American Dare

[Salahuddin]

Imam Ahmed ibn Hanbal extracted that Huthayfah said the Messenger of Allah (saw) said:"The Prophecy will remain amongst you as long as Allah wills,

then Allah will lift it when he wishes, then it will be a Khilafah Rashidah (i.e.: The first four Khalifahs) on the method of the Prophecy, it will remain for as long as Allah wills,

then he will lift it when he wills, then it will be a hereditary leadership (i.e.: the Abbasid and Ummayid dynasties etc.) for as long as Allah wills then he will lift it when he so wills.

Then there will be a tyrannical rule (i.e.: all the current Kufr regimes of the Muslims) for as long as Allah wills, then he will lift it when he so wills,

then there will be a Khilafah Rashidah on the method of the Prophecy, then he kept silent." (Musnad Imam Ahmed 4/273)

 

[Thunder]

Imam Ahmed ibn Hanbal extracted that Huthayfah said the Messenger of Allah (saw) said:"The Prophecy will remain amongst you as long as Allah wills,

then Allah will lift it when he wishes, then it will be a Khilafah Rashidah (i.e.: The first four Khalifahs) on the method of the Prophecy, it will remain for as long as Allah wills,

then he will lift it when he wills, then it will be a hereditary leadership (i.e.: the Abbasid and Ummayid dynasties etc.) for as long as Allah wills then he will lift it when he so wills.

Then there will be a tyrannical rule (i.e.: all the current Kufr regimes of the Muslims) for as long as Allah wills, then he will lift it when he so wills,

then there will be a Khilafah Rashidah on the method of the Prophecy, then he kept silent." (Musnad Imam Ahmed 4/273)

So when he was quite, what did it mean? Explain this whole thing please

 

[Awesome]

Till the end of days, Thunder.

Interesting quote, Khalifah. Please do give a link if you can to confirm it.

I'm not against a unification. Khalifah system, only? That's what I got a problem with. We are so far gone that we don't even have a clue what the Prophet's system really was. And if it was one way, how do we know that the Prophet would apply the same rules in todays time, technology, civics, policies and morals?

We need a rethink. Asking all leaders to abandon to one leader is never going to happen. We need to think along the lines of the EU. Heck the way Muslim population is on the rise in Europe, EU might just be that Khalifah system you've been praying for.

If I'm the leader of Pakistan, I cannot ask Saudi Arabia to join Pakistan even under a new name and I'd lead them. We have to rethink and we have to be flexible.

 

[Mansoor A Qureshi]

I feel ashamed to be Pakistani. Pakistan is more powerfull in terms of military then Iran North korea and many other nations still we dont have any guts to stand up to external threats. Our so called leaders start shivring with fear on mere phone call from there kibla (white house) .

Even countries like Venezuela without strong army are more independent then us.

I am also surprised at lot of people in this board have no shame or no problem with Pakistan bowing down in sajood towards west.

Well said

Totally agreed

 

[Spring Onion]

Well said

Totally agreed

Tricked

 

[Mansoor A Qureshi]

Tricked

Whatever jana jee

 

[KashifAsrar]

Till the end of days, Thunder.

Interesting quote, Khalifah. Please do give a link if you can to confirm it.

I'm not against a unification. Khalifah system, only? That's what I got a problem with. We are so far gone that we don't even have a clue what the Prophet's system really was. And if it was one way, how do we know that the Prophet would apply the same rules in todays time, technology, civics, policies and morals?

We need a rethink. Asking all leaders to abandon to one leader is never going to happen. We need to think along the lines of the EU. Heck the way Muslim population is on the rise in Europe, EU might just be that Khalifah system you've been praying for.

If I'm the leader of Pakistan, I cannot ask Saudi Arabia to join Pakistan even under a new name and I'd lead them. We have to rethink and we have to be flexible.

Agreed.
But then the problem is that you assume that it would not be democratic way of Khilafah. It will be a democracy. Some sort of confederation on the lines of EU (say). The important point is that Khilafah would not abolish individual countries, but would establish the Quran and Sunnah faithfully. that is what west and thier co-hearts fear!
Kashif

 

[Awesome]

Heck I don't care if the countries in the union are a democracy or not. And I know they won't be democratic since that'd exclude 80% of the Arab world.

