American attack aftermath: Pakistan declares attack a 'plot'

[blain2]

You can 'demand' but without internal stability & unity no one will take your 'demand' seriously. Unfortunately the current state Pakistan finds itself in.

I cant speak for Cheng, but when even the citizens of Pakistan are not united and don't respect the institutions, expecting that same respect from foreigners is wrong.

In other words, you need not even demand anything. Just develop your nation internally and the respect will automatically come without you even demanding it.

Pakistan is as united or divided as any other country in the World. Its just that many other countries do not have as many external factors to cater to as Pakistan does.

What most Pakistanis agree upon is that Pakistan cannot be made into the sacrificial lamb and give up all her regional interests just because the Americans decide otherwise. There is consensus on that and the future Pakistani stance would be much more mindful of the feelings that people have and the government will use this perception amongst its constituency to frame future policies.

 

[sachin@india]

Sorry to interrupt you guys but I have a question regarding the operational capabilities of Pakistani forces. The attack was carried for more than two hours. why there was no reinforcement and where was PAF who said recently said that they have made more than 5500 sorties in tribal area of Pakistan ?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

@ AZ I also fear a ban for supporting your views on Pak-UAE relations.

well on the whole, relations are good....there's a lot of cooperation and mutual gains in the relationship

but there are issues where our interests are not only divergent --but they are actually clashing (e.g. Gwadar and stability in Iranian and Pakistani Balochistan)


Shamsi Air Base thing has always been surrounded in mystery, and caused confusions (even to me)....all the concerned should clarify their position to the public. Public isn't stupid -well not as stupid as they think at least

 

[VCheng]

Talking is fine. There are limitations to what Pakistan can do but we need to continue voicing our disagreement and protesting over this serious instigation.

Pakistan is doing what she can to respond. However a military response is not feasible and Pakistan needs to carry on with the current policy of not giving the ISAF/NATO a reason to ingress into Pakistan.

............................

Pakistan is already earning respect by saying no to the diktats. ................

Agreed, but saying "no" to the diktats would have credence only if it remains a "no", without buckling at the knees, wouldn't you say?

Why should Pakistan do only one or the other?

Pakistan should 'demand, argue and campaign for change' along with 'more tangible changes and hard work', domestically and internationally.

Why are you so opposed to Pakistan (or any country) campaigning for change while also seeking to strengthen itself? They are not mutually exclusive tasks.

Agreed. I am not opposed to a campaign for changes; you and I only disagree on where the change should start. I say it should begin at home, which won't happen for the foreseeable future, while you say the international community should be the first to change, which it won't.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Exactly it is all the more reason to work towards achieving stability internally and not just put the blame on others and sit back waiting for the respect to come.

No its not a hand-in-hand process, a semblance of the former is needed for the latter. You have plenty of examples around like China.

So what is your point in arguing with me?

My criticism was of VC's argument that Pakistan should not try to 'campaign, demand and argue' for change. I never argued that Pakistan should not 'work hard and improve its domestic environment'.

 

[pakdefender]

Should push comes to shove , we have enough capability both conventional , unconventional to cause serious damage to American led NATO forces in Afghanistan.

Keeping the supply lines shut indefinitly and publicaly following through on kicking out americans from Shamsi is vital for restoration on trust in the eyes of the public. This is VITAL!!

Killing as many NATO or American troops as we have lost is the right thing do and it must be done.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Agreed. I am not opposed to a campaign for changes; you and I only disagree on where the change should start. I say it should begin at home, which won't happen for the foreseeable future, while you say the international community should be the first to change, which it won't.

I don't think one has to be before the other - you are correct the change on the domestic front may not happen any time soon, but that is no reason to also stop campaigning for change in the international community.

 

[sachin@india]

pakistan should take her case to UN. there are lot of countries who are sympathetic to pakistan on that issue. A diplomatic offensive is needed.

 

[slytherin]

Should push comes to shove , we have enough capability both conventional , unconventional to cause serious damage to American led NATO forces in Afghanistan.

Keeping the supply lines shut indefinitly and publicaly following through on kicking out americans from Shamsi is vital for restoration on trust in the eyes of the public. This is VITAL!!

Killing as many NATO or American troops as we have lost is the right thing do and it must be done.

and u are not thinking about the effect it will have on pakistan???

 

[VCheng]

I don't think one has to be before the other - you are correct the change on the domestic front may not happen any time soon, but that is no reason to also stop campaigning for change in the international community.

As long as you realize that the international community works in patently unfair and amoral ways, I have no problem with your stance, Sir.

 

[SQ8]

The current stance seems to be having some effect.
By overtly reacting with emotional effect(supply route closed, base cleared out..etc) the message to the world is being sent of drawing a line. Meanwhile.. covert acquiescence by the GoP on waiting for an investigation is keeping the thing going out of control(on a relative scale anyway).
For all the Brouhaha this episode may eventually end up the same way the RD episode did.. question is, how long before dissent starts to form in the military ranks?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

As long as you realize that the international community works in patently unfair and amoral ways, I have no problem with your stance, Sir.

While I can 'recognize the ground realities of international geo-politics', I do not have to 'accept' them.

 

[pakdefender]

and u are not thinking about the effect it will have on pakistan???

obviously we have to take the effects on Pakistan into account but a loss of 100,000 soldiers in a matter of days will cause unprecedented damage to the US so much so that it will no longer be in a position to effectively boss around the world and I assure you there is enough hatred against NATO and US forces building up that doing whatever it take to bring them down is not unthinkable

 

[Dil Pakistan]

I have gone through the pages of the thread since it was started. I have to say that the thread is full of (cheap) emotions, comments that Kayani is a weak general and American poodle etc etc. Probably, the most sensible analysis/comment was from a Chinese friend who tried show the picture of reasons behind this attack(i.e. what NATO/US wants to achieve).

They want to achieve:

1. Push the PA behind the lines they are protecting at moment which will result in teritorial gains for US

2. If they push PA back they can make inroads and filter more terrorists inside Pakistan and create mayhem inside Pakistan.

Kayani has wisely not shown unnecessary over reaction to the whole situation (however deeply painful it may have been for him). He has focussed himself on gathering intelligence, information, analyzing the situation and creating Pakistan's counter response. As a general this is what he expected to do.

This attack is very well planned, thought and executed. It may have far reaching consequences in the region. It may also be a strike to create response from PA and then (using it as an excuse) launch a bigger strike.

PA leadership has done very well.

 

[VCheng]

While I can 'recognize the ground realities of international geo-politics', I do not have to 'accept' them.

Of course, I understand the difference between recognition and acceptance, hence my careful wording.