelligence. The ones you met are the cream of the crop of a billion+ population that made it into the best schools in the US.

Naturally, the South Asians whom i had the distinction and privilege of working with / researching with are PH.Ds. My professional and academic interaction with South Asians left me with a very positive reflection on their abilities, and work standard(s), ethic, culture.
 
So you support affirmative action? for me -- i view it with disdain. it should be overturned. it is the antithesis of meritocracy , and the thesis of entitlement.

affirmative action provides access based on the color of one's skin , not on one's innate abilities. it is rewarding a lesser person instead of giving to the more deserving (one who had worked hard to attain grades).



A student who has completed his or her secondary education (include high school) and school education for 12 years or more outside of Japan will qualify for admission to a Japanese university. A student educated in a country where primary and secondary education (include high school) lasts for less than 12 years will become qualified for admission if he or she completes a college preparatory course designated by the Japanese Minister of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology, and if the student is over 18 years old. Those who have qualifications such as an International Baccalaureate or Abitur and are aged at least 18 years are also qualified for admission to a Japanese university.

The National Center Tests (usually called Center Tests) are not, strictly speaking, a preliminary round of tests to see where you qualify. They're part of the whole entrance examination process, and are usually counted together with the internal tests to determine admissions eligibility. A few schools, mainly the most hotly contested ones (Tokyo and Kyoto Universities) do use the Center Tests as 'round one' to cut down the field, but not all schools do. In any case, you do not get your individual test results until after the second round of tests (the final official results are issued in early April, way after whether or not you got in to the school of your choice has been determined) so you need to go ahead and take the 2nd round of internally administered tests at individual schools anyway. What happens in reality is that most students will write down their answers on a separate sheet of paper, and take that home with them from the exam. The correct answers are released later in the day; and everyone checks their answers against them. If they did really badly, they might decide to skip the second round of testing.

An important factor is that individual universities give different weights to each subject. (The weighting numbers are published by each university every year in their entrance exam guides.) For instance, the Tokyo University of Foreign Studies (Tokyo Gaigo Daigaku) gives a huge weight to the English test results, while the math test results count for maybe 1/4 of English. In addition, the Center Tests themselves are weighted in different ways against the internally administered tests (e.g. Kyoto University only gives them a 50% weight (=25% of the total) I think, or even less.) So everyone who tackles these Center Tests knows well beforehand which school there are aiming for, and what to put most effort into. Since there are 9 subjects that one can be tested on, preplanning is critical. So it's really not possible to switch your national public university school choice after the Center Tests. The national universities schedule their 2nd round tests on the same days too, so it's basically impossible to sit for exams at 2 or more schools.

Not all universities use the Center Tests. It's only mandatory for the national and regional public universities (国公立大学), plus I think all the specialized field universities like the Defense Force university (Japanese West Point equivalent). Private schools can basically use whatever criteria they want to, although many do use the Center Tests. For instance International Christian University considers SAT and TOEFL results among other things. (Private unis do schedule their exam dates after the national uni dates, so many people who aspire to a national uni will take a 'suberidome' (slide-stop, or 2nd choice) entrance exam at a private one too.)

One thing to note is that the national public universities (the best schools to get into, with the exception of a few private schools) basically only look at your test results to consider admission eligibility. So theoretically you could goof off during high school and just get passing grades, never participate in extracurricular activies, and just concentrate on passing the entrance tests. Most high school kids don't do that, but it does account for the prevalence of 'ronin'. Ronin are people who fail to get into the school of their choice the first time, and rather than going to their 2nd choice (almost everyone takes a 2nd choice entrance exam), take a year or more off to just study at exam prep schools and try again. Most Tokyo University students for instance are at least 1-ro (did one year of 'ronin' study). There are plenty of 2-ro, 3-ro and higher entrants too.

Getting into a top national or private university is still a golden ticket in terms of future employment. For a school like Tokyo University, it almost doesn't matter if you don't graduate. Just the fact that you got in stamps you as an elite. Japan is a fairly classless society, so your family background doesn't matter much, but your academic background sets you apart - or not.

Thank you for your detailed explanation, friend.

I have read that Japan has extreme competitive spirit when it comes to getting enrolled in top class universities. Which is why I asked as in our country as well we have fierce competition to get into top notch institutes.

Let's hope that it remains the same. Maybe one day I could consider sending my kids over to Japan to pursue their masters'. (They are just babies right now, twins :D)
 
Naturally, the South Asians whom i had the distinction and privilege of working with / researching with are PH.Ds. My professional and academic interaction with South Asians left me with a very positive reflection on their abilities, and work standard(s), ethic, culture.

Actually no, Nihon my friend, it is not a high class ability or prerogative, it's a cultural trait!
Seeing Japanese folks on a quay in a big station align where they and the train will meet ...
is something unheard of worldwide as partially verified by myself.
There is a sense of focus in the relation of the individual to the society/state in your land that is exceptional.

It's not a bad trait; don't fight it? :thank_you2:

Good day, Tay.
 
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Jews get in because of their connections and also generally high performance.

Also, Jews, particularly Askenazim Jews have one of the highest IQs in the world:

the-chosen-people-11-728.jpg


Jewish people are successful because of this academic culturation amongst their kin. Their is a culture of academic success amongst their societies, and emphasizing their children to study well, and perform well. Their success is because of social environmental support systems, not because of political processes. Perhaps one can even claim genetic component of Jewish abilities to over-perform other races.

Approximately 80% of the Jews in the world today are Ashkenazim, with the remainder primarily Sephardic.

Researchers who study the Ashkenazim agree that the children of Abraham are on top of the IQ chart. Steven Pinker – who lectured on “Jews, Genes, and Intelligence” in 2007 - says “their average IQ has been measured at 108-115.” Richard Lynn, author of “The Intelligence of American Jews” in 2004, says it is “only” a half-standard higher: 107.5. Henry Harpending, Jason Hardy, and Gregory Cochran, University of Utah authors of the 2005 research report, “Natural History of Ashkenazi Intelligence,” state that their subjects, “score .75 to 1.0 standard deviations above the general European average, corresponding to an IQ of 112-115.” Charles Murray, in his 2007 essay “Jewish Genius,” says “their mean is somewhere in the range of 107-115, with 110 being a plausible compromise.”

A Jewish average IQ of 115 is 8 points higher than the generally accepted IQ of their closest rivals—Northeast Asians—and approximately 40% higher than the global average IQ of 79.1 calculated by Richard Lynn and Tatu Vanhanen in IQ and Global Inequity.

Plus, contemplate this astounding tidbit: Ashkenazi “visual-spatial” IQ scores are only mediocre; in one study their median in this category was a below-average 98. They surmount this liability by logging astronomic figures in “verbal IQ”, which includes verbal reasoning, comprehension, working memory and mathematical skill; a 1958 survey of yeshiva students discovered a median verbal IQ of 125.6.

What does it mean that Ashkenazim have a high IQ, in terms of producing “geniuses”? With their population so small - a mere 0.25 of the world total - does it make any serious difference? The answer is YES.
 
Jews get in because of their connections and also generally high performance.

Also, Jews, particularly Askenazim Jews have one of the highest IQs in the world:

the-chosen-people-11-728.jpg


they have a high I.Q and I bet they work just as hard as Asians, but they should have to give up some of their spots to disadvantage black people just like Asians and Whites do.


harvard-comparisons-race-jewssmall-for-internesmt1.jpg
 

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