But until they are democratic, some Arab states under dictates from the western world won't bother to join. Being a democracy thus is better. So the task at hand is first to see a series of revolutions (without an American invasion of course, something internal) that bring democracy.

And then there's the question of dissolving outstanding disputes.

UAE and Iran don't like each other, because Iran gave Abu Dhabi some islands 100 years ago which are uninhabited since. The lease ended in 1997 and Iran forcibly took it back from UAE.

Saudi Arabia doesn't like Iran since they are shia.

None of the Arabs like Turkey since apparently everyone's taught that they are Muslims gone wild. People are taught that secularism is something that's anti-Islam.

These are issues that America didn't create, we did this ourselves. You guys think too far ahead about a Khalifah system. Even a union is a loooooong shot.

Step 1: Democracy
Step 2: Peace
Step 3: Awareness about a Union
Step 4: The Union
Step 5: Common Currency
Step 6: Defence Pacts
Step 7: Sharing of resources

Heck the Khalifah system is buried wayyyyy below somewhere. I can't even mention it as a logical step as of now. If we start now, then perhaps it'd be happening during our grandchildren's adulthood. You guys need to learn to make baby steps and not make the issue of Khalifah another issue for Muslims.

I understand as Pakistanis we've slowly moved towards a bigger leadership role amongst Muslims. We also hold the least issues with other Muslim nations. We too have this entire Shia/Sunni/indifferent bloc that wants Pakistan to create issues with either Saudi or Iran.

Shia's of Pakistan distrust Saudi and Sunnis distrust Iran. The anti-terrorism squad blame both Iran and Saudi for holding their war on Pakistani soil.

But apart from that we only had one issue with Muslims and that was the issue of East Pakistan. As Bangladesh is today, we're closer friends 3 decades later than we were as fellow citizens.

So if we really want leadership we need to do things differently from what Saudis and Iranis have done. We don't fight. We don't let other's fight either. Violence begets violence, and thats what we'd be stuck in. Learn from our founding fathers. Jinnah wasn't the leader of any jaysh or lashkar. He was the leader of a political party and literally talked his way into making a Pakistan.

Brains not brawns, guys.

 

[zpak]

I'm not against the Khilafah as per say. Its just upsetting however that the religious party doesn't address the more urgent issues. If they want to start the Khilafah system at least start gaining support by actually doing something positive for Pakistani society. Name me one thing they have actually done to help Pakistani society overall. I have seen nothing to where I could sit back and say..Hey they're not stupid after all. I would love to support the religious party if they conducted themselves in a manner that would show that they will help Pakistan progress.

But so far all they've shown me is that their ultimate goal is to ban television, segrgate society, start world wide violent "jihad" and make sure Pakistan is completely isolated in the international community. Thats where I say to hell with that I'd rather be under a military dictatorship.

 

[Awesome]

I know what you mean. They hardly seem to be involved in some governance. They are more of a censor board than a government.

 

[Salahuddin]

Heck I don't care if the countries in the union are a democracy or not. And I know they won't be democratic since that'd exclude 80% of the Arab world.

But until they are democratic, some Arab states under dictates from the western world won't bother to join. Being a democracy thus is better. So the task at hand is first to see a series of revolutions (without an American invasion of course, something internal) that bring democracy.

And then there's the question of dissolving outstanding disputes.

UAE and Iran don't like each other, because Iran gave Abu Dhabi some islands 100 years ago which are uninhabited since. The lease ended in 1997 and Iran forcibly took it back from UAE.

Saudi Arabia doesn't like Iran since they are shia.

None of the Arabs like Turkey since apparently everyone's taught that they are Muslims gone wild. People are taught that secularism is something that's anti-Islam.

These are issues that America didn't create, we did this ourselves. You guys think too far ahead about a Khalifah system. Even a union is a loooooong shot.

Step 1: Democracy
Step 2: Peace
Step 3: Awareness about a Union
Step 4: The Union
Step 5: Common Currency
Step 6: Defence Pacts
Step 7: Sharing of resources

Heck the Khalifah system is buried wayyyyy below somewhere. I can't even mention it as a logical step as of now. If we start now, then perhaps it'd be happening during our grandchildren's adulthood. You guys need to learn to make baby steps and not make the issue of Khalifah another issue for Muslims.

I understand as Pakistanis we've slowly moved towards a bigger leadership role amongst Muslims. We also hold the least issues with other Muslim nations. We too have this entire Shia/Sunni/indifferent bloc that wants Pakistan to create issues with either Saudi or Iran.

Shia's of Pakistan distrust Saudi and Sunnis distrust Iran. The anti-terrorism squad blame both Iran and Saudi for holding their war on Pakistani soil.

But apart from that we only had one issue with Muslims and that was the issue of East Pakistan. As Bangladesh is today, we're closer friends 3 decades later than we were as fellow citizens.

So if we really want leadership we need to do things differently from what Saudis and Iranis have done. We don't fight. We don't let other's fight either. Violence begets violence, and thats what we'd be stuck in. Learn from our founding fathers. Jinnah wasn't the leader of any jaysh or lashkar. He was the leader of a political party and literally talked his way into making a Pakistan.

Brains not brawns, guys.

"It is difficult to anticipate the exact effects the "abolition" of Khilafah will have on the minds of Muslims in India. I can safely affirm that it will prove a disaster both to Islam and to civilization. The suppression of the time honoured institution which was, through out the Muslim world, regarded as a symbol of Islamic unity will cause the disintegration of Islam...., I fear that the removal of this ideal will drive the unadvanced and semi-civilized peoples..., into ranks of revolution and disorder."

Mohammed Ali Johar,

Times, March 04, 1924,

the next day when Khilafat was abolished in Turkey i.e., March 03, 1924.



Unlike the noble cause of digging out Saddam’s atrocities, Islam Karimov’s recent massacre in Andijan is being buried deep because in his words, the victims “wanted to establish Khilafah.” Atrocities of similar, dictatorial regimes in many Muslims countries are acceptable to the “civilized” world because these are considered as secular bulwarks against Hizb ut Tahrir-like movements, whose main crime is the struggle for establishing Khilafah.

The deadstream media makes everyone believe that the trouble started, at the earliest, around the Taliban’s coming to power in Afghanistan. In fact, the global troubles have been attributed to Khilafah since its inception in the 7th century. Thirteen centuries later, when the British Empire abolished the remnants of Khilafah in 1924, it took a sigh of relief and considered it as the ultimate victory against Islam.

To the utter disappointment of Britain and its allies, the problem, nevertheless, remains. Khilafah still provides motivation to many actions and reactions; movements and counter-movements. Consequently, the centuries old zeal of Islamophobes to abolish Khilafah is as much the root of all unacknowledged terrorism as the renewed zeal of Muslims to re-establish it is the mother of all solutions.

The major problem with Khilafah is the morbid dread it strikes in the hearts of the totalitarians who are determined not to allow Muslims to get united, exercise their right to self-determination and living by the Qur’an. The key to materializing these objectives lies in thwarting Muslim’s organized struggle towards establishing Khilafah.

Just a thought of this struggle leads the Islamophobes into taking many pre-emptive measures, which, in turn, lead to grievances, reaction and counter measures on the part of Muslims.

The more the time passes, the more people realize importance of a central, independent authority for Muslims. Unlike all the dead revolutions of human history, the 7th century revolution in the heart of Arabia not only culminated in establishing a way of life but also set guidelines for a basic governance mechanism, which are still valid today.

This realization of the need to have a central, independent authority for Muslims is directly proportional to the struggle on the part of Islamophobes who will never allow Muslims to establish an alternative model to the existing unjust socio-political and economic order.

The “war on terrorism” is a post 9/11 slogan. In fact, it is a summary title for all the anti-Khilafah efforts: from intellectual escapades to legal hurdles, wars, occupations, detentions and torture. In this process, terrorism is used as a synonym or Khilafah.

One can notice this by carefully listening to the brief statements at the end of summits and conferences these days. It seems as if there is nothing going on in the world except terrorism. The crux of all messages is: We are committed, determined and one against the evil of terrorism. We would not allow terrorists to win. They are against our values and way of life.

A realistic look forces one to ask: Where does the alleged ‘Muslim terrorism’ stand in comparison to the mass killings, tortures, detentions, and exploitations carried out by the legitimized institutions and licensed states. This shows the war is actually on something other than the deceptively labeled terrorism.

One month before 9/11, New York Times reported that most Americans are made to believe, terrorism “is the greatest threat to the United States and that it is becoming more widespread and lethal.” The Americans are made “to think that the US is the most popular target of terrorists and they almost certainly have the impression that extremist Islamic groups cause most terrorism.” Larry C. Johnson, nevertheless, concludes: “None of these beliefs are based in fact,” (NY Times July 10, 2001: The Declining Terrorist Threat).

Johnson cites figures from the CIA reports. Accordingly, deaths from “international terrorism fell to 2,527 in the decade of 1900’s from 4,833 in the 80’s.” Compare the 2,527 deaths in the 90s due to acknowledged terrorism with the death of 1.8 million in Iraq during the same years due to unacknowledged terrorism of the US, its allies and the UN. The US and allies’ terrorism remained unacknowledged because they justified it with lies about Iraq’s Weapons of Mass Destruction. Also compare the 4,833 deaths due to acknowledged terrorism with one million deaths due to unacknowledged aggression of Iraq against Iran on the behest of the US and its allies.

So, what is consuming the world: the acknowledged terrorism of Muslims or the unacknowledged terrorism of the US and its allies?

This brings us to the point that the endless tirades about terrorism that we hear from Bush, Blair and their presstitutes and deadstream media are all directed at holding Muslims from exercising their right to self-determination. Anything in the name of Khilafah in particular becomes part of the struggle towards this end and is instantly criminalized.

Many believe these measures are part of the wider crackdowns for safety in the wake of 9/11. This, however, is not true. The reality is that anything in the name of Khilafah has been ridiculed and presented as a threat to safety since 1924 in particular. The reason: Islamophobes do not want to see Khilafah re-emerge after their assuming in 1924 that they are done with it forever.

An example of this attitude is the reaction in the British press at the eve of Khilafah Conference in London in 1994, long before the staged 9/11 and 7/7. A headline in Independent (August 07, 1994) reads: “Muslim body accused of racism: Muslim rally angers Jews.” A headline in Telegraph (August 8, 1994) reads: “Wembley survives the Muslim call to arms.” An inset in the same story reads: “Fundamentalists’ Elusive Dream of An Islamic Empire.”

The morbid dread of Khilafah is evident from the editorials in the leading British dailies at this occasion. “The threat of Jihad,” reads title of the Telegraph editorial, which goes on to link Khilafah conference with the happenings in Algeria: “Islamic fundamentalists won a majority in recent elections, but, for political reasons, have been denied by the old guard.” The editorial goes on to sow the seeds of dissention among Muslims: “in Britain yesterday, for example, a rally of Islamic fundamentalists caused nothing but alarm by its challenge to the British Muslim community’s moderate leadership.”

Guardian attempted to belittle the conference in its August 8, 1994 report with comments such as: “Much of the Islamic rhetoric meant little to many of the young British Muslims,” as if the participants were forced to join the conference.

The fear mongering trend was not limited to a few presstitutes. Times titled its editorial: “Marching Muslims: Reminder of the need for vigilance” (August 08, 1994) and went on to scare the public: “The rally yesterday of some 8000 Muslims in Wembley Arena provoked understandable nervousness in Britain and abroad.” That “understandable nervousness” is not there since 1994, or 7/7, but since 1400 years. It didn’t end with systematically abolishing Khilafah in 1924.

A report in the Independent (August 8) by Tim Kelsey went to the extreme in fear mongering. Headline of the report tells the whole story: “Fundamentalist gathering seeks political overthrow of Western democracies: Muslims call for Israeli state to be destroyed.”

It is understandable that the enemies of Khilafah would go to any length, beyond these fear mongering reports, to discredit Muslims’ objective and deny them the right to self-determination. This includes staged terror attacks, lies for justifying invasions and occupation, and support to criminal regimes, which promise, in turn, not to let Muslims live by Islam. That’s how the turmoil widens and the hopes for peace diminish with each passing day.

It is absolutely impossible to deny Muslims the right to self-determination and living by Islam forever with the help of occupations, mass deceptions, and puppet regimes. The more these three elements are sustained, the more the resistance and reaction will grow. The sooner there is an end to intervention and withdrawal of support from the corrupt regimes and the divisive factions with made-in-Washington brands of Islam, the sooner a central authority among Muslims would emerge.

The scare mongers in the West would lose absolutely nothing in the process, not even oil. Muslims may not even ask for reparations for centuries of colonial rampage and holocausts worse than Hitler’s. The totalitarians among them, however, would only have to give up on their dreams to make everyone on the surface of the Earth live by their “way of life.”



http://icssa.org/unacknowledged_terrorism.html

 

[Salahuddin]

Heck I don't care if the countries in the union are a democracy or not. And I know they won't be democratic since that'd exclude 80% of the Arab world.

But until they are democratic, some Arab states under dictates from the western world won't bother to join. Being a democracy thus is better. So the task at hand is first to see a series of revolutions (without an American invasion of course, something internal) that bring democracy.

And then there's the question of dissolving outstanding disputes.

UAE and Iran don't like each other, because Iran gave Abu Dhabi some islands 100 years ago which are uninhabited since. The lease ended in 1997 and Iran forcibly took it back from UAE.

Saudi Arabia doesn't like Iran since they are shia.

None of the Arabs like Turkey since apparently everyone's taught that they are Muslims gone wild. People are taught that secularism is something that's anti-Islam.

These are issues that America didn't create, we did this ourselves. You guys think too far ahead about a Khalifah system. Even a union is a loooooong shot.

Step 1: Democracy
Step 2: Peace
Step 3: Awareness about a Union
Step 4: The Union
Step 5: Common Currency
Step 6: Defence Pacts
Step 7: Sharing of resources

Heck the Khalifah system is buried wayyyyy below somewhere. I can't even mention it as a logical step as of now. If we start now, then perhaps it'd be happening during our grandchildren's adulthood. You guys need to learn to make baby steps and not make the issue of Khalifah another issue for Muslims.

I understand as Pakistanis we've slowly moved towards a bigger leadership role amongst Muslims. We also hold the least issues with other Muslim nations. We too have this entire Shia/Sunni/indifferent bloc that wants Pakistan to create issues with either Saudi or Iran.

Shia's of Pakistan distrust Saudi and Sunnis distrust Iran. The anti-terrorism squad blame both Iran and Saudi for holding their war on Pakistani soil.

But apart from that we only had one issue with Muslims and that was the issue of East Pakistan. As Bangladesh is today, we're closer friends 3 decades later than we were as fellow citizens.

So if we really want leadership we need to do things differently from what Saudis and Iranis have done. We don't fight. We don't let other's fight either. Violence begets violence, and thats what we'd be stuck in. Learn from our founding fathers. Jinnah wasn't the leader of any jaysh or lashkar. He was the leader of a political party and literally talked his way into making a Pakistan.

Brains not brawns, guys.

Since, living by Islam is a pre requisite for being Muslims; it also means to live by Islam in all spheres of life without any compartmentalization.
Qur’an clearly tells human beings not to judge with any other standard in life than the standards of Allah. (Al-Qur’an 5:44-47)

Islam is not an abstract theory which will create problems if attempts are made to put this theory into practice. A model of Islamic theory in full practice was presented to the world after the most unique revolution of human history 1400 years ago. Of course, time has changed. Means of communication have improved and breaths taking technological advances have been made.

Nevertheless, the basic human nature remains the same and the basic principles of Islam for living life have nothing to do with the rocket science, except that the latest discoveries further confirm the truth revealed 1400 years ago. The guidance of Islam is for human excellence and governance in all fields of life; whether it be the stem-cell research or attempts to conquer the Mars and the Venus.

Of course, over a period of time, Muslims have tended to make innovations and even keep shying away from Islam. The diversity of the Muslim world is because of the historical process these societies went through. The fact that in today’s world, we don’t see Islam in real practice anywhere doesn’t mean that we should accept this state of affairs as Islam and start building something new on this foundation to be labeled one or another kind of Islam.

Similarly, it is wrong to assume that Islam has to take as many different shapes to accommodate to all the different forms of societies in existence. Instead it is all these societies which have to live by the same basic principles of Islam. For example, if it is the Bank of Malaysia of the Bank of Oman, they have to follow the same basic principle of “no interest” regardless of the language they use and the kind of dress they put on. Similarly, there is no harm in cultural and political diversity. However, none of the law and standard of living and judgment should be repugnant to the Qur’an and Sunnah.

Now Democracy, which was recently considered to be the most viable governance mechanism, stands naked after the recent US and UK adventures at home and abroad. Behavior of these democracies is far worse than any of the tyrannies in the recorded history. All this is ever more evident from the way abuse and torture and police state tactics are presented as the most civilized way of life.

By promoting terrorism and undermining Islam under a perverted label of “a war on terrorism,” extremists succeed only in making Muslims realize that living by the guidance of Islam is now the only course left for the humanity to follow.

The US and its allies are not scared of Islam because it will transform and lead Muslim societies towards human excellence. It is seen as uniquely threatening because it would undermine the capitalist system that has become the life blood of democracy. Without capitalism and corporate backing, bubble of the convoluted form of democracy that we witness today will burst sooner than many can even imagine.

Irrespective of its beginning in individual states, emergence of Khilafah has become inevitable. The US and its allies would only hasten it with further actions like the one they took to eliminate the Taliban. The years long propaganda before invasion and occupation of Afghanistan was out of the fear of the emergence of a true Islamic State.

The overwhelming majority of Muslim political activity is conducted through peaceful means, even where governments are unsympathetic to the Islamic causes. The more the lies of the corporate terrorists are exposed and the more the world sees the real face of democratic-fascists, the more Muslims win their argument in the war of ideas, which is fast becoming America ’s waterloo.[12]

The staged, alleged and real transnational extremist activities on the part of Muslims are the exception, not the rule, when it comes to the action undertaken in the name of Islam which will make a difference in the long run. Most importantly, mostly it is the words and deeds of the 21st century fascists which are paving the way for the single Islamic entity. Titles such as Islamic State, Islamic bloc, Union or Khilafah do not count much.

Islamic movements would not have done in 50 years what the US has done since 9/11 to expose the real face of democracy and the façade of freedom and human rights. The more it goes with all guns blazing to demonize Islam and kill all prospects of the re-emergence of a single Islamic entity, the more Muslims and non-Muslims would get the opportunity to see the truth behind the intellectual and physical barbarity of this age.

Keeping the zeal of war lords in Washington in mind, one can safely predict that re-emergence of an Islamic entity is just a matter of time: no matter how naïve it may sound from the political analysis point of view.

This is the writing on the wall, no matter how most analysts may consider saying so against the accepted conventional wisdom.

 

[EagleEyes]

You must provide a link for the words that are not yours, and quote them if possible. Stop mixing them up.

Consider it a warning.

 

[Awesome]

1924 till today man. Forget Khilafat for a second and see we've only moved further apart. We are more divided today than we were yesterday. Each day brings new divisions.

You keep hoping for Khilafat but won't even work for its pre-requisites which include all those things I was mentioning above. You have to put first things first and not the last thing first.

The main thing is to bring something good for all out nations. But instead you are just desiring for title. For someone to come up and declare "Ok we are following Khilafat now".

There are three stages you go through in life.

Period of Chaos
Period of Transition
Period of Stability

You need to get onto the period of transition to get to stability. Stop chasing an ideal and start planning things for the present.

 

[Awesome]

That must be like the 5th time. I've asked him before to provide links. It's an absolute must. Not something we require to make things look formatted and neat.

Everything must have links.